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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 15, 2016 18:52:30 GMT -5
mrigman, Part of that data consists of a huge number of new posters who have tentatively googled sexless marriage and want to see what others think, is there any saving it because I'd never ever leave my marriage, I love my wife, she's so awesome!!!!!!!!! Well, I was that guy. I first 'Ask Jeeves-ed' sexless marriage in 2007......after five or six years of soul-destroying, life-sucking clinging to a dream, I was still saying "BUT I LOVE HER!" in 2013........years wasted, nothing changed......now, and I mean RIGHT NOW, I am waking up in my own bed, my own room, as I've done since 2008.....joyless, spiritually vacant, travel books, screenplays, Gibson SG and amp, old photo albums of when I once lived.........literally sitting over in the corner under years of dust.....things I once loved......vicious and unyielding bouts of depression.......my 'mind' and my emotions are permanently damaged by all of this........thousands upon thousands of days of grinding away on this......distant now from family and friends because, well, what's to say anymore?.........I am painting an accurate picture for you......this is my life at this moment. If I were to get lucky, I may live another 30-35 years........and I have JUST enough energy left to walk away from here after the holidays. I'm going to die with my boots on. I still have a shred of dignity, my legacy (I have three children 20/22/26)......I have been through hell in a gasoline suit.........and I used to be like you in what I thought of my marriage and wife.......last night, I made a pizza for myself......there was plenty, so I debated whether to offer her some (continuing to be civil) or not.......I'm a good person, she's not.......finally it just slipped out -- "There's plenty of pizza of if you'd like some." Do you know what she said to me? She said nothing. And I kicked myself for the 12,538th time.....and then crawled another few feet towards The Holidays, just wanting them and their visits to be over so I can leave here and see if there's anything left out there to save me. mrigman......the warnings you're getting are real.......from people who all started out exactly where you are. Heed the warnings.....give your wife an ultimatum before it's too late. Love yourSELF first. (and if anyone should think, 'Meh, these men and women here are probably a bunch of gross, washed-up losers', look around at our photos!!!! This place is a goldmine of hotness, it really is!! Good, interesting, fun, hot people who just happened to get burned by a bad decision!!) Amen. Brother, free yourself. |
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Post by mrigman on Dec 16, 2016 11:59:03 GMT -5
First time poster. ..........that there is a near certain chance things will never change, and if I want to stay with her the rest of my life (I do) that celibacy is part of the deal. Joy, please keep us posted about how things are going. The rest can be quite long.... Do you really want to spend next 30...or more years intimacy free? Not in marriage but in "complicated friendship" in order to preserve which you have to stay celibate for some bizzare reason? And that's the million dollar question. But all relationships require some compromising and often something you have to give up in order to make it work. Granted, this was not a compromise I signed on for, but I have to ask myself if the other benefits of staying outweigh the lack of intimacy in the long term. Is that ever possible? I know most of you here would argue it's not, but perhaps that is actually one long term solution. |
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Post by thefullmoon on Dec 16, 2016 14:59:47 GMT -5
The rest can be quite long.... Do you really want to spend next 30...or more years intimacy free? Not in marriage but in "complicated friendship" in order to preserve which you have to stay celibate for some bizzare reason? And that's the million dollar question. But all relationships require some compromising and often something you have to give up in order to make it work. Granted, this was not a compromise I signed on for, but I have to ask myself if the other benefits of staying outweigh the lack of intimacy in the long term. Is that ever possible? I know most of you here would argue it's not, but perhaps that is actually one long term solution. Compromising....good word... Would you stay at a restaurant, if instead of feeding you the staff would try to convince you that sitting comfortably and listening to the music is quite good enough? Now you are deciding is it good enough for you to sacrifice your body and soul for staying in fake marriage ... What is your wive going to compromise? I bet-nothing.. Do you want to be the only one who compromise and sacrifice? |
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harveyspecter
New Member
Once a guy who had a lot to say and little to learn. Now has a lot to learn and little to say.
Posts: 9 
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Post by harveyspecter on Dec 16, 2016 15:14:03 GMT -5
This was meant as a reply to Joy's original post. Still new here, so I didn't realize it would post 8 pages away with no context.
As a guy who has stayed in his marriage for a decade now because of my children, I read your post and started reading faster and faster looking for any comment about kids.
NO KIDS! I finally read it.
Joy, you don't know me from Adam. In fact, my name could BE Adam and you wouldn't know that. (It's not though. Really. I swear!). Please consider how many people are a part of this group. How many people come here, every day, in pain. We're wasting our lives for one reason or another.
Get out. You've certainly broken up with longterm boyfriends before, right? This will be the same only with more paperwork and more explanations to friends and family. There's no need to demonize your husband. He has his reasons. But if you are a normal sexual person, you have to get out. You're still plenty young to find someone to build a life with.
Don't be a part of this group next Christmas.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Dec 16, 2016 15:37:07 GMT -5
harveyspecter - I'm so happy to see your screen name! Sad to hear it sounds like no changes on your SM, I guess, but hopefully your college plan marches along. WELCOME - and even though you didn't let it show in this post much, I have missed your witty, self-deprecating humor as well as extensive movie knowledge base. Really glad to "see" you hear. -GG (aka, previously grantgeek)
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 16, 2016 23:18:17 GMT -5
First time poster. I am in nearly the exact same situation as Joy but roles reversed. I just wanted to thank all the responders here because they've helped me articulate my thoughts better than I could and made me feel better that there are so many others out there who are in the same boat. I even got a Word doc open and pasted my favorite advice to revisit later on. Same thing here: sex was fine when we were dating, started tapering before the wedding, dropped dramatically after, and now (4 years later) I'm convinced she's asexual. I feel betrayed, like she was acting as someone else before, but I know it wasn't intentional because she's not anywhere near a manipulative person. I am on the verge of becoming a counter-refuser; we just went to our first counseling session this week and when I attempted to re-ignite things after a romantic evening last night she was totally oblivious to what as going on. After starting to kiss her she'd turn away after a few seconds and kind of laugh and then go back to playing a game on her phone. The whole encounter was awkward because it's been 6+ months at this point and I don't feel as close to her. So I'm struggling with this new reality that there is a near certain chance things will never change, and if I want to stay with her the rest of my life (I do) that celibacy is part of the deal. Joy, please keep us posted about how things are going. I'm so sorry, mrigman.  It seems that the common theme here is that things don't really ever improve. I'm sorry that she basically ignores your advances and that it's so awkward at this point. I don't quite have the same stuff going on, but there is an awkwardness that I really wish wasn't there. It seems that passion used to replace the awkwardness. I miss that a lot. What's your plan for dealing for now? Please keep us posted on your situation as well! |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 16, 2016 23:18:56 GMT -5
First time poster. ..........that there is a near certain chance things will never change, and if I want to stay with her the rest of my life (I do) that celibacy is part of the deal. Joy, please keep us posted about how things are going. The rest can be quite long.... Do you really want to spend next 30...or more years intimacy free? Not in marriage but in "complicated friendship" in order to preserve which you have to stay celibate for some bizzare reason? Ugh, it doesn't sound appealing. I'm still struggling to justify it all in my head, because things aren't ALL bad, nor are we 100% non-intimate, awful, ignoring of each other, etc. But it's still not at all fulfilling. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 16, 2016 23:20:22 GMT -5
This was meant as a reply to Joy's original post. Still new here, so I didn't realize it would post 8 pages away with no context. As a guy who has stayed in his marriage for a decade now because of my children, I read your post and started reading faster and faster looking for any comment about kids. NO KIDS! I finally read it. Joy, you don't know me from Adam. In fact, my name could BE Adam and you wouldn't know that. (It's not though. Really. I swear!). Please consider how many people are a part of this group. How many people come here, every day, in pain. We're wasting our lives for one reason or another. Get out. You've certainly broken up with longterm boyfriends before, right? This will be the same only with more paperwork and more explanations to friends and family. There's no need to demonize your husband. He has his reasons. But if you are a normal sexual person, you have to get out. You're still plenty young to find someone to build a life with. Don't be a part of this group next Christmas. Thanks for your comment, harveyspecter.  I totally see where you're coming from. It's hard not to want to bolt, yet some days it's hard to ever imagine bolting. I truly almost feel more lost than ever and very unsure. I have ended things with longterm boyfriends in the past. Not fun, but doable. This would obviously be more difficult. I truly wish things would get a lot worse or a lot better. I know that's sad, but this limbo/unsure state is really, really not pleasant! |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Dec 17, 2016 7:47:56 GMT -5
This was meant as a reply to Joy's original post. Still new here, so I didn't realize it would post 8 pages away with no context. As a guy who has stayed in his marriage for a decade now because of my children, I read your post and started reading faster and faster looking for any comment about kids. NO KIDS! I finally read it. Joy, you don't know me from Adam. In fact, my name could BE Adam and you wouldn't know that. (It's not though. Really. I swear!). Please consider how many people are a part of this group. How many people come here, every day, in pain. We're wasting our lives for one reason or another. Get out. You've certainly broken up with longterm boyfriends before, right? This will be the same only with more paperwork and more explanations to friends and family. There's no need to demonize your husband. He has his reasons. But if you are a normal sexual person, you have to get out. You're still plenty young to find someone to build a life with. Don't be a part of this group next Christmas. Thanks for your comment, harveyspecter. I totally see where you're coming from. It's hard not to want to bolt, yet some days it's hard to ever imagine bolting. I truly almost feel more lost than ever and very unsure. I have ended things with longterm boyfriends in the past. Not fun, but doable. This would obviously be more difficult. I truly wish things would get a lot worse or a lot better. I know that's sad, but this limbo/unsure state is really, really not pleasant! I think this speaks to .... you could probably benefit from some therapy. I no longer want to just get by in my life reacting to outer influences. I want to use my initiative to make my life happen as opposed to wait for some stimulus then choose how to respond. That is - you say you wish it would get better or worse so you would know what to do. Counseling can maybe help you tune into what you want, be able to communicate what you need (i.e., tell the partner your deal breakers), and then they either work to change patterns or they don't. If they don't, it's a clear communication of how much they value (or ignore) your needs. Good luck with it. I found an outside counselor very helpful just to get in tune with my own preferences, and needs. Even at a minimum, it helped me distinguish between those two things. |
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Post by thefullmoon on Dec 17, 2016 12:30:41 GMT -5
The rest can be quite long.... Do you really want to spend next 30...or more years intimacy free? Not in marriage but in "complicated friendship" in order to preserve which you have to stay celibate for some bizzare reason? Ugh, it doesn't sound appealing. I'm still struggling to justify it all in my head, because things aren't ALL bad, nor are we 100% non-intimate, awful, ignoring of each other, etc. But it's still not at all fulfilling. Ok... What parts of your marriage are so strongly wonderfull that outweigh the rapidly becoming zero sex for the rest of your life? ...and even perspective decades of celibacy don't stop you wanting to "spend the rest of your life" in this marriage? There is no medals at the end... |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Dec 17, 2016 17:57:25 GMT -5
mrigman, on this point: ask myself if the other benefits of staying outweigh the lack of intimacy in the long term. Is that ever possible? I believe it IS possible. My data was that this was true for a long period. In the first 8 years together we weren't married. Sex was "ok to pretty good" but the other benefits really were great. And we took turns supporting each other in financial, physical, & emotional ways. We joked & got along pretty great. We vacationed when we could. The kids (his kids) grew into wonderful young adults. We married (I proposed, finally convinced after 8 years that I knew the real him & this was "solid"). The kids grew up the rest of the way, moved out, wed. The jobs changed. We got through most challenges- but at this part, it was starting to shift. He had challenges and I helped. I got promoted at work, took on more responsibilities, got raises. He got laid off, took unemployment for a while until he qualified for Social Security. His expenses remained the same or grew, but SS didn't cover much anymore. We no longer took vacations together. When he got "too crazy" I would encourage him to go fishing. I worked but my "break" was his absence. Sex was not common any longer but was ok if I initiated. Through all the years, the pattern for sex would "go dry" once in awhile. I would talk to him. He would sneak less porn & screw more often - for awhile. Then it would be less. And less. Until we talked again, b/c I brought it up. When he got prostate cancer diagnosed- it was a bad blow. He'd already had ED (but wouldn't use the pills w/o a lot of shame & inadequacy). He had diabetes. He followed dietary rules vigilantly but didn't like exercise. When cancer treatment led to no more ability for erections, the sex died. I was still ok with that. But w/o sex, we slowly lost our emotional bond. Then a lot of our shared humor. Then eventually basic manners. I became "the wood shop assistant" and someone who paid most of the bills but I was gone at work most of the time. The house became "his" - I had one recliner I watched tv from, but was never EVER in charge of what show was on. I took one half of the bed & not much more than that. I wasn't in charge of weekends -- I could "get a pass" to go out with a friend but evenings were always at home in front of his tv. Sooner or later- I didn't recognize who I was, how I had gotten there or WTF I was still doing hanging around. It was incremental. But by the time I saw how outweighed the benefits were --- I couldn't start counseling with him. I got my own therapist & I got out. Just - don't let your whole life, & ability to enjoy it, slip away from you unnoticed. At least examine it closely. Maybe with the help of a therapist and a couples counselor (I advocate for both, but one or the other is at least a start). Good luck,
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 17, 2016 23:39:12 GMT -5
Thanks for your comment, harveyspecter. I totally see where you're coming from. It's hard not to want to bolt, yet some days it's hard to ever imagine bolting. I truly almost feel more lost than ever and very unsure. I have ended things with longterm boyfriends in the past. Not fun, but doable. This would obviously be more difficult. I truly wish things would get a lot worse or a lot better. I know that's sad, but this limbo/unsure state is really, really not pleasant! I think this speaks to .... you could probably benefit from some therapy. I no longer want to just get by in my life reacting to outer influences. I want to use my initiative to make my life happen as opposed to wait for some stimulus then choose how to respond. That is - you say you wish it would get better or worse so you would know what to do. Counseling can maybe help you tune into what you want, be able to communicate what you need (i.e., tell the partner your deal breakers), and then they either work to change patterns or they don't. If they don't, it's a clear communication of how much they value (or ignore) your needs. Good luck with it. I found an outside counselor very helpful just to get in tune with my own preferences, and needs. Even at a minimum, it helped me distinguish between those two things. Yeah, it probably wouldn't hurt to go more often. I've definitely communicated, firmly, what I want for years. I don't think I've been vague whatsoever. We talk well, so there's no issue that he's not getting what I'm saying. I know he's trying based on what he does after big talks, but somehow it doesn't last very long. I think contact with someone else (not in person) really made me start to question if this is what I want forever. It truly just feels like a good friendship to me, and I feel far too young (under 30) to accept that. Yet on the flip side, he's a great guy, we get along well, we have shared goals, etc., so it's hard to want to throw it all away. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 17, 2016 23:40:55 GMT -5
Ugh, it doesn't sound appealing. I'm still struggling to justify it all in my head, because things aren't ALL bad, nor are we 100% non-intimate, awful, ignoring of each other, etc. But it's still not at all fulfilling. Ok... What parts of your marriage are so strongly wonderfull that outweigh the rapidly becoming zero sex for the rest of your life? ...and even perspective decades of celibacy don't stop you wanting to "spend the rest of your life" in this marriage? There is no medals at the end... Well, we get along really well for the most part, still talk a lot (and about important things, not just fluff), can discuss this issue pretty deeply, have shared goals, etc. The problem is that for 5+ years, I wanted nothing more than for him to want me more (sexually, of course). Now I kind of feel like I've detached substantially and I don't even want that anymore. I don't know if that can ever come back or not. I really feel like staying short term is a better idea, but staying long term may not be good at all. |
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 18, 2016 0:36:49 GMT -5
Well, we get along really well for the most part, still talk a lot (and about important things, not just fluff), can discuss this issue pretty deeply, have shared goals, etc. The problem is that for 5+ years, I wanted nothing more than for him to want me more (sexually, of course). Now I kind of feel like I've detached substantially and I don't even want that anymore. I don't know if that can ever come back or not. I really feel like staying short term is a better idea, but staying long term may not be good at all. When I was 23, I was in your shoes and 2 years in. Now I'm approaching 50. Over half my life has been spent trying to "fix" the intimacy problem in an otherwise great marriage. It's not fixable. It doesn't get easier to suppress your cravings. It doesn't get easier to leave. You've got a solid 50 years to go. Potential for 5000 intimate moments, if you're average. Most of those will never happen if you stay. That's a huge number to weigh in the balance, and an incalculable amount of lost emotional bonding. No kids? You have a unique opportunity to wipe the slate clean and learn from your past. Where you see a shit sandwich, many of us see you have an incredible opportunity for a fresh start. Most of us slogged through it because we thought we were alone in our plight, that surely it was because of something we were doing wrong. You don't have to. |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Dec 18, 2016 8:12:47 GMT -5
joy6016 - it sounds like you are justifying for him. If you have said clearly, over & over, and he changed for a time, a short time - this is reset behavior. It's meant to get you off his back. Shared goals except for the things you say are the only thing you wanted. You can't change the inner workings of a person. I'm channeling Metamomma now- you shouldn't have to cajole, convince, or convert a partner into having sex. If they don't want physical intimacy, they won't wake up one day desiring it in the way you want them to. He is what he is, who he is. He hasn't hidden it & you have told him but then not stood up for what you told him. All I can say is: be true to yourself. He won't change. I don't think our refusers can change. They are who they are. He has shown you who he really is, time & again.
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It seems that the common theme here is that things don't really ever improve. I'm sorry that she basically ignores your advances and that it's so awkward at this point. I don't quite have the same stuff going on, but there is an awkwardness that I really wish wasn't there. It seems that passion used to replace the awkwardness. I miss that a lot. 
