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Post by eternaloptimism on Jan 18, 2017 14:30:43 GMT -5
We say our refusers for ease. Well, I don't. I don't think I ever did on the old board either. And I don't think Sunnydays does either. So, "we" refers to the group people who characterize those who refer to their spouses as "refusers". And it seems the point of his post is to get people to consider their position on referring to their spouses that way - that it is indeed "easy", but that maybe easy doesn't benefit the situation. Yes. We refers to the people who use the term "refusers" ... not difficult to understand?? The point of MY post was to let sunniedays have my opinion on what she was saying. That is what a discussion board is for. It is of no consequence to me what people would like to refer to their partners as. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 18, 2017 14:32:36 GMT -5
Well fuck me in the ass! I never bloody realised you are a refuser Why does she get to have all the fun? Besides my "equipment" has low mileage! Now with divorce I am refusing my wife all kinds of control that she had as a refuser. |
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Post by lyn on Jan 18, 2017 14:39:02 GMT -5
Well fuck me in the ass! I never bloody realised you are a refuser sunniedaysThat's shown me up for not reading back stories. I see why the attitude now. And I was just going to send you a big virtual hug eternaloptimism - but clearly, you're looking for something that I can't give you. Not that I REFUSE to, I'd just have to have several stiff cocktails and strap something on first. Lol..... I'll NEVER be a refuser...... this is my MANTRA😉 |
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 18, 2017 14:45:38 GMT -5
This is an outlet and a place where "the refused", "the rejected", "the celibate" feel safe to vent anonymously. When I came to it, I didn't necessarily want to vent or feel safe. I wanted to solve my problem, and I wanted advice and experience from others who had a similar problem. Nothing safe about that. "Abuse"! How would one characterize demanding sex from someone who doesn't want it with you? Suppose there is a site somewhere like this one, in which our spouses gather to discuss their "sex-persistents" or "perverts". The term just is used for ease of use to describe their spouses who constantly pester them for sex, instead of sharing in more important priorities. Would the term, which is only for ease of use, promote the kind of introspection and self-agency that would be effective in achieving their goals? |
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 18, 2017 14:49:04 GMT -5
The point of MY post was to let sunniedays have my opinion on what she was saying. That is what a discussion board is for. Good! That is precisely what this is, as well. |
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 18, 2017 15:03:30 GMT -5
This is an outlet and a place where "the refused", "the rejected", "the celibate" feel safe to vent anonymously. When I came to it, I didn't necessarily want to vent or feel safe. I wanted to solve my problem, and I wanted advice and experience from others who had a similar problem. Nothing safe about that. "Abuse"! How would one characterize demanding sex from someone who doesn't want it with you? Suppose there is a site somewhere like this one, in which our spouses gather to discuss their "sex-persistents" or "perverts". The term just is used for ease of use to describe their spouses who constantly pester them for sex, instead of sharing in more important priorities. Would the term, which is only for ease of use, promote the kind of introspection and self-agency that would be effective in achieving their goals? When I found EP and I shared my story I was seeking advice too and man it was very hurtful to hear some of it. The truth and the reality of my situation. At the time June 2014 I wasn't emotionally strong or ready but I got stronger. By safe I refer to the anonymity and the fact that it's a supportive and not judgemental group. As far as "abuse" - I can only speak for myself but I did not pester or abuse my H for sex. I did provide him with a great comfortable life, clean house, bills paid, meals cooked, kids chauffeured, etc. I would ask politely once or twice a year if we could have sex tonight, he said maybe then nothing or we laid in bed and I'd grab his hand and put it on me and he said leave me alone I'm trying to sleep. I believe we on here are actually too kind and too nice and probably I should have pestered him more. I do stand by a spouse neglecting the person they are supposed to be intimate with as mental and emotional abuse. In the end my ex admitted he was an asshole to me, straight from the horses mouth. Every marriage and every situation is different and in the end I ultimately take responsibility for tolerating it for so long but where was I going? I had babies and a job with no raise for 7 years. I got out as soon as I possibly could. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 18, 2017 15:08:29 GMT -5
Words mean things. It's all about the context. Taken out of context a word can be spun and manipulated.
Kind of, like Lucy holding the football.
Communication, even in it's least form is about control. I prefer to call my W. a manipulative controller. That is also followed with an example or a story, a reason, a lesson, or a description. Manipulative control was not just pulled out of thin air, I first read about it in the book "Boundaries".
A few days before pulling the plug , I began referring to my W, as STBX. After the divorce will come the term ex. This is all after 2200 posts, not including how many others I read.
I won't be loosing any sleep over it.
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Post by Lithium92 on Jan 18, 2017 15:18:12 GMT -5
Sunniedays
I can see why you get offended at the term 'refuser', and I can see why people use it. It reflects the hurt in the situation, and mostly the hurt on the non-refuser's side comes at least as much from our partner's refusal to empathise or make any effort to compromise as refusing sex. That's about a lack of caring, and that's why it hurts. You're not refusing either of those things, and it must hurt when you're lumped in with people who are. This kind of situation is why I push back against ILIASM's shibboleth that the 'why' doesn't matter. It does. There are people who can't do anything about their lack of libido, but would if they could. There are people who could at least try, but clearly don't give enough of a shit. Those two things spill over into the rest of the relationship in very different ways, generally reflecting the reasons behind the lack of libido. 'Why' does matter, for the wider relationship and therefore to decisions about staying or going.
My wife's said a lot of the things you've mentioned and is in a similar position - a medical condition plus menopause nuking her libido, and she hates that it causes me pain, but in the end, has no idea what to do about it. In her case, there's something aspergerish going on as well when it comes to emotional connection. But at least one poster isn't seething with resentment (well, not any more) and convinced that all partners who don't want to have sex are evil, manipulative and selfish.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 18, 2017 15:23:40 GMT -5
I would ask politely once or twice a year if we could have sex tonight, he said maybe then nothing or we laid in bed and I'd grab his hand and put it on me and he said leave me alone I'm trying to sleep. I share that experience and pain. I also, in the years without, experimented with asking once or twice across a period of 5 months, and STILL was characterized by my wife at the time to our counselor and to me as insatiable. So, with respect to the words we use and how they denote narratives that pin us to our own lack of agency, evidence suggests that she would post on this board's equivalent - I Live With An Insatiable Spouse. She would refer to me as her "Pesterer" and the board of like-minded people would use such code and language to frame the discussion within those brackets. Discussions would be fixed on "How do I get my spouse to stop bothering me about sex?" and support would entail shaming spouses for unreasonable and unwanted demands, even staking the marriage and children on it. |
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 18, 2017 15:44:58 GMT -5
I would ask politely once or twice a year if we could have sex tonight, he said maybe then nothing or we laid in bed and I'd grab his hand and put it on me and he said leave me alone I'm trying to sleep. I share that experience and pain. I also, in the years without, experimented with asking once or twice across a period of 5 months, and STILL was characterized by my wife at the time to our counselor and to me as insatiable. So, with respect to the words we use and how they denote narratives that pin us to our own lack of agency, evidence suggests that she would post on this board's equivalent - I Live With An Insatiable Spouse. She would refer to me as her "Pesterer" and the board of like-minded people would use such code and language to frame the discussion within those brackets. Discussions would be fixed on "How do I get my spouse to stop bothering me about sex?" and support would entail shaming spouses for unreasonable and unwanted demands, even staking the marriage and children on it. I think it's fair for them to have a forum for them to vent to. The bottom line, the reality of the situation is incompatibility. I wouldn't categorize us wanting and asking for sex with our spouse as abuse though because it's not normal to have a celibate marriage, whereas it is normal to want sex with your spouse and I did for 21 years until the day came and I no longer did because I was out of the fog thanks to EP and I put myself first. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 16:47:19 GMT -5
sunniedays, for a person who doesn't want to offend anybody, you are awfully offended about one little word that doesn't even contain a curse word or an insult. And regarding your statement that we "choose" to stay: Yes, many people do choose to stay for varying lengths of time. Maybe we still love the person, we take their reasons for refusing seriously, and we want to stick around and try to change that situation, so that we can be happy again. I was in that group for a long time. Or, maybe we have sunk a lot into the relationship, by having children together, mingled finances, etc. Or, maybe because we live in a culture that's run by people who think sex is dirty/unimportant/etc., it's very difficult for people to leave a relationship that looks pretty good on the outside - where the problems happen behind closed doors. We're afraid of the social disapproval we would get for breaking up with someone over "only" sex. Let me ask you this: You won't have sex with your husband. This is utterly repellant to you and you just don't want to do it. But - since sex IS part of marriage - why do YOU choose to stay with HIM? That's one thing I never understand about refusers. If we're so ugly, fat, smelly, stupid, boring, or whatever that you just can't stand to have sex with us - if we're that terrible - why don't the refusers "just leave"?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 16:57:23 GMT -5
But rarely - rarely do I read anything where OP takes responsibility for choosing this person in the first place. I already told you my wife fucked my brains out on our first date, establishing herself as a VERY sexual person, and continued to do so until the wedding day. The next day she left me high and dry and sexless. What part of DECEIVED do you not understand? How much blame should I take for my STBX DECEIVING me?  I really have no further interest in arguing this. I will continue to use conventional terminology here and I suspect most or all the others here will too. Yes, I am quite pissed about it all. And yes, things were quite toxic when I left. And, in my situation: yes, I CHOSE my partner. But at that time, we had a great sex life and were compatible in so many other ways. I never called him a "refuser" until he started to refuse. Really, so many men bitch about their wives wanting to change them. Well, I *didn't* want my man to change. I liked him the way he was! |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 18, 2017 16:59:23 GMT -5
I already told you my wife fucked my brains out on our first date, establishing herself as a VERY sexual person, and continued to do so until the wedding day. The next day she left me high and dry and sexless. What part of DECEIVED do you not understand? How much blame should I take for my STBX DECEIVING me? I really have no further interest in arguing this. I will continue to use conventional terminology here and I suspect most or all the others here will too. Yes, I am quite pissed about it all. And yes, things were quite toxic when I left. And, in my situation: yes, I CHOSE my partner. But at that time, we had a great sex life and were compatible in so many other ways. I never called him a "refuser" until he started to refuse. Really, so many men bitch about their wives wanting to change them. Well, I *didn't* want my man to change. I liked him the way he was! SK your story always breaks my heart. Always. |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 18, 2017 17:03:33 GMT -5
sunniedays, for a person who doesn't want to offend anybody, you are awfully offended about one little word that doesn't even contain a curse word or an insult. And regarding your statement that we "choose" to stay: Yes, many people do choose to stay for varying lengths of time. Maybe we still love the person, we take their reasons for refusing seriously, and we want to stick around and try to change that situation, so that we can be happy again. I was in that group for a long time. Or, maybe we have sunk a lot into the relationship, by having children together, mingled finances, etc. Or, maybe because we live in a culture that's run by people who think sex is dirty/unimportant/etc., it's very difficult for people to leave a relationship that looks pretty good on the outside - where the problems happen behind closed doors. We're afraid of the social disapproval we would get for breaking up with someone over "only" sex. Let me ask you this: You won't have sex with your husband. This is utterly repellant to you and you just don't want to do it. But - since sex IS part of marriage - why do YOU choose to stay with HIM? That's one thing I never understand about refusers. If we're so ugly, fat, smelly, stupid, boring, or whatever that you just can't stand to have sex with us - if we're that terrible - why don't the refusers "just leave"? Actually a lot do. They get tired of their spouses pestering them for sex. But most people here don't do that. So the refusers get to live in wedded bliss (more or less). While we suffer mostly in silence, which I now know was a huge mistake. For me. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 17:09:55 GMT -5
This is an outlet and a place where "the refused", "the rejected", "the celibate" feel safe to vent anonymously. When I came to it, I didn't necessarily want to vent or feel safe. I wanted to solve my problem, and I wanted advice and experience from others who had a similar problem. Nothing safe about that. "Abuse"! How would one characterize demanding sex from someone who doesn't want it with you? Suppose there is a site somewhere like this one, in which our spouses gather to discuss their "sex-persistents" or "perverts". The term just is used for ease of use to describe their spouses who constantly pester them for sex, instead of sharing in more important priorities. Would the term, which is only for ease of use, promote the kind of introspection and self-agency that would be effective in achieving their goals? Since I'm not being constantly pestered for sex by my man, I don't go to message boards or groups intended to support people who think that their partners are perverts. Therefore, I don't risk getting my feelings hurt by their terminology. I might lurk in such a group, to try to understand how the people on the other side feel. But I would not go to one and then argue with people to try to justify my position - or take exception to a fairly mild vocabulary term used for convenience. Now, anybody is allowed to come to this group and participate. That's one of the principles here. But I for one generally don't hang out and talk a lot in places where I'm outnumbered by people on the opposite side of some issue. You may have a higher tolerance for arguing and aggravation than I do. |
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