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Post by greatcoastal on May 19, 2018 18:33:12 GMT -5
The Family Wizard thing could be a good thing to keep track of expenses for the kids but your exwife is very manipulative and controlling. I could see after a year she use it against you to get child support adjusted. I would not provide her with any info about YOUR household or expenses. I like the "get off my lawn". Protect yourself and don't trust her. The "get off my lawn" part. That's a whole different subject. I intentionally started picking up my teens from the curb, and meeting them on the street in front of the house. I am not going to go to the front door. I want zero contact with my ex. I don't want to be going back inside or even driving by there. I've read the stories of the ex H who just can't say no and ends up getting roped into remaining her handy man. That won't be me. I did entertain the thought of " maybe, if she comes to the door, I could invite her inside, once to see the house and what's been provided for the teens. Once, that's it." Well when she came to the door the kids where ready and she didn't even show any inclination of even looking inside. That was that, for now. One part of this "family Wizard " I plan on using is sending her bills for her half of grooming the dog. I paid for that all during the divorce, she refused to. There is so much more that could be said about how different we are when it comes to the dog. It's another one of those "red flags" "I would not provide her with any info. about YOUR household expenses". That does concern me. I have read countless articles of spouses that got away with squandering thousands of child support dollars on themselves. (botox, breast implants, boats, etc...) while not spending it on the child. Their are also the articles of justice being served and that spouse loosing custody and having to pay the money back. Spending child support money on my teens will be an easy one for me. I plan on keeping it well documented. |
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Post by greatcoastal on May 19, 2018 19:12:34 GMT -5
Family Wizard sounds like a great tool for families that are together under one roof. You all are divorced - your family unit it broken up and there is a reason she pays YOU child support. Money doesn't and shouldn't funnel backwards. I would tell her that family wizard isn't working out for you and you will not be participating any longer. How she runs her household and her finances is her business. I received child support and I still do. I never asked Mr Bballgirl for a dime. He never asked me either. We are divorced. When the kids need shoes, haircuts, etc. I buy it. Some people can respond to a controller instantly. I can't, it's still a struggle. Add legal divorce decrees and a new computer email sight and I need help. Fortunately I have an elderly neighbor (He's an E.E and a realtor) to help me navigate through these things. Enough that I will handle it myself in the future, until or unless it needs an attorney again. I'm almost expecting more of that. That's just who I married and am left dealing with. The end will happen. Again I needed help, swallow my pride, and I receive. AS a man asking for help, it is difficult, it is not something I was raised to do. I am much more used to giving help, rescuing, and protecting others. Even a rescuer , eventually needs rescuing. |
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Post by ted on May 19, 2018 23:21:45 GMT -5
greatcoastal, unless your decree specifically addresses this, I think a very fair rule is that prior agreement is required for shared expenses. That doesn't necessarily mean tedious coordination on each transaction; you may agree on rules that cover categories, like: general purpose clothing is permitted up to $x/mo. Some things shouldn't have blanket rules, because they should be a discussion each time, like: are we going to send the kids on that church retreat this summer for $y? (Do we want them to go? Can I afford it? Can you afford it?) Money is a proxy for the underlying parenting issues. "Are we going to enroll kid3 in piano lessons for the coming year and split the cost?" is a parenting decision as much as it is about money. If something qualifies as a shared expense, then it qualifies as a shared decision. If she's unilaterally doing things and sending you the bill, you've got a co-parenting problem as much as you've got a financial problem. It sucks that she's a controlling, crazy, narc. I'm thankful I don't have that problem. You have my sympathy. Perhaps this shared-expense thing can be good if it gives you at least a little leverage to force the co-parenting, which in my book matters even more than the money. I definitely wouldn't stand for the status quo if she's making all the decisions and sticking you with half the bills, without so much as a conversation. That seems like quite the violation of your parenting and financial boundaries. Prior agreement or the other party isn't liable is a basic start.
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Post by DryCreek on May 19, 2018 23:37:01 GMT -5
greatcoastal, some simple thoughts from a bystander, not the voice of experience with child support... Any guideline that gives her free rein to rack up expenses for you (a la 50:50 split) will be abused. If the threshold is $50, she sounds like the type that would do dozens of transactions under the line just to cause you pain. Conversely, having to negotiate every routine expense in advance will be exhausting and perpetually conflicting. Instead, may I suggest that you instead split responsibility for common items and own it entirely (both the purchasing, and the expense)? Shoes, school books? That's on her. Undergarments, school lunches? That's on you. Etc. There's probably no easy answer here. This is just an idea that doesn't invite perpetual bickering.
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Post by hopingforachange on May 20, 2018 15:50:33 GMT -5
Reading back thru your post, she unilaterally approved expenses and is submitted you a bill for items you have not approved to be purchased?
You never said, yes I approve of this expense, correct? Any mutual expenses need to be approved by both parties.
This sounds like she is still exerting control over your pocket book.
I realize these are education related expenses but I suspect they were chosen to test the waters and pull at your heart strings to get you to approve and to start the slippery slope.
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Post by bballgirl on May 20, 2018 16:03:29 GMT -5
I think DryCreek had a good idea by splitting responsibilities instead of expenses. I would also recommend taking the offensive and letting her know what you will cover. You are probably more fair than she will be. |
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Post by greatcoastal on May 21, 2018 7:20:09 GMT -5
Reading back thru your post, she unilaterally approved expenses and is submitted you a bill for items you have not approved to be purchased? You never said, yes I approve of this expense, correct? Any mutual expenses need to be approved by both parties. This sounds like she is still exerting control over your pocket book. I realize these are education related expenses but I suspect they were chosen to test the waters and pull at your heart strings to get you to approve and to start the slippery slope. Exactly! Here's some quotes from our parenting plan: Parental Responsibility: Each party shall recognize that the other has a right and responsibility to participate in major matters relating to the education, health, welfare, and upbringing of the child. Any rights, duties, or responsibilities set forth herein shall not be exercised to frustrate or control the other parent. General Terms and Conditions: The parent that has the child is required to provide transportation for the child to any of his/her scheduled activities as the parents work schedule allows. (it then lists 8 different activities -half of them are school related) Other provisions: "Uncovered Health Care Expenses" The parties shall split the cost of any medical, dental, orthodontic, and psychological expenses as follows: Mom 66% and dad will pay 34%. e; The parties shall split the cost of the child's agreed upon extracurricular activities as follows: Mother will pay 50% and Father will pay 50%. So, this was my response to my ex: Subject: Expenses related to General, extracurricular activities, and any other expenses. As far as I am concerned, I am not planning on splitting expenses that where not agreed upon prior to spending the money. Any and all expenses that you choose to make when children are with you will be your gift to the children, and I will not pay. Same will apply to me. Any expenses you want me to pay for the subject activities you want me to pay must be discussed with me prior to spending money, and must be agreed upon by me in writing. Same will apply to me. A.Is now 18 yrs. old. He is an adult, and has graduated H.S. through homeschooling. His piano lessons have nothing to do with his ability to graduate H.S. A yearbook has nothing to do with any of the children's requirements to graduate H.S., and is a luxury not a necessity. A dress was not required for S. to attend a Chorus awards banquett. It's a luxury not a necessity. Bras and haircuts are things that are general expenses. These are things that are not included anywhere in the parenting plan. Now I wait and see how she responds! I already spent well over a thousand dollars in getting furniture and supplies for the house ready for the teens to live with me. I could easily send her a bill to divide the cost of these "general supplies". |
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Post by greatcoastal on May 21, 2018 7:35:39 GMT -5
greatcoastal , unless your decree specifically addresses this, I think a very fair rule is that prior agreement is required for shared expenses. That doesn't necessarily mean tedious coordination on each transaction; you may agree on rules that cover categories, like: general purpose clothing is permitted up to $x/mo. Some things shouldn't have blanket rules, because they should be a discussion each time, like: are we going to send the kids on that church retreat this summer for $y? (Do we want them to go? Can I afford it? Can you afford it?) Money is a proxy for the underlying parenting issues. "Are we going to enroll kid3 in piano lessons for the coming year and split the cost?" is a parenting decision as much as it is about money. If something qualifies as a shared expense, then it qualifies as a shared decision. If she's unilaterally doing things and sending you the bill, you've got a co-parenting problem as much as you've got a financial problem. It sucks that she's a controlling, crazy, narc. I'm thankful I don't have that problem. You have my sympathy. Perhaps this shared-expense thing can be good if it gives you at least a little leverage to force the co-parenting, which in my book matters even more than the money. I definitely wouldn't stand for the status quo if she's making all the decisions and sticking you with half the bills, without so much as a conversation. That seems like quite the violation of your parenting and financial boundaries. Prior agreement or the other party isn't liable is a basic start. Very well said! This is exactly what i am ready to do battle against. One thing that I know really irritates her, really eats away at her controlling mind set, is that she is a corporate manager, she is in charge of other men who are most likely just as qualified and knowledgeable as she is. They are forced to have to kiss her arse if they want to keep their job. Did she get her position because she is a woman in a male dominated field due to filling government quotas? Then when her dominance and control has the breaks put on it by a lone "scullery maid" an unemployed stay at home dad, like myself ,that knocks her off her pedestal, their is only so much room for the both of us when it comes to parenting and money. The ceiling is only so high. At least in my case, the law has helped in balancing my parental rights. |
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Post by greatcoastal on May 21, 2018 9:23:11 GMT -5
I think DryCreek had a good idea by splitting responsibilities instead of expenses. I would also recommend taking the offensive and letting her know what you will cover. You are probably more fair than she will be. Remember this is the same woman who's answers under oath- and all recorded during deposition- was "I don't know, I have no idea" to the spending and where abouts of 100's of thousands of dollars, but she now has a keen memory and keeps track of $15.00 haircuts! ZERO trust! |
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Post by greatcoastal on May 21, 2018 18:11:01 GMT -5
Reading back thru your post, she unilaterally approved expenses and is submitted you a bill for items you have not approved to be purchased? You never said, yes I approve of this expense, correct? Any mutual expenses need to be approved by both parties. This sounds like she is still exerting control over your pocket book. I realize these are education related expenses but I suspect they were chosen to test the waters and pull at your heart strings to get you to approve and to start the slippery slope. Exactly! Here's some quotes from our parenting plan: Parental Responsibility: Each party shall recognize that the other has a right and responsibility to participate in major matters relating to the education, health, welfare, and upbringing of the child. Any rights, duties, or responsibilities set forth herein shall not be exercised to frustrate or control the other parent. General Terms and Conditions: The parent that has the child is required to provide transportation for the child to any of his/her scheduled activities as the parents work schedule allows. (it then lists 8 different activities -half of them are school related) Other provisions: "Uncovered Health Care Expenses" The parties shall split the cost of any medical, dental, orthodontic, and psychological expenses as follows: Mom 66% and dad will pay 34%. e; The parties shall split the cost of the child's agreed upon extracurricular activities as follows: Mother will pay 50% and Father will pay 50%. So, this was my response to my ex: Subject: Expenses related to General, extracurricular activities, and any other expenses. As far as I am concerned, I am not planning on splitting expenses that where not agreed upon prior to spending the money. Any and all expenses that you choose to make when children are with you will be your gift to the children, and I will not pay. Same will apply to me. Any expenses you want me to pay for the subject activities you want me to pay must be discussed with me prior to spending money, and must be agreed upon by me in writing. Same will apply to me. A.Is now 18 yrs. old. He is an adult, and has graduated H.S. through homeschooling. His piano lessons have nothing to do with his ability to graduate H.S. A yearbook has nothing to do with any of the children's requirements to graduate H.S., and is a luxury not a necessity. A dress was not required for S. to attend a Chorus awards banquett. It's a luxury not a necessity. Bras and haircuts are things that are general expenses. These are things that are not included anywhere in the parenting plan. Now I wait and see how she responds! I already spent well over a thousand dollars in getting furniture and supplies for the house ready for the teens to live with me. I could easily send her a bill to divide the cost of these "general supplies". Well I received a response. (I am not going to quote it all) I was told Piano is now an "agreed upon activity", a yearbook is a memento of that experience an "agreed to activity", and my daughter needed a formal outfit for an "agreed to activity". Have the check ready before the 25th or I will deduct the amount from your June child support payment. My response back: There will be no check written before the 25th. None of these expenses comply with the parenting plan. An income withholding order will be put in place so your child support will be directly deducted from your paycheck. |
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Post by bballgirl on May 21, 2018 18:23:32 GMT -5
Exactly! Here's some quotes from our parenting plan: Parental Responsibility: Each party shall recognize that the other has a right and responsibility to participate in major matters relating to the education, health, welfare, and upbringing of the child. Any rights, duties, or responsibilities set forth herein shall not be exercised to frustrate or control the other parent. General Terms and Conditions: The parent that has the child is required to provide transportation for the child to any of his/her scheduled activities as the parents work schedule allows. (it then lists 8 different activities -half of them are school related) Other provisions: "Uncovered Health Care Expenses" The parties shall split the cost of any medical, dental, orthodontic, and psychological expenses as follows: Mom 66% and dad will pay 34%. e; The parties shall split the cost of the child's agreed upon extracurricular activities as follows: Mother will pay 50% and Father will pay 50%. So, this was my response to my ex: Subject: Expenses related to General, extracurricular activities, and any other expenses. As far as I am concerned, I am not planning on splitting expenses that where not agreed upon prior to spending the money. Any and all expenses that you choose to make when children are with you will be your gift to the children, and I will not pay. Same will apply to me. Any expenses you want me to pay for the subject activities you want me to pay must be discussed with me prior to spending money, and must be agreed upon by me in writing. Same will apply to me. A.Is now 18 yrs. old. He is an adult, and has graduated H.S. through homeschooling. His piano lessons have nothing to do with his ability to graduate H.S. A yearbook has nothing to do with any of the children's requirements to graduate H.S., and is a luxury not a necessity. A dress was not required for S. to attend a Chorus awards banquett. It's a luxury not a necessity. Bras and haircuts are things that are general expenses. These are things that are not included anywhere in the parenting plan. Now I wait and see how she responds! I already spent well over a thousand dollars in getting furniture and supplies for the house ready for the teens to live with me. I could easily send her a bill to divide the cost of these "general supplies". Well I received a response. (I am not going to quote it all) I was told Piano is now an "agreed upon activity", a yearbook is a memento of that experience an "agreed to activity", and my daughter needed a formal outfit for an "agreed to activity". Have the check ready before the 25th or I will deduct the amount from your June child support payment. My response back: There will be no check written before the 25th. None of these expenses comply with the parenting plan. An income withholding order will be put in place so your child support will be directly deducted from your paycheck. Good for you! Excellent you are having her wages garnished, I did the same thing for other reasons. Piano is an extra curricular activity. I paid my daughter's activities and he paid my son's. (Based on who we claim for taxes which is stated in the decree) A dress - bullshit - she should be happy to buy her daughter a dress. This weekend I got my daughter 4 dresses because they all were cute. A yearbook - not an activity, not a memory of an activity, she's required to go to school - it's the law. Again great that her wages are garnished and you don't pay a dime of tax on it! |
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Post by greatcoastal on May 21, 2018 18:37:10 GMT -5
Well I received a response. (I am not going to quote it all) I was told Piano is now an "agreed upon activity", a yearbook is a memento of that experience an "agreed to activity", and my daughter needed a formal outfit for an "agreed to activity". Have the check ready before the 25th or I will deduct the amount from your June child support payment. My response back: There will be no check written before the 25th. None of these expenses comply with the parenting plan. An income withholding order will be put in place so your child support will be directly deducted from your paycheck. Good for you! Excellent you are having her wages garnished, I did the same thing for other reasons. Piano is an extra curricular activity. I paid my daughter's activities and he paid my son's. (Based on who we claim for taxes which is stated in the decree) A dress - bullshit - she should be happy to buy her daughter a dress. This weekend I got my daughter 4 dresses because they all were cute. A yearbook - not an activity, not a memory of an activity, she's required to go to school - it's the law. Again great that her wages are garnished and you don't pay a dime of tax on it! I sent copies of my ex's conversations about expenses, to my attorney and told her, "this needs to be ended now, it's getting out of hand already". My attorney's response said nothing about "you should pay this, the parenting plan says that" no, instead she said " lets request an income withholding order so the money is taken out of her paycheck." My response was " That would be a good idea. I was expecting that from the beginning." I still expect my ex to try and nickel and dime me to death or not pay for anything at all when the kids are with her. |
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Post by bballgirl on May 21, 2018 18:49:39 GMT -5
Good for you! Excellent you are having her wages garnished, I did the same thing for other reasons. Piano is an extra curricular activity. I paid my daughter's activities and he paid my son's. (Based on who we claim for taxes which is stated in the decree) A dress - bullshit - she should be happy to buy her daughter a dress. This weekend I got my daughter 4 dresses because they all were cute. A yearbook - not an activity, not a memory of an activity, she's required to go to school - it's the law. Again great that her wages are garnished and you don't pay a dime of tax on it! I sent copies of my ex's conversations about expenses, to my attorney and told her, "this needs to be ended now, it's getting out of hand already". Her response said nothing about "you should pay this, the parenting plan says that" no, instead she said " lets request an income withholding order so the money is taken out of her paycheck." My response was " That would be a good idea. I was expecting that from the beginning." I still expect her to try and nickel and dime me to death or not pay for anything at all when the kids are with her. That may happen, when it came to clothes, haircuts, etc. I paid for it but I was economical about providing for the kids like on Wednesday haircuts were cheaper for kids so we went on Wednesday. Monday or Tuesday was a pizza night because pizza places run specials then. The child support takes 11 days after the funds are taken from their check to get to your account in this state. |
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Post by greatcoastal on May 21, 2018 19:08:52 GMT -5
I sent copies of my ex's conversations about expenses, to my attorney and told her, "this needs to be ended now, it's getting out of hand already". Her response said nothing about "you should pay this, the parenting plan says that" no, instead she said " lets request an income withholding order so the money is taken out of her paycheck." My response was " That would be a good idea. I was expecting that from the beginning." I still expect her to try and nickel and dime me to death or not pay for anything at all when the kids are with her. That may happen, when it came to clothes, haircuts, etc. I paid for it but I was economical about providing for the kids like on Wednesday haircuts were cheaper for kids so we went on Wednesday. Monday or Tuesday was a pizza night because pizza places run specials then. The child support takes 11 days after the funds are taken from their check to get to your account in this state. Good to know! I love the fact that our conversations are all email. All documented, and I am no longer a victim to have to immediately respond to her DARVO tactics. The day is coming (like today) when I will pull out and paste her own quotes against her. She won't like that. Oh she dropped the haircut one. I'm betting the only reason she even did it was to send me a bill. From now on I'm betting my sons will be on there own again. My daughter was very stressed, has lost weight, and spent hours telling me about "mom's behavior, and their big arguments over her mom calling her sister a bitch" without any coaching from me. Also her boyfriend breaking up with her, final exam time, and her looking forward to coming over and being over here, away from mom. It's a bitter victory. I still want to tell my teens, "she is your mom and she cares about you, and I agree with your mom, or I'm glad your mom did 'this and that" with you" but it's getting harder and harder. The praises are getting less and less. |
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Post by ted on May 21, 2018 21:20:41 GMT -5
[....] Have the check ready before the 25th or I will deduct the amount from your June child support payment. [....] LOL, the judge is going to love that one! I'm so glad you're no longer alone in standing up to this crazy-ass narc. She still thinks she's in control, huh? Some people have to learn the hard way. Keep the posts coming; I'm gonna fetch some popcorn. |
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