m76
Full Member
Posts: 119
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Post by m76 on Nov 20, 2023 23:09:48 GMT -5
toughtiger, I agree. It's that other person wanting you and being appreciated that's the key. Miss the feeling of W initiating the sex and wanting me. yesterday at 3:18pm miestas said: Hello Dean DYour wife sounds like mine. There is always an excuse, too much to do, too much stress, etc. The problem is not that I want sex. I can pay for that. What I want is someone to WANT to have sex with me. Who finds me physically attractive. Who sees sex as a way to say they love me. Who wants sex so I can give them something they really want and enjoy because we love each other. If I have to convince someone to have sex with me, it defeats the whole purpose and I usually can’t perform, with or without chemical assistance.Posted by m76yesterday at 3:37pm This. All this.Something I've been searching for, if the best part of sex is knowing how much they want to be with me, is there really anything else that can fill that void?
Seems like all four of you see yourselves rutting like animals with some piece of meat you swiped right on Tinder to get with. Why? If you three gents messaged ToughTiger and she said what she just said, would you response be, "Too bad all we can do is fuck. It'd be nice if I were able to care about you." Toughtiger, are these guys not sounding as though they want to give what you want to receive? If we are limiting ourselves to physical release only, I dare say that's on us. It is not a matter that we cannot get this simple desire fulfilled, it is that we deny it ourselves out of a deference to a neglectful marriage that fails to provide it where a new partner isn't merely willing but longs to provide it. When we see ourselves as only scratching an itch it deprives not just ourselves but prospective partners who want the very same thing. Some ILIASM members declare they want a spouse that provides this deep connection. Getting such a connection from a lover is not acceptable without vow and ring. While I acknowledge the deep seated, visceral need behind this demand for the linkage, I do not yet see a rational rationale and I ponder about my own disposition that finds no such mandate. I may live, survive, and befriend my life partner, Mrs. MirrorOrchid, as she wishes, and bestow passion and lust upon another man's wife whose husband is her BFF (until death do they part.) This had been the plan before my wife's lengthy reset. Yet so many deliberately keep such an arrangement at arm's length. I don't understand. If all it was about was the release, then that's something I can take care of myself. The problem is being with someone that you desperately want the deep connection to, where sex is just one way to help build and maintain that connection. It's been said before here that when people say everything is great except the sex, once you start digging, there's other problems that have been ignored. |
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miestas
Junior Member
Posts: 73 
Age Range: 61-65
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Post by miestas on Nov 21, 2023 0:59:43 GMT -5
Why? If you three gents messaged ToughTiger and she said what she just said, would you response be, "Too bad all we can do is fuck. It'd be nice if I were able to care about you." Toughtiger, are these guys not sounding as though they want to give what you want to receive? If we are limiting ourselves to physical release only, I dare say that's on us. It is not a matter that we cannot get this simple desire fulfilled, it is that we deny it ourselves out of a deference to a neglectful marriage that fails to provide it where a new partner isn't merely willing but longs to provide it. When we see ourselves as only scratching an itch it deprives not just ourselves but prospective partners who want the very same thing. Some ILIASM members declare they want a spouse that provides this deep connection. Getting such a connection from a lover is not acceptable without vow and ring. While I acknowledge the deep seated, visceral need behind this demand for the linkage, I do not yet see a rational rationale and I ponder about my own disposition that finds no such mandate. I may live, survive, and befriend my life partner, Mrs. MirrorOrchid, as she wishes, and bestow passion and lust upon another man's wife whose husband is her BFF (until death do they part.) This had been the plan before my wife's lengthy reset. Yet so many deliberately keep such an arrangement at arm's length. I don't understand. I am obviously taking this post the wrong way, and usually I would just let this slide and say “Meh, you’re entitled to your opinion.” But tonight I am angry, so I have to say, “WTF?” Are you saying that I am being a nitwit because I could be having a loving, caring relationship with someone outside of my marriage while remaining married to my wife? If so, then, yes, you are entitled to your opinion, and I understand what you are saying. I am having deep regret tonight for not leaving when I had the easy chance a few years ago. It’s been a hard night. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Nov 21, 2023 20:15:40 GMT -5
Why? If you three gents messaged ToughTiger and she said what she just said, would you response be, "Too bad all we can do is fuck. It'd be nice if I were able to care about you." Toughtiger, are these guys not sounding as though they want to give what you want to receive? If we are limiting ourselves to physical release only, I dare say that's on us. It is not a matter that we cannot get this simple desire fulfilled, it is that we deny it ourselves out of a deference to a neglectful marriage that fails to provide it where a new partner isn't merely willing but longs to provide it. When we see ourselves as only scratching an itch it deprives not just ourselves but prospective partners who want the very same thing. Some ILIASM members declare they want a spouse that provides this deep connection. Getting such a connection from a lover is not acceptable without vow and ring. While I acknowledge the deep seated, visceral need behind this demand for the linkage, I do not yet see a rational rationale and I ponder about my own disposition that finds no such mandate. I may live, survive, and befriend my life partner, Mrs. MirrorOrchid, as she wishes, and bestow passion and lust upon another man's wife whose husband is her BFF (until death do they part.) This had been the plan before my wife's lengthy reset. Yet so many deliberately keep such an arrangement at arm's length. I don't understand. I am obviously taking this post the wrong way, and usually I would just let this slide and say “Meh, you’re entitled to your opinion.” But tonight I am angry, so I have to say, “WTF?” Are you saying that I am being a nitwit because I could be having a loving, caring relationship with someone outside of my marriage while remaining married to my wife? If so, then, yes, you are entitled to your opinion, and I understand what you are saying. I am having deep regret tonight for not leaving when I had the easy chance a few years ago. It’s been a hard night. Nitwit? Mercy, no. It merely sounded as though everyone felt affair partners could never offer deep connections, or that it was proper to avoid such connections while married. You then seem to say that you find it patently obvious you can care for an affair partner intensely, much as one does a spouse. But then you lament not having left because... why? So you could not just be in that intense caring relationship, but married to them as well? If there are serious flaws in the structure underneath, as m76 says, then yes. No affair will help. As one migrates into the 70s and 80s, sex may become increasingly sidelined in priorities and any positive attributes of one's spoiuse I've heard from ladies here that they absolutely want to be married to their lover and if their spouse is not their lover they no longer wish for teh spouse labels to apply. The difference here was sounding as though the potential for an erotic, romantic relationship outside marriage could not be rewarding. Maybe it's the same attitude that it isn't what one wants and the sexual interaction is mandatory for marriage to persist. In which case, you want what you want. À chacun son goût. I'm checking teh temperature to see if there's a conviction that love outside marriage cannot rival that within. Such a view can possibly demolish marriages unnecessarily. (Though Apocrypha has asked whether such relationships are marriages at all. I think we disagree on that subject, though our debate was unfinished, if I recall.) |
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Post by patrick on Nov 30, 2023 19:45:31 GMT -5
Hello all. My wife of 43+ years is an avid anti-vaxxer. I am fully vaccinated. She listens to podcasts every night which bolster and support her anti-vax stance. She continues to gaslight me with her beliefs. Highly annoying.
This obviously has caused a rift in our marriage. We tried marriage counseling with limited results. The counselor advised that we were both right, with me being prudent in taking the recommended precautions to avoid Covid (at 74 I am considered “high risk”), and she (also “high risk” at age 67) should be able to make her own healthcare decisions by refusing to take the shot.
This rift in our relationship has expanded to political beliefs. While I am a lifelong democrat, she recently changed her party affiliation so she could vote for our republican governor Ron DeSantis. I despise this man.
I continue my efforts to “let it be”, but we don’t seem to enjoy each other’s company anymore. We have taken separate vacations for years which we both are fine with. While I have considered separation, we have two grandchildren which bring us much joy. I don’t want to “rock the boat” with them.
I continue to struggle with insomnia which I believe is triggered by lack of intimacy as she has made it quite obvious that she no longer enjoys sex. Our last few encounters were disappointing to say the least. She did make an effort after counseling but I felt that her heart was no longer in it. While we had a very active and satisfying sex life early in our relationship, she seems to have become asexual. Is this common in a long-term marriage? As a 74 year old healthy male in a long-term marriage, am I asking too much to expect a continued sexual relationship?
Bottom line, our marriage has evolved (“devolved“?) into one of convenience. She is very outgoing and gregarious and enjoys her yoga classes every day and is active in our HOA while I am an introvert and am happy to take my daily solo bike rides.
Our one saving grace is the time we spend together with our grandchildren. As such, we both seem to accept our current situation and try to make the best of it. I realize that spouses sometimes grow in different directions. She says she “loves her simple life”, and other than our lack of intimacy, I too appreciate our retired life here in Florida.
Your thoughts on helping me to “grok” with this situation is greatly appreciated. I need to sleep better…and it would be great to get laid again! For good or bad, solo sex is what gets me through the night these days and has become my coping mechanism to deal with this situation. Would love to hear how others here deal with this!
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Post by Same old, same old on Nov 30, 2023 19:56:37 GMT -5
Hello all. My wife of 43+ years is an avid anti-vaxxer. I am fully vaccinated. She listens to podcasts every night which bolster and support her anti-vax stance. She continues to gaslight me with her beliefs. Highly annoying. This obviously has caused a rift in our marriage. We tried marriage counseling with limited results. The counselor advised that we were both right, with me being prudent in taking the recommended precautions to avoid Covid (at 74 I am considered “high risk”), and she (also “high risk” at age 67) should be able to make her own healthcare decisions by refusing to take the shot. This rift in our relationship has expanded to political beliefs. While I am a lifelong democrat, she recently changed her party affiliation so she could vote for our republican governor Ron DeSantis. I despise this man. I continue my efforts to “let it be”, but we don’t seem to enjoy each other’s company anymore. We have taken separate vacations for years which we both are fine with. While I have considered separation, we have two grandchildren which bring us much joy. I don’t want to “rock the boat” with them. I continue to struggle with insomnia which I believe is triggered by lack of intimacy as she has made it quite obvious that she no longer enjoys sex. Our last few encounters were disappointing to say the least. She did make an effort after counseling but I felt that her heart was no longer in it. While we had a very active and satisfying sex life early in our relationship, she seems to have become asexual. Is this common in a long-term marriage? As a 74 year old healthy male in a long-term marriage, am I asking too much to expect a continued sexual relationship? Bottom line, our marriage has evolved (“devolved“?) into one of convenience. She is very outgoing and gregarious and enjoys her yoga classes every day and is active in our HOA while I am an introvert and am happy to take my daily solo bike rides. Our one saving grace is the time we spend together with our grandchildren. As such, we both seem to accept our current situation and try to make the best of it. I realize that spouses sometimes grow in different directions. She says she “loves her simple life”, and other than our lack of intimacy, I too appreciate our retired life here in Florida. Your thoughts on helping me to “grok” with this situation is greatly appreciated. I need to sleep better…and it would be great to get laid again! For good or bad, solo sex is what gets me through the night these days and has become my coping mechanism to deal with this situation. Would love to hear how others here deal with this! Good for you ... having a healthy secual appeat 74 is commendable!! I'm sure you will find some coping advise in this forum. Happy holidays! |
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Post by mirrororchid on Dec 1, 2023 7:21:03 GMT -5
This rift in our relationship has expanded to political beliefs. While I am a lifelong democrat, she recently changed her party affiliation so she could vote for our republican governor Ron DeSantis. I despise this man. ...As a 74 year old healthy male in a long-term marriage, am I asking too much to expect a continued sexual relationship? Bottom line, our marriage has evolved (“devolved“?) into one of convenience. She is very outgoing and gregarious and enjoys her yoga classes every day and is active in our HOA while I am an introvert and am happy to take my daily solo bike rides. Our one saving grace is the time we spend together with our grandchildren. ... I need to sleep better…and it would be great to get laid again! ... At 74, you have a steeper climb than many visitors. Society isn't as strong an ally. No one is surprised a 74 year old woman struggles with sex. We have people in their 30's and 40's here. No one thinks a refuser in that age range is within their rights to demand celibacy of a spouse. You seem to be barking up a wrong tree here, though, perhaps. You'd like to have less strife in your philosophies which would promote emotional bonding and intimacy. This could make the lack of physical intimacy all the worse if it doesn't happen. If it is a goal worthy of pursuit on its own merits, perhaps seeking out common ground would be enough. Volunteer together, as a team, to help a food kitchen (private charity is what Republicans say they want, not welfare. Prove it!). Attend a cooking class together. Join the yoga class, if that isn't "me" time for her. Where you lock horns, acknowledge the differences and pursue your side of the issue alone to whatever degree you're up for. If you don't engage it at all, well, that's your priorities, and its a contentious issue because teh two sides are reasonably well matched in enthusiasm by other mismatched couples nationwide. As a note of curiosity, do you consider her conservative activism...effective? Or self-soothing? I often see a lot of smoke and raucous noise, but ...not much in teh way of results. What happens would have happened even if our "enthusiastic" loved ones had done nothing at all. HOA involved? In what way? Does she enforce little itty bitty upkeep and aesthetic requirements? Ever tease her about a "small government" Republican is pushing little people around forcing them to do things they don't want to do under threat of fines and liens on property? Or is she the kind that stays the hand of those busybody types? (bless her, if she is!) I forget who said it, but a phrase that comes to mind is, you can be asexual, or monogamous, not both. It is a common ILIASM mindset that says non-consensual celibacy is wrong. Coerced sexuality is also wrong. The answers are to stop celibacy, accept celibacy, open the relationship, or end it. You want to stop celibacy. Which of the other three are you open to? |
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Post by patrick on Dec 1, 2023 23:44:26 GMT -5
This rift in our relationship has expanded to political beliefs. While I am a lifelong democrat, she recently changed her party affiliation so she could vote for our republican governor Ron DeSantis. I despise this man. ...As a 74 year old healthy male in a long-term marriage, am I asking too much to expect a continued sexual relationship? Bottom line, our marriage has evolved (“devolved“?) into one of convenience. She is very outgoing and gregarious and enjoys her yoga classes every day and is active in our HOA while I am an introvert and am happy to take my daily solo bike rides. Our one saving grace is the time we spend together with our grandchildren. ... I need to sleep better…and it would be great to get laid again! ... At 74, you have a steeper climb than many visitors. Society isn't as strong an ally. No one is surprised a 74 year old woman struggles with sex. We have people in their 30's and 40's here. No one thinks a refuser in that age range is within their rights to demand celibacy of a spouse. Hence, the disturbance. I get that she has the right to not like sex. So I am left to my own devices. You seem to be barking up a wrong tree here, though, perhaps. You'd like to have less strife in your philosophies which would promote emotional bonding and intimacy. This could make the lack of physical intimacy all the worse if it doesn't happen. Yah, you nailed it! But what tree am I wrong barking up? We obviously have grown in different directions and find it better if we do not discuss politics. Doing so only further divides us. If it is a goal worthy of pursuit on its own merits, perhaps seeking out common ground would be enough. Volunteer together, as a team, to help a food kitchen (private charity is what Republicans say they want, not welfare. Prove it!). Attend a cooking class together. Join the yoga class, if that isn't "me" time for her. Maybe you missed the part where I said we don’t seem to enjoy being around each other? Where you lock horns, acknowledge the differences and pursue your side of the issue alone to whatever degree you're up for. If you don't engage it at all, well, that's your priorities, and its a contentious issue because teh two sides are reasonably well matched in enthusiasm by other mismatched couples nationwide. As a note of curiosity, do you consider her conservative activism...effective? Or self-soothing? I often see a lot of smoke and raucous noise, but ...not much in teh way of results. What happens would have happened even if our "enthusiastic" loved ones had done nothing at all. She maintains that she is not political. She gets most of her political persuasion from our daughter but is not inclined to debate our differences. HOA involved? In what way? Does she enforce little itty bitty upkeep and aesthetic requirements? Ever tease her about a "small government" Republican is pushing little people around forcing them to do things they don't want to do under threat of fines and liens on property? Or is she the kind that stays the hand of those busybody types? (bless her, if she is!) LOL. She is not a “Karen” but serves as secretary on the board of our HOA. But she definitely has control issues in our relationship, one of which is denying sex to her husband. Hence the disturbance. I forget who said it, but a phrase that comes to mind is, you can be asexual, or monogamous, not both. It is a common ILIASM mindset that says non-consensual celibacy is wrong. Coerced sexuality is also wrong. The answers are to stop celibacy, accept celibacy, open the relationship, or end it. You want to stop celibacy. Which of the other three are you open to? I had a “Eureka” moment a while back when I read that you shouldn’t have sex with anyone that doesn’t want it at least as much as you do. She will roll over and give in to my advances but it’s obvious that she not into it and regards it as another of her many tasks that she would like to finish as quickly as possible. Not fun for me, so I have stopped trying. I realize that you can’t make someone like sex if they are not so inclined. So I guess I have accepted celibacy with the exception of solo sex. i guess I’m here to bitch about my sorry situation and see how others may cope in a similar situation. |
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Post by worksforme2 on Dec 2, 2023 6:31:34 GMT -5
. I realize that you can’t make someone like sex if they are not so inclined. So I guess I have accepted celibacy with the exception of solo sex. i guess I’m here to bitch about my sorry situation and see how others may cope in a similar situation. Accepting celibacy is a prevalent mechanism employed often by members at this site. Perhaps most of the members fall into this behavior as a means of keeping the status quo. Read up in the Choosing to Stay theme and you may get some pointers on dealing with a refusing spouse. Or you may feel some sence of relief knowing so many others are in the same boat. I could not walk down this path so I ended my marriage. Have you tried having a discussion with her about you having a FWB. She might be open to the idea since it removes the chore of having to service your libido, even if it is starfish sex. If she isn't receptive you could still pursue a ladyfriend on the sly. Just be aware that route is fraught with cliffs where things don't end well. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Dec 4, 2023 19:20:54 GMT -5
At 74, you have a steeper climb than many visitors. Society isn't as strong an ally. No one is surprised a 74 year old woman struggles with sex. We have people in their 30's and 40's here. No one thinks a refuser in that age range is within their rights to demand celibacy of a spouse. Hence, the disturbance. I get that she has the right to not like sex. So I am left to my own devices.
You seem to be barking up a wrong tree here, though, perhaps. You'd like to have less strife in your philosophies which would promote emotional bonding and intimacy. This could make the lack of physical intimacy all the worse if it doesn't happen. Yah, you nailed it! But what tree am I wrong barking up? We obviously have grown in different directions and find it better if we do not discuss politics. Doing so only further divides us.
If it is a goal worthy of pursuit on its own merits, perhaps seeking out common ground would be enough. Volunteer together, as a team, to help a food kitchen (private charity is what Republicans say they want, not welfare. Prove it!). Attend a cooking class together. Join the yoga class, if that isn't "me" time for her. Maybe you missed the part where I said we don’t seem to enjoy being around each other?
Where you lock horns, acknowledge the differences and pursue your side of the issue alone to whatever degree you're up for. If you don't engage it at all, well, that's your priorities, and its a contentious issue because teh two sides are reasonably well matched in enthusiasm by other mismatched couples nationwide. As a note of curiosity, do you consider her conservative activism...effective? Or self-soothing? I often see a lot of smoke and raucous noise, but ...not much in teh way of results. What happens would have happened even if our "enthusiastic" loved ones had done nothing at all. She maintains that she is not political. She gets most of her political persuasion from our daughter but is not inclined to debate our differences.
HOA involved? In what way? Does she enforce little itty bitty upkeep and aesthetic requirements? Ever tease her about a "small government" Republican is pushing little people around forcing them to do things they don't want to do under threat of fines and liens on property? Or is she the kind that stays the hand of those busybody types? (bless her, if she is!) LOL. She is not a “Karen” but serves as secretary on the board of our HOA. But she definitely has control issues in our relationship, one of which is denying sex to her husband. Hence the disturbance.
I forget who said it, but a phrase that comes to mind is, you can be asexual, or monogamous, not both. It is a common ILIASM mindset that says non-consensual celibacy is wrong. Coerced sexuality is also wrong. The answers are to stop celibacy, accept celibacy, open the relationship, or end it. You want to stop celibacy. Which of the other three are you open to? I had a “Eureka” moment a while back when I read that you shouldn’t have sex with anyone that doesn’t want it at least as much as you do. She will roll over and give in to my advances but it’s obvious that she not into it and regards it as another of her many tasks that she would like to finish as quickly as possible. Not fun for me, so I have stopped trying. I realize that you can’t make someone like sex if they are not so inclined. So I guess I have accepted celibacy with the exception of solo sex.i guess I’m here to bitch about my sorry situation and see how others may cope in a similar situation.
I did miss the part about not enjoying being around each other. I re-read it and you only seem to hint. I'm blind I guess. But you've said so now. It sounds as though you don't get along, but you would like to start? Is sexual intimacy the end goal? Or is the emotional bonding an end in itself? By barking up the wrong tree, you're trying to get serenity, but by focusing on emotional closeness, you may get further away. But, the gist was had, so... set aside my Your wife doesn't want it as much as you. Other ladies might. Is "outsourcing" off the table? We have folks who come here for sympathetic ears. You're not alone in your situation or your approach to it. I've heard estimates that 20% of marriages are sexless, so in answer to whether sexless marriages are common? It depends on your definition, but 20% strikes me as a "Yes." |
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