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Post by doneanddone on May 5, 2017 13:46:59 GMT -5
So one of the reasons she says she stopped having sex was because she was afraid of accidentally getting pregnant. So my question to the fellas is has the thought of a vasectomy or the conversation of having it done ever come up and if so did you do it with positive results or did you do it and no change? Obviously, you would have come to the conclusion of getting it done for other reasons that just to have sex and not get wife, girlfriend, lover, fiance.....pregnant so I'm just curious as to those who have had it done what the outcome was for the sexless issues if that was an excuse or reason your refuser withheld sex with you......
Well instead of starting a whole new thread i figured the best way to vent is to go to one of my own and just type out the frustrations.
Like some I am in my head quite a bit and this week is no exception. Work has been hell so far and even though today is Thursday that doesn't make it better. Had an awful last few days and while today is looking to be ending on a promising note going into Friday, i just felt like something wasn't right and needed to come here and let my fingers do the typing and my thoughts flow like crazy.
Still no sex since....i don't know when and don't care to waste the time to try and remember when it was last. I just am getting more and more frustrated with the situation every day when i get home and have to fake it with my wife that everything is alright. I hate the same dull boring routine. I have tried to mix it up. I've tried to change what I do when I get home but the fact of the matter is, it's just the same old boring fucking life I've been living for the past several years with no real hope or light at the end of the tunnel. The last conversation we had about sex ended up shifting over to how society has changed the way sex is viewed and social media is the root of all the problems of the world. But I was able to squeeze into that conversation which was about 2 weeks ago now with no change in attitude, that I had scheduled a consultation with a Urologist to talk about a vasectomy. So I called my PHC and asked for a consult, he sent it to me via online, I called and bam....got an appointment to talk to a Urologist about possibly getting the snip snip next week. I sent a text to my wife letting her know what I did......nothing. Didn't even phase her. All she said was "As long as you are good, I'm good". What the fuck.
*********************************UPDATE*************************************** Just a quick update on this post i started a few weeks back. Went to my consultation appointment and locked in the date. Next week i get the snip snip. I'm pretty psyched about it actually. I know some out there are probably thinking this guy is crazy for getting this done but I know in my heart of hearts that I personally do not want to have anymore children. My wife who is the refuser in our SM and can't understand why I see her as the refuser but none the less, agrees that she does not want to have anymore children but that is no longer up to her to decide because I've made that decision for the both of us just as she did for us not having sex. This will be the definitively determining factor of whether or not I choose to stay or go. There will be a grace period after the procedure I'll have to wait before sex without a condom is OK but i can be working on next steps during that time, usually like 3-5 weeks but hey I've already gone this long so whats a few more added weeks of no sex that I already don't get right....? I'm literally holding her to her word that if her biggest reason for not wanting to have sex is fear of getting pregnant then I will have that box checked and off the table for discussion and it should be game on. If not, she'll have a very difficult time explaining or even attempting to theorize or conjure up another justifiable, rational reason. To which she will have at that time lost all credibility and respect with me. I'm excited to begin this process and start moving in a direction of resolution. This might be the most dramatic first step in anyone's process but it fits for me and I'm looking forward to it. Oh and if you are wondering what if later on down the road another relationship happens and they want children? For me, if that was to happen, that would be first and foremost discussion and that is children are off the table to which that relationship would either work or not. I'll be updating this particular post as time moves on but for now wish me luck...... I've heard a bag of frozen peas works best for post procedure and I'm gonna stop on the way home today and pick some up, i just hope she doesn't get the craving for frozen peas and cooks them before my procedure...... *********************************UPDATE #2 *************************************** Just a quick update. Got the procedure done last Friday and back to work on Monday. Things have been pretty easy thus far. Still quite tender and sore but no real visible swelling or complications. I am bruised up like I just went 12 rounds with Julio Cesar Chavez. That's where the tenderness is coming from. Feels like someone is squeezing my balls all the time. But I do have some good meds to combat the pain if it gets too intense. Hopefully things will return to normal in a week or so. Until then, I'll be icing my bag every night and making sure not to go jogging for awhile.....
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Post by doneanddone on May 5, 2017 11:34:58 GMT -5
Ok - just spitballing here. Is there ever an upside to accepting reset sex? A downside? My exit plan is firmly in place - everything is in order - have attorney's on speed dial, cash, even know where I'm going to live after. The actual celibacy might possibly be killing me at this point 😞 He's been attempting reset pretty regularly (after being out - with a few cocktails)........ How detrimental do y'all think it would be if I go along with it one time? Still leaving, plans still in place, but, a warm body might be nice for the time being. I'm actually pretty conflicted about this. Not big on "using" people, but we are actually married here. So....... Ugh...... this is tough When my first marriage was pretty much over and she had all but moved out and was living with a friend, she came by one evening to get some more of her stuff. I had friends over for a playoff game and before she left with her last round of stuff, I bent her over in the bathroom for one final hoorah.....We both knew what it was at that point and were happy with it. That marriage ended for other reason not related to sex but the sex was good with her it was just not a good match for either of us. We were young, like real young. Early 20's so it didn't last but a couple of years if that. So if you can handle the moment and know it's nothing more than a quickie, i say go for it but be wise not to allow it to linger in your thoughts or his.
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Post by doneanddone on May 5, 2017 6:26:56 GMT -5
Why don't you suggest leaving the little one in your bed and go up and bang in the little one's room (on the floor of course... Might be weird to do it in the little one's bed) I guarantee she is not expecting THAT angle... I actually ended up telling my wife that if she'd rather not move her into her own bed, I'd be more than happy to sleep on the couch or in the spare bedroom......I ended up binge watching last season of GOT in preparation of this season and crashed on the couch... At this point I'm not suggesting anything from her. I know where my cock is, she knows where my cock is and if she wants to have sex, she'll have to make the move...I'm done.
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Post by doneanddone on May 4, 2017 18:25:33 GMT -5
So the wife has now started a new deflection tactic of "unintentionally" allowing our daughter to watch television in our room while we eat dinner and she just happens to fall asleep. And since she is sleeping we shouldn't wake her to move her to her bed. I've moved her the last two nights ti which the wife has then gotten pissed at me and this is happening again tonight. Random...? I don't think so..
It's time for the next level conversation....
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Post by doneanddone on May 4, 2017 15:57:11 GMT -5
I have a bit of a twist. Recently, i decided that it was time to push the issue again concerning the continued and now worsening condition of our relationship, including largely the forced celibacy (although she had now also withdrawn all other forms of physical contact and emotional intimacy as well as late). She has now determined that it would be a good idea if i leave. So, in my case, my partner actually met my complaints with calling time of death. No fixing this. Sex (but also everything else) no longer up for discussion. No cpunseling necessary either. She is right, although we shall see if this sticks ... Call her shit bro..... See just how far she is willing to take it? Sounds to me like your mind is made up and all that's left is popping the bottle of bubbly when the ink is dry. I'd be curious to hear what happens.
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Post by doneanddone on May 4, 2017 15:49:45 GMT -5
I'm hopeful it can be.....
I'm open to trying.....
I also am a realist.....
If at first you don't succeed try, try again. And if you continue to not succeed, don't force it, try a different approach. And if you continue to not succeed and have exhausted all available means and resources, it's not fault, move on and call it what it is, a successful attempt with an outcome justified by the attempts and continued trying.....
I'm hopeful it can be.....
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Post by doneanddone on May 4, 2017 15:12:38 GMT -5
Thanks all. Apparently this is the weekend to let me in on all of my shortcomings and how much of a failure i am as a spouse and father. It can mean all or it can mean nothing to me, but her kind of rationalizing after the fact self serving commentary is hurtful nevertheless ... I know what is coming. I am not prepared in the manner recommended by the wise members of this group. Not taking it personal is a learned trait. It has taken me nearly 10 years to listen to my wife, hear the words that she says, interpret the intent, interpret the context, comprehend, formulate a response then just shake my head......or mumble yes or no. Any further engagement in conversations like you are describing would not go well for either my wife or me. I sometimes process my thoughts at a much faster pace than my wife and can usually get to the end result well before she can and it is the stops along the way to get to the end result that she wants to make where I am lets get this over with.
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Post by doneanddone on May 4, 2017 14:56:41 GMT -5
I break intimacy down to two different categories, because of confusion between the physical aspect and the mental aspect. I call the physical side affection, ie. touching, hugging, kissing, and other types of touching that is more than you would do for a relative or very close friend. This type of intimacy/affection is still very important to a thriving marriage IMHO. I was missing that in my marriage. There were times I would crave any touch, from about anyone, because of my ex's aversion to touching. The other intimacy is the opening yourself up to another. Showing a vulnerability to your spouse. A willingness to let them know all about you, to see your true self. Your fears, your hopes, your desires....all the things that are important to you, both positive and negative. And they do the same. I didn't have that, either. My willingness wasn't matched, for reasons of her own (valid for her). It was her unwillingness to actually give a shit about mine, and give a shit about addressing the reasons for hers, that ended the marriage. Turned out, everything wasn't good except the sex. That was just the symptom.... Let me ask you this.... When you were opening up and being vulnerable were you able to NOT take what your spouse said or did personal? I guess where I am going with this is that when someone is being as open and as real as the can be without a wall or their guard up I am aware of what I say and what I do as to not put that person into a defensive mode and they shut the door or throw up a wall. For me the hardest thing to do is to NOT take what my wife says personal when I have opened up and shown no fear and just let myself be who I am with her. But when she says she does the same in the sense of NOT taking what I say personal when she is "opening up" she does get defensive and she does throw up the wall. So constructive criticism or feedback is something she cannot handle......well.....at all. The rationale she has about life and certain aspects of life are skewed from a delusional belief in magical ferry tales from her childhood that her family implanted in her from birth and because of that she continues to hold some of those beliefs today and that is why we are in the situation we are in now.
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Post by doneanddone on May 4, 2017 14:41:21 GMT -5
It may be unrealistic for us to have married someone without full explanations from each of: what do you think a healthy sex life IS? For my deal, both of our definitions simply changed over 25 years together. I don't believe that either of us (my Ex & me) are "at fault" for that. It's just a pity that our changes were in opposite directions instead of closer to each other's preferred definitions. No one is really at fault - either for not wanting it OR for "wanting too much" But I couldn't live happily (even moderately so) in the remains of the partnership that became the "current" reality. By the time I ended it, we had exceeded the "sell by" date by at least a few years (8, mebbe?) NCF - I think your W has simply created her own combination of semantics that she thought sounds good. Whether you accept/believe it is up to you. As you noted, it doesn't change any of the facts on the ground or the reality of what you're living with. I hope you find some way to your own happiness. "It may be unrealistic for us to have married someone without full explanations from each of: what do you think a healthy sex life IS?" Premarital counseling maybe maybe touches on this for half of a millisecond and that is because most places of worship that do the actual ceremony require the couple to go through some B.S. session with the person performing the ceremony. I can vividly remember when we did this and when the question was asked if we were having premarital sex I attempted to answer honestly and say yes but when I looked at the fiance it was her decision to say no for both of us but she had just had my junk in her mouth the night before. That was probably a sign missed on my part. After that it was never brought up again about sex in marriage. So do i think it should be more heavily discussed and expectations set before marriage, FUCK YEAH I DO. And if I have to start over that is exactly what I am going to do is lay out the expectations and if they change along the way from my original expectations I'm good with that but without any expectations set up front at the beginning of the marriage and a false sense of a continued healthy sex life with my wife only to find out she has decided for the both of us sex is no longer on the table......sometimes it just pisses me off more than others.... And to say no one is really at fault for either not wanting it or wanting too much I'm not sure I agree with. My Cause:I wish to have a healthy sex life to include intimacy (my perspective and definition) with my wife. My Wife's Cause:My wife does not wish to have a healthy sex life to include intimacy (her perspective and definition) with me. The Affect:Therefore I do not have a healthy sex life or intimacy with my wife. Or you can look at it as Impact, Action, Results. I wish... - Impact My wife does... - Action Therefore I do not... - Results For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. I know that's taking this to the max extreme but when it occupies your thoughts and emotions on a daily basis it is extreme. Is there a happy medium that can be reached to where no fault is established in these cases, very difficult to see that happening...very difficult. This will always be the outsider looking in point of view.
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Post by doneanddone on May 4, 2017 11:06:56 GMT -5
In a discussion about intimacy I asked " can intimacy be faked? ". Rather than hijack the thread, I'm asking it here. To be clear I'm not referring to kisses and cuddles and caresses. I'm referring to that connnection on a certain level. That sense of unity,mutual understanding and emotional closeness. For me it's " I get you. I really get you". Being totally in tune with eachother. If that's not felt by one party, can they fake it? As a few have already pointed out anything can be faked if the receiving party is believing the deceitful. I can call a liar a mile away so, it's a trait of the nature of my background and military training. Too easy to tell when someone is making something up but very difficult when that someone is your wife or husband because you want to believe in them and what they say or do. If you asked me if I thought my wife was faking intimacy or faking that she wants a specific type of intimacy and I am not providing that and that is a cause for our SM, I'd have a difficult time answering that because she says one thing and does another some of the time but not consistent enough for me to believe yet she might be faking it.
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Post by doneanddone on May 4, 2017 10:17:58 GMT -5
I agree sex people belong with sex people. But you will be hard pressed NOT to find any documented cases where intimacy was not part of the SM discussion. Whether be it part of the problem, resolution, or whatever, intimacy will forever co-exist with the issues involving a SM. It's one of the top 3 contributors. Physical contact or physical touch (both the same IMO) can or cannot have anything to do with either parties interpretation of intimacy, BUT, the lack there of is the only definitive and realistic reason a SM exists. Then comes the question of what is sex? Sex has multiple definitions when used in different contexts. For a SM it literally means no physical contact or physical touching, no hand jobs, no oral, no finger banging, no nipple pinching, no ass slapping, no intercourse.....nothing. It is at this point that if any discussions are to be had about the SM, the topic of "intimacy" comes into play. By which party of the SM is intimacy a reason, i don't know, it could be the refuser or the denied but either way intimacy will come up. And if used as an excuse for the refuser, a strong argument can be made by the denied that simply because we don't see intimacy the same as our refuser we don't surrender our willingness to participate in sex as they have....but we are willing and have attempted to address the refusers intimacy concerns and still are denied. I'm really not sure that the type of intimacy that your wife is looking for comes into what you've said you've 'done' to try to address it. I guess my question would be can intimacy be faked? I'll start a new thread so as not to hijack yours. hijack away....! and I do think intimacy can be faked. The only thing i don't believe can be faked are male orgasms as others have pointed out can be. But for me any man who fakes that has never been on the denied end of a SM or relationship and should have his testies chopped off for deceiving his partner....plus it's a slap in the face to us men who aren't getting any so men who do fake it are jackholes in my book. I'll be on the look out for your thread....thanks for the opinions....
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Post by doneanddone on May 4, 2017 9:13:37 GMT -5
The definition of intimacy for a women is going to be different than a mans. I've gone the extra mile and out of my way to accommodate her definition of intimacy and am still sexless. That's where my frustration and sometimes resentment comes from. I give give give give, initiate, initiate, initiate, initiate and get refused refused refused refused. So for me and my circumstances intimacy is over rated. But cheers for you in finding what it means to you and sharing. ty No. It's not gender-specific. There are plenty of women (dozens here in fact) that crave the connection you do. Not being some leftist-feminist here, just want you to realize that it's a genderless issue that boils down to two different personality types (love language types whatever) being matched up, legally bound by marriage. As simple as this statement is, it rings absolute truth imo (thanks Baza), "Sex people belong with Sex people". It's that simple. Otherwise we will continue to bang our heads against the wall trying to figure out why he/she/they won't have sex with us. We're not hideous, they're just not "sex" people. If we decide to stick it out in these mis-matched relationships for whatever reason, the sooner we accept it and try to find meaning in our lives in other ways, the better off we'll be. I've got to say though. A true "sex person" will NEVER be okay with no sex - I'm not even talking intimacy. I agree sex people belong with sex people. But you will be hard pressed NOT to find any documented cases where intimacy was not part of the SM discussion. Whether be it part of the problem, resolution, or whatever, intimacy will forever co-exist with the issues involving a SM. It's one of the top 3 contributors. Physical contact or physical touch (both the same IMO) can or cannot have anything to do with either parties interpretation of intimacy, BUT, the lack there of is the only definitive and realistic reason a SM exists. Then comes the question of what is sex? Sex has multiple definitions when used in different contexts. For a SM it literally means no physical contact or physical touching, no hand jobs, no oral, no finger banging, no nipple pinching, no ass slapping, no intercourse.....nothing. It is at this point that if any discussions are to be had about the SM, the topic of "intimacy" comes into play. By which party of the SM is intimacy a reason, i don't know, it could be the refuser or the denied but either way intimacy will come up. And if used as an excuse for the refuser, a strong argument can be made by the denied that simply because we don't see intimacy the same as our refuser we don't surrender our willingness to participate in sex as they have....but we are willing and have attempted to address the refusers intimacy concerns and still are denied.
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Post by doneanddone on May 3, 2017 18:34:27 GMT -5
I don't think cuddling is necessarily intimacy at all. For a long time we had a marriage where there was less and less physical contact - my wife doesn't feel it is that important and if I stepped back we would go for weeks barely touching each other. I am very touch-oriented and it was like torture for me. I remember a point 2 years ago when she touched the back of my neck and I could remember exactly what it felt like for about a week afterwards. In the last year and a half or so we have been talking a lot and going to counselling and the affection side of our relationship is transformed - we touch a lot more and hug and it is like a completely different marriage. But the sex is still not working because that requires a whole different level of intimacy. I think physical affection can be intimate, but very often it is more like 'comfortable'. It is an expression of love and caring and lets us feel like we belong somewhere. But it isn't intimacy, where you are willing to open yourself up and be vulnerable and let the other person inside (pun not really intended!). That is a great start to rekindling the sex. Appreciate the sharing. I'm an old school kind of guy and carry a lot of weight for the family so the other areas of our marriage that don't involve intimacy or physical touch somehow bleed over into those areas of intimacy, physical touch and sex. I don't by any means "expect" my wife to perform on command. But to be denied simply because of what I feel are selfish reasons makes it that more difficult to understand and accept with questioning. Again thanks for your comments.
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Post by doneanddone on May 3, 2017 17:48:02 GMT -5
Intimacy is definitely not over rated. The reason I am a counter refuser is due to lack of general intimacy more than a lack of sex. If I asked him to define intimacy he would probably say "sex" meaning being intimate equates just having sex. I honestly don't think he would grasp what true intimacy in a relationship is. Could I define it? I'm not sure. I just know we don't have it and it's not merely because we don't have sex. The definition of intimacy for a women is going to be different than a mans. I've gone the extra mile and out of my way to accommodate her definition of intimacy and am still sexless. That's where my frustration and sometimes resentment comes from. I give give give give, initiate, initiate, initiate, initiate and get refused refused refused refused. So for me and my circumstances intimacy is over rated. But cheers for you in finding what it means to you and sharing. ty
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Post by doneanddone on May 3, 2017 13:27:33 GMT -5
It has been so long since I've had sex, if and when I do again in the near future, I would literally feel like I was cheating on this unknown, faceless, women that I have yet to meet......
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