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Post by mescaline on Oct 10, 2017 9:32:57 GMT -5
You're my new role model!
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Post by mescaline on Oct 4, 2017 7:24:30 GMT -5
Thanks again Flashjohn, I'm still getting through your blog and the myriad of posts on here. Also, still recovering a bit from Northstarmom's post, it was a suckerpunch, but one I needed, and have needed for a long time.
I need to keep it together for now though, nothing is planned for financially or emotionally yet and that needs to be sorted first. Thinking about going back for counselling, but with the specific goal of sorting myself out mentally to leave, rather than fixing something I can't on my own.
I've barely spoken to my wife this last week. We play happy families while the kids are up and about, which I find surprisingly easy: My wife is still the same person and we share similar parenting, relegious and political views, have the same sense of humour etc. It's just when we're alone together when I start thinking of her as my wife, rather than the mother of our kids, when I feel depressed and need to avoid her. It's not the right time to have "that conversation" yet.
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Post by mescaline on Oct 4, 2017 7:17:05 GMT -5
My take on this is that it's a diversion tactic by your wife. She won't tell you what 'wooing' means and if she did I'm betting she'd suddenly come up with something else for you to do before she'd be willing to have sex. I'd agree. But how do we know? That's the really frustrating part for me, there's always the "what ifs", I'm certain most of the SM community fall into the "moving the goalposts" category, but there's always going to be outliers in the statistical analysis and "what if" my/your SM is one of them? How long do we keep trying to fix something that appears unfixable, but may not be? It's so easy to tie yourself up in mental knots when dealing with this crap!
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Post by mescaline on Oct 4, 2017 7:12:38 GMT -5
Its so nice having so much support and knowing you all relate. Definitely makes me feel just a tad less lonely. Now if only one of you lived in my town lol. Ha ha! It's great to find a place where people understand your perspective and can offer so much empathy. I wish my wife could do the same for me, actually I wish I could do the same for her for that matter. Either side of a great divide and all that.
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Post by mescaline on Oct 1, 2017 10:05:26 GMT -5
You're right Northstarmom. I need this kind of blunt talk to snap me out of this morass. I've been looking for answers and solutions to things that are ultimately just a waste of my time. Thank you.
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Post by mescaline on Oct 1, 2017 0:50:29 GMT -5
Hi Northstarmom, yes I guess you're right, she is comfortable being closed off.
It is a dealbreaker for me, I won't be staying permanently if the situation continues (which according to the evidence it will). I have seen how her parents are - exactly as you describe - emotionally closed and living as housemates. I have told her I think they should separate. There's no way I'm sticking in a marriage like that for no reason.
Yet, as I've seen in so many posts on here, there's that little bit of me that thinks "if only she could open up, things would get better" I would love to help her be the person she can be, her childhood wasn't happy and I can see why she behaves the way she does. Even if it means we split up at least she could then be happy and that would benefit the kids too. I think there could be an element of codependence involved with our relationship something else to explore.
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Post by mescaline on Sept 30, 2017 2:53:04 GMT -5
Thank you for posting your story. I have broken it down to the issues I see. 1. If she refuses counseling, then it seems that she does not care about this issue. It is important to you, but she doesn't care. It is logical to believe that she does not care about you. 2. I understand trying to reduce your sex drive. I did this myself, but nothing worked. I also don't think it is good to try to change your nature. You have as much right to a satisfying sex life as anyone else. Your W is the one who has independently decided to foist a sexless marriage on you. You signed up for monogamy, not celibacy. 3. I am guessing counseling made you realize that you cannot make a better marriage alone. Your W has to participate for it to work. 4. Avoiding your wife and not seeing her as a sexual being sounds to me like you are already checked out emotionally. It happens when there is no sex. It is like a brick wall with no mortar. There is nothing to hold the bricks together and eventually the wall is going to collapse. I am betting you will continue to emotionally detach from her until you resent her or have no feelings for her at all. 5. You sound like a wonderful man & husband. But why should you have to support two households? Your W is an adult, not a child. She has made the independent decision to stop being a wife and just be a roommate. Roommates have to support themselves. If your wife wants a marriage partnership, she is going to have to act like a wife who loves and desires her husband. My friend, I understand your feeling that you are stuck. I felt the same way for a long time, but I was wrong. You can do something about this & make your life much better if you want. Keep reading and posting here and you may feel that you can make other choices. But we will support you whether you stay or decide to leave. If you are interested, there is a link to my blog at the bottom of this post. I wrote a lot about my feelings toward the end of my nightmare of a marriage. You may see some of your feelings there. Thanks Flashjohn, I've had a quick look at your blog and can certainly relate to the parts I've read. I'll try and read/digest it over a longer period too, I think my thought processes have settled into a pattern that I'm going to find hard to break. Your summary of my story is pretty accurate too. Though I would caveat a couple of points: 1) I don't know why she has refused counselling she said at the time that she didn't think things were bad enough. She was quite emotional and I didn't want to delve into a deep conversation at that point for fear of escalating the situation, she was upset rather than angry I should add. I suspect that she has a significant fear of opening up to anyone, exposing her vulnerability. So I'm not sure that she doesn't care, maybe she just doesn't know how to care? Or I'm just making excuses to hide the truth from myself. 2) True, though I'm sure there would be some people who would argue that once/twice a year doesn't equal celibacy. Doesn't change my feelings though. 3) Exactly, one person in relationship cannot fix it, especially if they have no idea what the problem is. To be honest I'm more pissed off about the lack of communication about this issue than the lack of sex. 4) Unfortunately I don't think I have checked out emotionally. I have been trying to, I know the theory behind withdrawing and distancing myself to make life easier and a potential split easier for both of us, and I have been putting it into action for numerous reasons. I haven't reached the point of checking out yet though, there's still that little bit of optimism that things may change, even if all the evidence points to the contrary. 5) You're not the first to say similar, and I agree, but I also agreed to provide for the family until the kids went to secondary school. I'm okay with breaking my promise of marriage to my wife, I'm not okay with breaking my promise to the kids, even if it wasn't explicitly said to them! I suppose I have mentally separated out the marriage issues from the parenthood issues, and feel that my responsibilities to the latter are far greater than the former. I may come back to this after I've had a think. Please feel free to pull apart my justifications for my choices, I'm aware I need some objective viewpoints and having the experience you and everyone else on this forum has I'd love to learn from it.
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Post by mescaline on Sept 29, 2017 8:02:40 GMT -5
That was what led me to experiment neonspace. I thought anything was worth a try, I did fully research it beforehand, it wasn't purely a kneejerk response, and having a bit of science background I kind of understood what I needed to do - check out the impacts and side effects, find out a reliable, legal source that could be verified by an external agency. Then checked out dosage levels and what they were typically used for treating. All that kind of stuff.
Didn't seem to work very well, and I didn't want to up the dosage too high due to side effects (I'm HL, not seeking to be trans!). Also, the potential for knackering my own internal body chemistry was a bit of a fear.
Not something I would recommend for a range of reasons.
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Post by mescaline on Sept 29, 2017 6:57:09 GMT -5
lifeinwoodinville - I'm sorry you're in the same boat. For what it's worth I don't think any of us are schmucks, just trying to find a way out of a situation we've ended up in without causing too much harm to the ones we love. That's a pretty good goal to aim for in my opinion.
On the plus side, while I'm avoiding my wife I do get a lot of housework done. I never realised quite how much time TV absorbed!
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Post by mescaline on Sept 29, 2017 6:53:51 GMT -5
That's a very good point DryCreek, I'm often guilty of assuming the normal way is the easier/better/safer option, but I need to explore other avenues before settling for that. It may well be that my wife's business starts to take off (there is potential there) in which case the whole situation could switch anyway, but probably best to assume that financially the status quo we have at present will remain for the foreseeable.
Of course, this is completely ignoring the emotional and mental health side of the relationship break down and likely end. I may come back for some help on that soon.
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Post by mescaline on Sept 28, 2017 23:48:39 GMT -5
Thanks again everyone.
Iceman - I have tried to talk to my wife about it, I got the usual excuses - too tired, stressed etc. understandable but no suggestions on how to change things. I started doing more chores, offered to take the kids out for the day so she could have some me time. The usual stuff suggested by forums. Recently she has said she's perimenopausal (at 38), and that this is normal. May be it is for her. I haven't pushed the issue to the n-th degree yet as I didn't want her to force herself to have a sexual relationship if she didn't want to.
Drycreek - I'm in England so slightly different rules here regarding spousal maintenance, however you're quite right. Most Lawyers here offer a free 30minutes initial consultation, so I'm going to start off down that route very soon. At least I'll know where I stand then. I have no problem paying child maintenance or supporting the family, but I need to be in a position to provide a home for me and the kids. At the moment I can't. My wife runs a small business from home and helps out at the kids school, she wanted to be able to stay-at-home until the kids went to secondary school. I was happy to do this and I feel strongly I shouldn't back out of this agreement. More so than actually getting a divorce! Weird, but true.
Daddeeo - Very similar! I had the snip a few years back and had exactly the same thoughts! I think I spent longer on the operating table than we have had sex in the intervening years! Seems a bit pointless in retrospect...
Smartkat and tirefire - Thank you, I know I'm normal. My Counsellor made that very clear. I thought I'd try anything to make things easier/happier for me. I thought the lack of sex was the only thing wrong with our marriage and if I could remove that element it would all fall in to place. Obviously I was wrong! We are friends, we have similar views and work well as parents, but the lust and laughter has died. Communication is shot to piecies, I wish with all my heart I could fix things, but over the years that hope is fading and I think I need to start some long term planning now.
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Post by mescaline on Sept 28, 2017 7:18:14 GMT -5
Wise words too Padgemi.
I try to be the best person I can be, and set a good example to the kids. It isn't always (rarely) easy, but they do provide the required incentive. Unfortunately, I do fall into some of the behaviours often highlighted as abusive - neglecting, unsupportive etc. however, I would qualify this by explaining that it isn't a deliberate calculated response. It is the result of my withdrawal from situations that are unpleasant and painful to me. From a rational point of view I can see it is probably counterproductive to our marriage, but from a personal perspective it keeps me sane.
I need to read 1984 again, get some tips on "doublethink" techniques...
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Post by mescaline on Sept 28, 2017 7:10:42 GMT -5
Thanks for the quick responses everyone. Just read my original post back again and it seems a bit "matter of fact", I guess I've learnt to hide emotional content a fair bit. I'm worried about my wife, she has very low self esteem in both her abilities and her body. She shouldn't have, she's attractive and smart (we're in England and she holds a better University education than me). She won't talk to me, her friends, family or professionals about any of her personal problems and has a head-in-the-sand approach to the marital problems I've raised. If we separate I'm not sure what the impact would be. I'm tired though, I don't enjoy putting on a brave face, I've limited my life so much over the past three years to give her the space I thought she wanted. I no longer watch TV in the evenings, I go to bed early, get up early to avoid her and give her the opportunity to have a lie in every Saturday and Sunday (the only days I can get up and help with the kids). I spend too much time in the garage just avoiding being with her, and sharing a bed at night (if I'm awake when she comes up) is painful - there's no physical intimacy these days. I don't enjoy coming home from work. I'd love to be able to share my thoughts and feelings but it's probably too late for that as I've withdrawn following so many rejections. But I still love her, like a mug. Since you have suggested counselling, I am going to assume that you and your co-parent have discussed the issue... or at least have tried to discuss it. Have you tried to talk about having a FWB with her? I have thought about outsourcing, but I would be very worried about falling for any new partner and end up leaving anyway. I'm not sure my view of sex is sufficiently compartmentalised to be able to do this. I have to say that I'm jealous of everyone who has made this work!
That means either stay or leave. For now I'm choosing to stay, selfishly so I can keep seeing my kids. As they get older I expect this will change, particularly taking your advice Baza:
"Of course, any issue one deals with that involve a choice, information is critical so you can make a fully informed choice."
I plan on getting as much information as possible over the near future. There is a lot of fear about the economic impact such a decision would have on my children, and it would be useful to know exactly what this would be. I know there are several options available to me, but making an enemy of my children's primary carer would be the worst course of action in my opinion.
Ironhamster - Thanks for your advice about the kids, I know it will need to be broached at some point hoping for that to be a while yet though. For what it's worth, I agree about "cheating" it's so much more nuanced and every case is different. Society does like a villain (or scapegoat) though so I can kind of see why it happens - doesn't make it right to oversimplify relationships this way of course.
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Post by mescaline on Sept 28, 2017 3:07:09 GMT -5
Hello Folks, thought I'd better get the story of my SM down.
I've been with my wife for about 15 years now, we have two kids son (8 years) daughter (6 years). Sex life at the start of our relationship was great. We seemed to be on the same page in terms of frequency, what we did/didn't like and all that. SO after five years of fun I thought I'd pop the question, things stayed pretty much the same until she started wanting kids (to be fair I was pretty ambivalent, but figured it was what was expected and why not). Then with trying to conceive for 18 months, a miscarriage and all the associated trauma, sex felt mechanical, a means to an end as I understand it often does. Anyway, eventually my wife fell pregnant. She had very bad morning sickness (all through the day!) for pretty much the whole nine months, so our sex life suffered (disappeared), then breastfeeding apparently reduced libido significantly, so again nothing for a further six months. Then the one time we did have sex, she fell pregnant again! So the whole cycle started all over.
Anyway, after daughter was born, our sex life never really resumed. I tried to initiate but was rejected pretty much every time, when we did have sex it was on her terms. About three years ago I gave up trying, I told her this. Since then in 2015 we did it twice, 2016 - once, 2017 - twice. So that's where we are, why I'm here and wondering what the hell happened.
I have tried to fix things one way or another. I suggested counselling, but was rebuffed. I've tried to reduce my own sex drive through various methods - hormones, herbal, psychoactive substances, CBT and good old masturbation. I've been to counselling on my own to see if it was my problem. Nothing works permanently. I'm running out of options really.
Also, I'm worrying more and more about the impact this is having on our children. I actively avoid my wife when it's just me and her, I'm trying to view her purely as the mother of our children rather than as a sexual being in her own right. A kind of manufactured "Madonna/whore complex" if you will! Family time is fine, we don't argue, our focus is on the children, but it won't be long before they're old enough to see the cracks, and when we start talking in detail about adult relationships I'm really going to struggle. How do you tell your kids not to copy the marriage you're in? I know parents are supposed to be hypocritical, but to that extent?
At the moment though my wife is primary carer, I work and the household is financially dependent on me. The kids are settled at school, so any kind of separation would result in me moving out of our home. I can't afford to run two households big enough for me and my kids. So if I move out I would only see them during the day it would be crap for me, though I think they would cope fine.
Anyway, that's a brief synopsis of me. Make of it what you will!
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Post by mescaline on Sept 28, 2017 2:44:12 GMT -5
I'm sure you're right again. Hobsons choice situation from my perspective though, and presently this is the lesser of two evils in my judgement. At the moment anyway. My friend, I see you are starting to show the signs of a change. If you have a chance, take a look at some early posts by shamwow . You may see someone who also had some hesitance about moving on. Thanks flashjohn, there's a fair amount to wade through. Yet a journey of a thousand miles starts with a few small steps...
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