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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 15, 2017 10:27:40 GMT -5
Hey Sham! I just read your advice, your POV on the topic and I agree with that too and the approach for tiffanyc to take control and make sure she gets what she wants. I'm all in favor for one to advocate for themselves and make things happen the way they want it to. Sometimes we have to model behavior too. Sometimes we have to spell it out say exactly what we want and then if we don't get it the choice is ours and the consequences we have to live with. I agree with your POV too and yes you are a hoot too! And us guys are pretty dense sometimes too. If often takes a 2x4 upside the head to get the message across. I've always found it strange that women seem to think we can read minds when the evidence continuously show how damn clueless us guys usually are. Please note, tiffanyc, I am not suggesting a 2x4 in a literal sense as a marital aid. Lol oh I wouldn't use a 2X4. I have a good castiron pan that would work better. 😉
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 15, 2017 10:26:00 GMT -5
I think that my reply from a guy's perspective and bballgirl reply from a woman's perspective is kind of revealing here. bballgirl and I chat often in PM and on KIK. We each think the other is a hoot, and I imagine we will chat about this later But it's interesting we see this from completely different perspectives. I totally get what she is saying about not wanting to be a fuck-hole. Who the hell wants that? I also stick by my statement that he has probably been shut down enough times that he doesn't really give a crap about pleasing you, knowing that he will likely just have his hands slapped away and be rejected again. How you "fix" the situation (or whether it can be fixed) depends entirely on the dynamic between you and your husband. To me, it sounds like you both refuse each other when things don't go how you like. That isn't exactly a healthy relationship, regardless of the "fuck count". I agree with bballgirl that you and your husband simply may not be compatible. But that isn't something this armchair psychologist can say from a distance. But it is something you should think about. I have been thinking about it. And as I've said before, it's like once he put a ring on it, it felt like he wasn't as interested in keeping up the romance end anymore.
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 15, 2017 9:33:05 GMT -5
Okay. I get what you're saying. I'm not trying to place blame here it's just after 16 yrs of trying over and over to improve things and him refusing me it's confusing for me. I have been very specific on what I'm looking for. Ex: "I want us to be more affectionate, like we used to be. Holding hands, cuddling, that kind of thing." H: " come on, I cuddle. I hold your hand." Me: " you don't cuddle, you just grab my tits, butt or between my legs. And in bed you just push your dick against me." H: "what's the difference?" And yes, this was an actual discussion we had about five months ago! So again, explain how I am supposed to fix this? Perhaps YOU start by holding HIS hand or sitting next to him on the couch and snuggling close. When he grabs your tits / ass / crotch? Gently move his hand to where you want it to go (maybe on your thigh or around your waist) and whisper in his ear something like "shhhh...that's coming...one step at a time". But when you say that, you MUST FOLLOW THROUGH. If you don't? You will have one (justifiably) frustrated / pissed off man on your hands. There is an inverse correlation between how long / how many times a man has been refused and how much he really gives a shit about his refuser's pleasure. Right now, I'm guessing he doesn't give a flying fuck and isn't going to invest anything emotionally just to get smacked down again. Bear in mind, this is from a refused guy's perspective. You might not get it / agree since you're on the other side of the fence. However, at this point, I would suggest the onus is on you. I have been the one to initiate the cuddling. When we've gone on long car trips, walking through the mall when we head to the nearest city(2 he's away) I reach out to him. Even on our two week vacation last year at Grand Teton I did this. What happened? Without even looking at me, he'll squeeze my hand once or twice then let go. This is his pattern and has been since about year 2 of our marriage. But it wasn't always that way and I have told him that.
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 15, 2017 9:10:55 GMT -5
Okay. I get what you're saying. I'm not trying to place blame here it's just after 16 yrs of trying over and over to improve things and him refusing me it's confusing for me. I have been very specific on what I'm looking for. Ex: "I want us to be more affectionate, like we used to be. Holding hands, cuddling, that kind of thing." H: " come on, I cuddle. I hold your hand." Me: " you don't cuddle, you just grab my tits, butt or between my legs. And in bed you just push your dick against me." H: "what's the difference?" And yes, this was an actual discussion we had about five months ago! So again, explain how I am supposed to fix this? Okay... he asked "what's the difference? He may honestly not understand. Do you then clam up. Like you did on this post? Walking away blaming him for all of it? Honestly... (I say this with a smile) If my wife had grabbed my chest, my butt, or between my legs, and in bed had pushed her boobs into my face, there would be constant action! So.. again it sounds like he answered your question, with his question, "what's the difference?" Did he get an answer? A solid concrete example? Done multiple times? Then you can honestly say, " I went above and beyond, I did more than my fair share". There are woman on here who throw there naked bodies at their men, give them BJ's and get nothing in return. Now that's a "how do I fix this situation!" Yes I gave him an answer. I told him the difference was that cuddling means you just hold me, not trying to screw. I've told him that when he just grabs me that way it makes me feel like I should be charging you or something. It's frustrating when I am blunt to what I want yet he makes me feel like stupid for speaking my mind and now I'm feeling that way again. Don't even know why I posted this stupid thread.
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 15, 2017 8:48:18 GMT -5
You will now (most likely ) get better answers from others. I would like to say that I went through some episodes similar to this with my wife. She would occasionally ask me to "hold her hand when we walked from the car to church. Open the car door for her when we were going to a movie. Pull her chair our for her at a restaurant, etc... I would then have to explain to her. We sit at a booth at a restaurant, there is no chair, or your daddy is with us he sits next to you, I don't even get to reach the chair. You get out of the car before I have a chance to even get to the other side. You also said, over 12 years ago, "we can't afford to eat out anymore". We've been pushing strollers, walking kids by the hands for years, we now ride in separate cars, you also walk way to slow for me, and THE MOST IMPORTANT, when we are together at home, when was the last time you came to bed naked? Gave me a passionate kiss, ever touched my dick? So....Hell no I don't want to hold your hand. It's all about control, and denial and reversing the blame. Let me throw this out there. Is your H used to following orders? Are they very specific? Do you give him specifics or generalities? Do you give him examples? Like, "take me here for dinner tonight, and when we get home I will make it worth your while" you light the candles, you put on the music, you make a hotel reservation, you send the kids to a friends house, you redirect his hands to your hair, Hand him a hair brush, your face, ask him to kiss it all over, you ask for longer kisses, you ask him to stroke your back first, then take your clothes off, ask him to kiss your whole body, tell him not to fall asleep directly afterwards, lets sit on the couch naked together afterwards wrapped in a blanket, lets go out and look at the stars after having sex etc... (I offered all these things to my W. Only to be rejected) Yes my husband follows direction, hell he was a Marine plus he's also used to giving them having been in a Boss position in both the Marines and his current job. Yes I have been specific in what I want. Telling him I want him to just hold me. That I like when he does this or that during sex and I want more of that or more of this. As for us doing things just us, that's not easy. We live in a small town no where near family. Yes our kids are 14 & 12 and can stay by themselves should we want to go out to dinner, but the town we live in has NO nightlife. There are more Mexican restaurants than anything else and only two are worth going out to. Believe me, I would love to have an actual DATE night. Go somewhere, talk, laugh, eat. Then come home, cuddle, touch, tease, then either make love or have hot sweaty monkey sex. I've told him this. He treats it like a chore rather than having fun with it. I've even gone as far as trying to do this at home with the kids there! Make his favorite meal, put on a little black dress, after dinner I did the dishes then curled up on his lap. What did I get? A thanks for dinner and a few minutes of holding. And this was BEFORE I started struggling with my sex drive.
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 15, 2017 8:32:00 GMT -5
You will never get a refuser to read any book that has anything to do with relationships. You want to know why? Because that would acknowledge there is a problem. I offered my wife a deal years ago, I handed her a copy of The Sex Starved Marriage and said "Please just read the first page, if you don't think that is our relationship she is talking about I will throw the book away and never bring it up again." Her response "I'm not reading anything in THAT book!" Nice. So, since I'm the refuser you're saying I wouldn't read that? Newsflash, I actually HAVE that book.
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 15, 2017 8:27:38 GMT -5
Welcome
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 15, 2017 8:07:48 GMT -5
You do speak quite vaguely. Much like my refuser when she commits DARVO and is reversing everything. The only concrete fact is....? well there aren't any. The closest was "it more than likely won't happen" and what you assume he will do. Instead of generalities like "I make the first move" be specific, give some examples, and you will receive much better advice. For example, there may have been "first moves" on my wife's part about a number of topics that went right past me. Again I am not a mind reader. While other men would say, "what does that mean? what does she expect from you? Are you supposed to ask a ton more questions until you finally get it right? Who want's to play these manipulative games? Then there are ladies who would say," exactly my H does the same thing! They just don't get it. Happily shifting the blame." Facts, details, specifics, lay your cards on the table! Okay. I get what you're saying. I'm not trying to place blame here it's just after 16 yrs of trying over and over to improve things and him refusing me it's confusing for me. I have been very specific on what I'm looking for. Ex: "I want us to be more affectionate, like we used to be. Holding hands, cuddling, that kind of thing." H: " come on, I cuddle. I hold your hand." Me: " you don't cuddle, you just grab my tits, butt or between my legs. And in bed you just push your dick against me." H: "what's the difference?" And yes, this was an actual discussion we had about five months ago! So again, explain how I am supposed to fix this?
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 15, 2017 7:45:22 GMT -5
Not knowing the full details of his behaviors, feelings, and motivation makes it hard to say. Maybe he has gotten sick of your refusing and become avoidant towards sex. Maybe it's counter refusal coming back at you. That could be except these issues have been going on even before I started having issues. Yet I can't talk to him about it because he shuts down.
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 15, 2017 7:33:30 GMT -5
Okay, I'm just curious about something.
Yes, I am the refuser in my relationship and as I was replying to another post someone said I have the power to initiate sex.
While it may seem that way, it's not. I know my H isn't a mind reader, yet in the past few years there have been times when I do make the first move and it's backfired.
Now, I don't know if it's because I haven't shown as much interest in sex as H has or what, but whenever I have tried to it hasn't been successful.
For me, sex is more than just sex. I want to feel the connection, to feel desired, it feel intimate. And before you guys say anything YES I HAVE TOLD HIM THIS.
Yet it doesn't seem to matter to him. When he's horny he just wants sex. Plain and simple. True there are times I feel the same, but not many.
So explain to me how I have the power?
Several people have mentioned the love languages and I can tell you right now, getting my H to read the book, let alone take the quiz more than likely won't happen. He'll just roll his eyes and tune me out.
A friend of ours said something to him once about tying to reconnect and he blew them off. This is a friend who knows both of us and has offered advice to help. I've listened and he hasn't.
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 15, 2017 7:24:04 GMT -5
Tiffany, you are the refuser. Why do you keep saying, "we" will wait and see how things pan out? You have been the one refusing sex. If you asked for a quickie before your husband headed to work or if you yourself naked and say, "let's do it" or, you are such a stud," at bedtime, he'd likely eagerly comply and provide sex. Have you taken our advice and told him how much you enjoyed your last encounter and what made it pleasureable or are you still waiting for him to read your mind? You continue to portray yourself as powerless when you have power to create a romantic and sexy marriage. Did you ever celebrate your anniversary or are you still waiting for your husband to do something even though he worked that day and you don't work at all? You could choose to initiate sex in a romantic way. Do you ever initiate sex? Every sex -loving person enjoys being desired. Many of the refused here are not only tired of being refused, they are discouraged and depressed because their partner's don't initiate sex . Yes I have told him that I enjoyed it. As for celebrating our anniversary no, and only because the last two days just as I'm about to bring it up, he's been called back to work. Ugh curse of him being on-call
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 15, 2017 7:21:21 GMT -5
Funny how you put this in the Off Topic section. Feeling good should be in the Main Topic.🙌 Lol maybe it should
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 15, 2017 6:39:44 GMT -5
Why wouldn't it last? You have been the refuser. What would keep you from having great sex frequently? After all, you have been the uninterested one. What changed yesterday? Did you tell him with words how much you enjoyed it and specifically what he did that was pleasing? Being refused erodes most people's' confidence about their sexual abilities and attractiveness. What is your husband's love language? There are quick tests one can take online to find this out. If he knows you'd like him to take one so you could communicate better with him, he may happily do that. I'd bet that in general, he has felt unappreciated and unloved just as you have. Maybe both of you yesterday communicated in ways the other understood. Well, the reason I said I'm not expecting it to last it because of what has become routine for us. Sure we've had a few good days but ultimately something pops up and he goes back to complaining about something and therefore making me feel like I'm not good enough in some form or fashion. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 15, 2017 6:29:26 GMT -5
For me it was two days ago. But we'll wait and see how things play out.
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 14, 2017 11:37:55 GMT -5
Well, had a....REALLY good evening last night. 😁😁😁😁
Course not expecting it to last but H and I had a fun interlude before bed.
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