|
Post by jaimereyes on Aug 5, 2024 16:05:08 GMT -5
Yes, that is probably true. She would like to go back into therapy but I doubt she would bring up intimacy and sex in her sessions.
|
|
|
Post by mirrororchid on Aug 7, 2024 19:18:14 GMT -5
First, did the wife tell you who was in charge of your orgasm? Is it just yours or do they have a portfolio? Are they accepting new clients? Do they take insurance? I'd feel more sympathetic for Mrs. Jaimereyes' autoimmune frigidity if she'd been frisky beforehand and I might identify with your misgivings. Instead, I'm just annoyed. The parade of excuses/rationales/reasons needs to have an end. Even if true, we are to love one another in sickness and in health. We've had seventeen years of your loving her ins sickness, how might she reciprocate for a normal, healthy, red-blooded husband? Did you get contact info for the orgasm consultant? The bonding with the kid is a good enough thing, but many couples replace carnal affection with their spouses with obsession over offspring and mistake it for healthy family life. Your story is a common one. Sadly common. The bonding with the kid may suit you well if you're going to tell the Mrs. you're done with the non-censensual celibacy. When you're ready to pull the pin on the grenade, close ties to your daughter and civil respectful service to the wife can give you the best hope for a graceful exit from celibacy, be it opening up, or divorce. (or if planets align, remission) Basically, that I was in charge of my orgasm. However, one time she overheard me masturbating in the bathroom and said not to ever make it so obvious again because it was gross. That said, the door was closed and the fan was on to be more discreet. She apologized later and said masturbation was natural. But she said what she said. This was approximately 10 years ago. Yes, this is where I second guess myself regarding the impact of her autoimmune concerns. On one hand, she doesn't always feel great and I want to be understanding of that. However, she also seems to be well enough to do pilates and do other forms of exercise. Last week I was watching TV in the evening and she walked in and said that she felt bad that we weren't having sex and knows that it's hard on me. But then she basically said that not much can be done and maybe it'll get better. She said exercise is the only thing that makes her feel better mentally and physically. I said that's understandable and sex is also a form of physical activity and something we can share. She said that's true, but she didn't sound like she believed it. It has been fairly consistent that the only way a refusing wife changes is through credible threat to monogamy. She won't change until she has to. That may involve filing for divorce, deciding to be sexual again, or consenting (at least tacitly) to your outsourcing. Or, you'll learn to accept celibacy. If that is an option for you, exploring it and embracing it early beats false hope. If you decide that is NOT a possibility, then progress towards finding a new lover will put an end to your frustration and is best begun as quickly as possible. Hoping she'll have a change of heart has not yet been documented without that credible threat. Refusing husbands have been persuaded to resume sexual interaction with refused wives.
|
|
|
Post by sundayblue0071 on Aug 15, 2024 0:38:15 GMT -5
Sorry if you've covered this. Do you share the bedroom? IS it possible to spilt off part of the house as a separate living quarters? Is there any appeal in that? Or does it too closely resemble the "broken home" you're wanting to avoid and doesn't fulfill the key function. (intimate companionship) A secure in-law suite with separate entrance might afford privacy for romantic trysts with a new friend. I advocate polyamory rather than divorce to help with coerced celibacy. If you divorce, you pay a lot of money to lawyers and you're still alone. Then the next chick wants to marry you and five years later, you may be right back where you started. We do share a bedroom. The most we've accomplished is hold hands, or a brief hug. I know my wife knows that I desire and want sex. But she's dealing with issues that just make it really hard for her. I'm hoping she will try hormone therapy and she has an appointment with a doctor to review and discuss. It could yield some benefits. But I also want to be physically attracted to her again. And right now, I'm just not. She gained too much weight, no thanks to some pills prescribed for her some years ago to help her with her bipolar issues. I sure as hell cannot afford divorce so that ain't gonna happen. I love your idea of separate living quarters. We have a very large room in the downstairs area that's empty. It's been cleaned up and it doesn't look half bad. It has its own toilet and shower. I've thought about sleeping down there but whenever I broach the subject or say I'm going to sleep downstairs tonight she gets upset and feels like I've thrown in the towel on our marriage. I wish we had a secure in-law suite with separate entrance. I"d love to meet a new friend. But if my wife gets whiff of any of that, knowing her, she'd probably insist upon a divorce, PERIOD. It just sucks with the situation I'm in. But I do appreciate your suggestions.
|
|
|
Post by mirrororchid on Aug 19, 2024 6:20:32 GMT -5
We do share a bedroom. The most we've accomplished is hold hands, or a brief hug. I know my wife knows that I desire and want sex. But she's dealing with issues that just make it really hard for her. I'm hoping she will try hormone therapy and she has an appointment with a doctor to review and discuss. It could yield some benefits. But I also want to be physically attracted to her again. And right now, I'm just not. She gained too much weight, no thanks to some pills prescribed for her some years ago to help her with her bipolar issues. I sure as hell cannot afford divorce so that ain't gonna happen. I love your idea of separate living quarters. We have a very large room in the downstairs area that's empty. It's been cleaned up and it doesn't look half bad. It has its own toilet and shower. I've thought about sleeping down there but whenever I broach the subject or say I'm going to sleep downstairs tonight she gets upset and feels like I've thrown in the towel on our marriage. I wish we had a secure in-law suite with separate entrance. I'd love to meet a new friend. But if my wife gets whiff of any of that, knowing her, she'd probably insist upon a divorce, PERIOD. It just sucks with the situation I'm in. But I do appreciate your suggestions. Separate entrances can be built in to some (most?) basements. Your finances may not be able to deal with that, but... how bad do you want it? Not that much by the sounds of things. I remind people, if your refuser divorces you because you refused to be celibate, are they ready to explain that to anyone who asks? I'm suspicious many refusers are hoping their spouse has a secret affair and gives them the excuse for the divorce they want, but cannot admit. Yes, your wife has difficulties. Is it okay if her difficulties last until you die? You are expected to love her in sickness, is she loving you in health? That second part doesn't get discussed. She is obligated to vigorously pursue health or release you to live your healthy life some of the time. You say she's pursuing actual medical measures? Cool. That's a good reason to keep status quo. Bipolar I or II? Bipolar II is a bullshit diagnosis. It's just depression. I'm wondering whether sugar cravings and consumption is the mechanism by which some antidepressants relieve misery. If depressed people ate a bunch of fatty, sugary, delicious food, would their mood be similarly improved without the pill? As for the weight gain though? Losing weight is underappreciated as an accomplishment as well as keeping it off. A huge part of marital love is acceptance; of past mistresses and current circumstances / body shape. You may want to accept her changes as an unhappy turn of fortune, not any act of hostility, indifference, or carelessness. Weight gain over time is very difficult to avoid. Do you ask too much? If she were her current size but enthusiastically amorously affectionate, could she not be sexy? It may be more attitude than appearance that turns you off.
|
|
|
Post by lonelyhubby on Aug 19, 2024 6:33:09 GMT -5
Withholders always rely on their partners good nature and love for them to hide their secret from the world. They never want to admit they are withholding affection and sex, put on a happy facade for the public and their family. I have considered just blurting out at family functions exactly what's going on and for how long and to just lay it out WHY I am pursuing a divorce (not yet, but have thought about it). Just to see everyone turn to her and start asking WTF are you doing?
|
|
|
Post by sundayblue0071 on Aug 22, 2024 23:51:12 GMT -5
<Yes, your wife has difficulties. Is it okay if her difficulties last until you die? You are expected to love her in sickness, is she loving you in health? That second part doesn't get discussed. She is obligated to vigorously pursue health or release you to live your healthy life some of the time. You say she's pursuing actual medical measures? Cool. That's a good reason to keep status quo. As for the weight gain though? Losing weight is underappreciated as an accomplishment as well as keeping it off. A huge part of marital love is acceptance; of past mistresses and current circumstances / body shape. You may want to accept her changes as an unhappy turn of fortune, not any act of hostility, indifference, or carelessness. Weight gain over time is very difficult to avoid. Do you ask too much? If she were her current size but enthusiastically amorously affectionate, could she not be sexy? It may be more attitude than appearance that turns you off.> You make an excellent point about loving someone in sickness AND in health. And my wife is just not loving me in health. At least, not loving me with the intimacy I crave. It's not even sex. My wife and I can't sit together and hug one another closely. She's just too big. She weighs 250+ pounds right now. I mean, she's heavy. Sitting on a couch with a heavy person has its limitations. I'm 174 pounds and the difference in our body sizes is significant. She didn't always weigh that much but like I said, a combination of lousy genetics, unfortunate consequences of mental illness type medication and she just put on a lot of weight.You make a great point about how bodies do change over time, as we age. I'm not in disagreement about that. I've lost muscle mass around my chest and arms; I've grown lazy spending so much time raising a child and working and just don't have the energy to work out anymore. So I'm slim, and developing man boobies again when I used to look like a lean, mean, muscular fighting machine! But if my wife doesn't inspire me, then how am I going to inspire myself? Blah. At 56, I've sort of given up right now. My daughter is 7 and is at the age where lots of parenting is still required.But I will say this. If my wife had a sex drive, one as strong and alive as mine, and kept wanting to have sex, told me how much she misses sex, wanted more intimacy with me and expressed it, I think it is quite possible I could have accepted her ballooning weight because she still loved me the way I want to be loved. But even before she put on all of that weight, her sex drive was dropping and didn't nearly match my own. I should have divorced my wife long before we had a child. I think I would have been happier. But then I've always hated dating and I just wasn't meeting any women where mutual attraction occurred and there was chemistry. I have been hurt. I don't need a pity party. Just that, I know I'm "one of the good ones." And I always felt that I deserved a counterpart who really fulfilled my needs as I was able to fulfill her needs. My dad always said you only need ONE. But of course, he lucked out and met a woman who followed him on his path to a very successful life and achievement of the American dream. I"m just fucking MAD! At myself, and who I've become. I"m not the man I've dreamed about since I was 7. I've always wanted to be smarter, faster than my competitors. And instead, I'm not as smart and slower. I HATE IT! I'm not at peace with myself. And I hate seeing more "successful" people. I don't feel successful. I feel like I'm getting by and that's it. SEX is this sort of crucible where you either embrace it and find a way to satisfy it or it weighs you down and eats at your soul. I waste too much time and energy on sex. I could be accomplishing more in my life.
|
|
|
Post by mirrororchid on Aug 26, 2024 5:58:48 GMT -5
...My wife and I can't sit together and hug one another closely. She's just too big. She weighs 250+ pounds right now. I mean, she's heavy. Sitting on a couch with a heavy person has its limitations....You make a great point about how bodies do change over time, as we age.... I've lost muscle mass around my chest and arms; I've grown lazy spending so much time raising a child and working and just don't have the energy to work out anymore. So I'm slim, and developing man boobies again when I used to look like a lean, mean, muscular fighting machine! But if my wife doesn't inspire me, then how am I going to inspire myself? Blah. At 56, I've sort of given up right now....If my wife had a sex drive, one as strong and alive as mine, and kept wanting to have sex, told me how much she misses sex, wanted more intimacy with me and expressed it, I think it is quite possible I could have accepted her ballooning weight ... I'm just fucking MAD! At myself, and who I've become. I'm not the man I've dreamed about since I was 7. I've always wanted to be smarter, faster than my competitors. And instead, I'm not as smart and slower. I HATE IT! I'm not at peace with myself. And I hate seeing more "successful" people. I don't feel successful. I feel like I'm getting by and that's it. SEX is this sort of crucible where you either embrace it and find a way to satisfy it or it weighs you down and eats at your soul. I waste too much time and energy on sex. I could be accomplishing more in my life. Neither of us can be where we know we could have without mistakes and obstacles we made and faced. We're both 56. We can be closer to acceptable and self-acceptance if we make progress. Some advice here at ILIASM is to begin addressing sexless marriage and possible future separation by building a life that does not include your refusing/denying spouse. In the past I have had a workout wingman with which we would share our efforts to get into better physical shape. Would you be interested in doing something like that? I'd start a thread and anyone could join. Accountability to others helps some folks achieve goals they otherwise won't. I've told myself to get my body back into toned condition, but there's always something more fun or important to do. Maybe that's what you're up against. 250 lb. is high. Married my wife at 280. She's lost 60 pounds but she still hates her body. That second part is bigger than the number on the scale. I'd guess spooning on the couch or bed while catching a movie may get her scared of intimacy? Or the couch isn't wide enough, even if you ditch the cushions? A second page could be a place where folks plan their new lives. Such a topic does not seem to have a home yet. Where did you want to be. Can you get closer to that and, by consequence, less "MAD!" Finding your status, given your obstacles, worthy of self-acceptance. Not reaching lifetime goals may dim in importance if some (new?) long term goals can be executed well. An appreciation of the global enlistment of the finest minds has brought me melancholy perspective. I was worried by my inadequacy. Even at the levels I achieve, arguably enviable to most of the world (living in a modern Western state, just by itself, is an enormous stroke of luck), they pale in comparison to the titans of our society in terms of wealth and accomplishment. They are so vastly far behind that I've gone from ambition, to disappointment, to fatalistic. I recognize my advantages are immense, yet the concentration of networking and communication makes such a head start largely immaterial. Most people as great as they are, can only be cogs. Those capable and wishing to be at the levers are either head and shoulders above me, or evil enough to claw their way past their betters to seize power and wealth despite their appropriate endowment. I'm at a place where I am questioning the value, purpose, and impact of much of what I do. I'm not displeased with my tiny mark on the world, but I know it is but a pixel on a 4k Jumbotron. It's enough, but a shred of what I had dreamed of. I can do more still and find comfort in the confidence that the effort will be appreciated by the tiny sliver of humanity that receives my effort.
|
|
|
Post by sundayblue0071 on Aug 29, 2024 22:27:03 GMT -5
<In the past I have had a workout wingman with which we would share our efforts to get into better physical shape. Would you be interested in doing something like that? I'd start a thread and anyone could join. Accountability to others helps some folks achieve goals they otherwise won't. I've told myself to get my body back into toned condition, but there's always something more fun or important to do. Maybe that's what you're up against.>I'm intrigued. Maybe start a new thread? <A second page could be a place where folks plan their new lives. Such a topic does not seem to have a home yet. Where did you want to be. Can you get closer to that and, by consequence, less "MAD!" Finding your status, given your obstacles, worthy of self-acceptance. Not reaching lifetime goals may dim in importance if some (new?) long term goals can be executed well.>I do need to plan a new life. Exactly what that looks like, I'm not exactly sure.
|
|
|
Post by mirrororchid on Sept 2, 2024 6:02:51 GMT -5
<In the past I have had a workout wingman with which we would share our efforts to get into better physical shape. Would you be interested in doing something like that? I'd start a thread and anyone could join. Accountability to others helps some folks achieve goals they otherwise won't. I've told myself to get my body back into toned condition, but there's always something more fun or important to do. Maybe that's what you're up against.>I'm intrigued. Maybe start a new thread? <A second page could be a place where folks plan their new lives. Such a topic does not seem to have a home yet. Where did you want to be. Can you get closer to that and, by consequence, less "MAD!" Finding your status, given your obstacles, worthy of self-acceptance. Not reaching lifetime goals may dim in importance if some (new?) long term goals can be executed well.>I do need to plan a new life. Exactly what that looks like, I'm not exactly sure. lonelytiger has said "Uncle" and wants to plan his exit. I went searching for existing threads the two of you could append. iliasm.org/search/results?captcha_id=captcha_search&where_thread_title=plan&who_only_made_by=0&display_as=1&search=SearchLarry101 journals his plan and attempts to execute (Manosphere/red-pill/Alpha/Beta style jargon in use, brace yourself) [No resolution or success failure result] @sadcreek linked to these:"steps" threads: iliasm.org/thread/4429/sad-disconnectiliasm.org/thread/103/advice-free-first-consultationiliasm.org/thread/4151/big-step“journey” thread: iliasm.org/thread/3061/minusHe also advises:
"One big pointer is to interview 3 attorneys. In most jurisdictions the initial meeting is free. You’ll find each has their own style, and you’ll want to pick one that most matches your intentions. By the 3rd interview, your questions will become much more pointed and you’ll be able to better see the differences between them. Get the name of your wife’s lawyer if she has one, and ask what experience they have working with together. Others have suggested getting referrals from counselors. Among other things ask what you should be watching out for in the months to come, such as hiding assets. And whether there is advantage to being the first to file, and what advantage / disadvantage there is to waiting until the timing is convenient for her. (Depending on jurisdiction, the first to file controls the timeline and can also stall out the process when counter-filing isn’t allowed.)" Baza had recommended the exit plan options of FlashJohn, but didn't say which. Starting a new one is always an option. Finally, I started a list of links for some components of exit plans here.
|
|
|
Post by jerri on Sept 12, 2024 1:20:18 GMT -5
<Yes, your wife has difficulties. Is it okay if her difficulties last until you die? You are expected to love her in sickness, is she loving you in health? That second part doesn't get discussed. She is obligated to vigorously pursue health or release you to live your healthy life some of the time. You say she's pursuing actual medical measures? Cool. That's a good reason to keep status quo. As for the weight gain though? Losing weight is underappreciated as an accomplishment as well as keeping it off. A huge part of marital love is acceptance; of past mistresses and current circumstances / body shape. You may want to accept her changes as an unhappy turn of fortune, not any act of hostility, indifference, or carelessness. Weight gain over time is very difficult to avoid. Do you ask too much? If she were her current size but enthusiastically amorously affectionate, could she not be sexy? It may be more attitude than appearance that turns you off.> You make an excellent point about loving someone in sickness AND in health. And my wife is just not loving me in health. At least, not loving me with the intimacy I crave. It's not even sex. My wife and I can't sit together and hug one another closely. She's just too big. She weighs 250+ pounds right now. I mean, she's heavy. Sitting on a couch with a heavy person has its limitations. I'm 174 pounds and the difference in our body sizes is significant. She didn't always weigh that much but like I said, a combination of lousy genetics, unfortunate consequences of mental illness type medication and she just put on a lot of weight.You make a great point about how bodies do change over time, as we age. I'm not in disagreement about that. I've lost muscle mass around my chest and arms; I've grown lazy spending so much time raising a child and working and just don't have the energy to work out anymore. So I'm slim, and developing man boobies again when I used to look like a lean, mean, muscular fighting machine! But if my wife doesn't inspire me, then how am I going to inspire myself? Blah. At 56, I've sort of given up right now. My daughter is 7 and is at the age where lots of parenting is still required.But I will say this. If my wife had a sex drive, one as strong and alive as mine, and kept wanting to have sex, told me how much she misses sex, wanted more intimacy with me and expressed it, I think it is quite possible I could have accepted her ballooning weight because she still loved me the way I want to be loved. But even before she put on all of that weight, her sex drive was dropping and didn't nearly match my own. I should have divorced my wife long before we had a child. I think I would have been happier. But then I've always hated dating and I just wasn't meeting any women where mutual attraction occurred and there was chemistry. I have been hurt. I don't need a pity party. Just that, I know I'm "one of the good ones." And I always felt that I deserved a counterpart who really fulfilled my needs as I was able to fulfill her needs. My dad always said you only need ONE. But of course, he lucked out and met a woman who followed him on his path to a very successful life and achievement of the American dream. I"m just fucking MAD! At myself, and who I've become. I"m not the man I've dreamed about since I was 7. I've always wanted to be smarter, faster than my competitors. And instead, I'm not as smart and slower. I HATE IT! I'm not at peace with myself. And I hate seeing more "successful" people. I don't feel successful. I feel like I'm getting by and that's it. SEX is this sort of crucible where you either embrace it and find a way to satisfy it or it weighs you down and eats at your soul. I waste too much time and energy on sex. I could be accomplishing more in my life. My husband decided to move out of the master bedroom when I decided to shag another man. Understandable. I told my husband I couldn't go without sex and I would be seeking sex outside of our marriage. Then I sat on th fence over a year. I used a couple of books to educate my husband in polyamory. I spent a lot of time just easing his anxiety... I told him I loved him and wasn't leaving...it was just sex... I spent years squashing fears of abandonment. If you leave the room ease her anxiety before you do. It was perfect for my dear husband because he could now masturbate in his room. If your wifey supports masturbation, tell her you yearn for her, but will be needing your own room for privacy? I told him I was stepping out to have sex, but I would be doing it discretely because he wasn't handling me stepping out very well. Once he left the room out of protest, it gave me freedom to sneak away and get a well deserved shagging with a sexless man! If you think your wife is fat, she knows it, and will push you away. I was able to sit by my mom who weighed somewhere around 325lbs. Start by sitting beside her. Even if it feels like a hug among good friends?
|
|