Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 10:17:37 GMT -5
There are two people in a SM. We accept the treatment. The real question to ask yourself is why do you stay in a toxic relationship, not why is my spouse dysfunctional. It's pathetic that we have to beg for crumbs of affection. Why would someone submit themselves to this treatment? If we were healthy to begin with, then we would have left a long time ago. I realize there are cases of marriages that do not fit this.
When I truly started to look at my role in marriage, then I realized I was just as unhealthy as my refuser. The truth hurts but better to face it then realize it when it's too late. I would encourage everyone here to begin with yourself. I'm not telling you to be hard on yourself, just honest.
I'm very thankful for this forum. It was a life saver for me. I realized that SM go nowhere unless someone changes. If you do not change, get ready for your next sexless relationship. More than likely you'll repeat the same patterns with your next spouse.
If you want a healthy happy marriage then you need to become healthy and happy yourself. When I was younger and even now, I kept myself in shape. I liked women who were physically fit. I can not expect to have a woman who takes good care of herself physically if I do not do the same. Likewise, I can not expect a healthy emotional woman, if I'm not healthy emotionally.
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Post by novembercomingfire on Jan 15, 2017 11:54:46 GMT -5
There are two people in a SM. We accept the treatment. The real question to ask yourself is why do you stay in a toxic relationship, not why is my spouse dysfunctional. It's pathetic that we have to beg for crumbs of affection. Why would someone submit themselves to this treatment? If we were healthy to begin with, then we would have left a long time ago. I realize there are cases of marriages that do not fit this. When I truly started to look at my role in marriage, then I realized I was just as unhealthy as my refuser. The truth hurts but better to face it then realize it when it's too late. I would encourage everyone here to begin with yourself. I'm not telling you to be hard on yourself, just honest. I'm very thankful for this forum. It was a life saver for me. I realized that SM go nowhere unless someone changes. If you do not change, get ready for your next sexless relationship. More than likely you'll repeat the same patterns with your next spouse. If you want a healthy happy marriage then you need to become healthy and happy yourself. When I was younger and even now, I kept myself in shape. I liked women who were physically fit. I can not expect to have a woman who takes good care of herself physically if I do not do the same. Likewise, I can not expect a healthy emotional woman, if I'm not healthy emotionally. Excellent! Thank you. |
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Post by Lithium92 on Jan 15, 2017 11:59:52 GMT -5
In the early stages, 'why' does matter - do they hate you? Is sex painful? Is it a hormone issue? Are you a crap lover? - all these things can be fixed, with buy-in from the refuser. The 'why' affects how likely they are to want to do anything about it. But once you know they won't/can't do anything about it, it doesn't matter.
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Post by beachguy on Jan 15, 2017 13:25:19 GMT -5
In the early stages, 'why' does matter - do they hate you? Is sex painful? Is it a hormone issue? Are you a crap lover? - all these things can be fixed, with buy-in from the refuser. The 'why' affects how likely they are to want to do anything about it. But once you know they won't/can't do anything about it, it doesn't matter. Excellent summary |
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endthegame
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Age Range: 46-50
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Post by endthegame on Jan 15, 2017 13:31:30 GMT -5
I found the why years ago. Changed Fuck all. For what it's worth I think searching for the why is an essential step in extracting oneself from a SM. It's a process, you search for it, try to fix it, then give up. The quicker that happens the better as this releases you to move to the. Next phase.
Just my opinion.
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Post by lakeside4003 on Jan 15, 2017 13:47:10 GMT -5
thanks telecaster, that was the main purpose of my query about this. If they/we are not going to change, why doesn't matter - but it does help to better understand, perhaps emphasize, or be more introspective and develop a strategy that is clear(at least to ourselves) and hopefully to them. I'm not seeking to punish my wife or blame her, but as I've told my therapist many times - I owe it to myself, my wife, and children to know that I've thoroughly investigated this from all angles.
Now that I better understand my wife's perspectives (hey, we now live in a world of denial of facts,'fake news' and false equivalencies), it's much easier to feel that I've come to the right decisions for me.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 15, 2017 18:32:57 GMT -5
Why the "Refuser" ? It has been so long neither of us are even a "Demander." It is just radio silence in the passion/romance/intimacy realm and has been for a LONG TIME.
Maybe I am in a deeper level of total disfunction because my wife and I are so Platonic now and for years neither of us are Refusers because neither of us are Demanders (say sex average 1 per 9 months for 10 years).
Years ago she said she had a lower libido and thought sex once every 2 weeks was enough. I was aiming for once a day. I "outsourced" sex after that - so I guess she was the Refuser going back 10 years or so.
Now I just had an eiphany because I fell madly in love with one of my Outourcers - we are madly in love with each other - madly being the key word - the passion is overwhelming. I am this close to running off but I think of my children.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 20:43:33 GMT -5
sunniedays: "Maybe they're refusing because you call them refusers. Just sayin'. Technically, it's an accurate description, because they are 'refusing' to engage in sex every time their partner wants to. But come on, it's pretty much a derogatory name. Would you want to be referred to as 'demander' by the person who was supposed to love you?" Actually a lot of refusers do tell us how "demanding" we are. And "refuser" sounds better, in my opinion, than "frigid b-----" or "limp dick."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 21:00:02 GMT -5
And, back on topic:
IMHO, when you first notice the problem, it's worth it to think about "why" - just in case your deal is really not an ILIASM shithole, but simply a jaded marriage; or maybe you have a solvable problem. Many problems are solvable. The issue here is, are both people willing to do what they need to do to solve it?
I tried to find out "why" and my refuser kept insisting that it was his health. However, he was not willing to do the things he needed to do in order to overcome the health problems.
I happen to know that people with all kinds of serious health problems and outright disabilities can have a decent sex life - if they want to.
My guy's health problems were not nearly bad enough to qualify as a disability; and even if they were - re-read what I said in the previous paragraph.
They can if they want to. They just don't want to.
After a while, I no longer cared "why," and I just wanted to get unstuck and have a better life, somehow.
I will say that I like where I live better (I moved about 80 miles away) and I think I have better job opportunities here; I have had some ups and downs career-wise, but on the whole my career is in better shape than it was when I joined ILIASM on EP about 4 years ago.
My love life? Meh. I am dating a guy, but I don't feel quite right about it. My brain is on board with this - I don't really have a good reason to break up with him. He gets on my nerves and I'm not turned on by him. But, I have to break up with him....or I will (ironically) be a refuser.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 0:45:05 GMT -5
I think I'm one of a very few 'Refusers' on here. This is a brief description of why I refuse.
It took me years of therapy to get an inkling why I would start to suffer from sexual dysfunction every time I got involved in an emotionally intimate relationship. I dated for over 20 years and no relationship lasted more than a few weeks- a month tops. Sex would be fine until the 3rd or 4th sexual encounter then my body would shut down sexually and I would lose sexual desire for the women. This started when I was a teen and it seemed the more I liked the person the faster the inability to orgasm or get and hold an erection would happen. I always thought I was just easily bored sexually. It didn't bother me too much in my teens, 20's and early 30's as I was very career focused and really wasn't looking for a long term relationship anyway. But in my late 30's I felt I wanted kids and to be part of a family. It was when I met my wife that I began to realize there was more to it than boredom. We spent years going to sex and marital therapists without any luck. Finally a psychiatrist suggested my inability to have sex with my wife or in any emotionally intimate relationship, was due to childhood abuse I suffered. I had never been in love with anyone including with my wife and that too was due to the abuse. My sexual functioning was just fine with strangers, one night stands, paid sex etc. but I haven't sought out these options because my wife decided to stay on in the marriage. I offered her an open marriage but she refused. That was 25 years ago. We get along fine, even run a business together and I can't remember the last time we had an argument. Friends and relatives think we have a perfect marriage but needless to say we both suffer from intense sexual loneliness.
As far as the term "Refuser" goes if my body didn't betray me I'd happily have sex in a long term emotionally intimate relationship. My sexual desire is still very high but in truth I gave up sex to remain married and will be sexless for the second half of my life. I've been on these sexless marriage discussion groups since the early 2000's including Yuku the first one, and REFUSER was always the term used even when the cause of the sexless marriage was physical or psychological illness. Not fair perhaps but there you go.
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Post by baza on Jan 16, 2017 4:25:29 GMT -5
I guess this is the thing.
Taking what you say as read, you have a genuine bona-fide legitimate watertight airtight inarguable ace-in-the-hole reason.
But what I can't see is what difference that makes to the resolution of the situation.
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Post by beachguy on Jan 16, 2017 14:47:35 GMT -5
All WHY chasing should start here: www.asexuality.orgTheir definition of asexuality: "A lack of desire for partnered sex" Occam's Razor says you can usually stop here if that perfectly describes your marriage. Particularly if that always described your marriage, as it did mine. I know most people are very reluctant to accept this quite obvious explanation but it is a quirk of human nature that people tend to retain beliefs in the face of overwhelming evidence. |
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Post by Dan on Jan 16, 2017 15:41:37 GMT -5
I feel that here we usually discourage the "why chasing" when we feel someone is seeking the answer so they can "fix" their spouse's "problem". We discourage it because: - the spouse is not necessarily self-aware enough to even know the "why" himself/herself - it is hard-to-impossible to figure this out without the spouse's help - even once figured out, it doesn't necessarily help reverse/resolve the sexlessness But a little bit of "documenting the pathology" might be a useful cerebral/intellectual exercise for some folks. And it may be of some value to those who come after. For one, it may help us develop a "terminally sexless marriage early-warning system"! |
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Post by DryCreek on Jan 16, 2017 16:20:21 GMT -5
But a little bit of "documenting the pathology" might be a useful cerebral/intellectual exercise for some folks. And it may be of some value to those who come after. Not unlike the coroner documenting the cause of death... it ain't bringing the corpse back to life! And it does seem like a pandemic. Hmmm. The MRSA of marriages. |
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Post by baza on Jan 16, 2017 21:00:25 GMT -5
2nd time in recent days I've seen this excellent analogy Brother DC (apochrypha was the other).
It is very much akin to you thinking you are performing heroic surgery, when in fact you are conducting a post mortem.
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