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Post by doneanddone on Feb 9, 2018 14:09:31 GMT -5
It’s time for this year’s installment of “Disparage your Marriage”, an occasional challenge to the commemorate the dysfunction of the sexless marriage in verse. (Poetry being a staple of sappy Valentines cards, let's fight fire with fire...) This time, the theme will be “haiku”. Please write a haiku poem -- earnest or comical -- expressing your experience, feelings, or advice about living in a sexless marriage. Quick refresher: Haiku form is traditionally considered three lines (that don’t need to rhyme); with a pattern of 5 syllables on the first line, 7 on the second, 5 on the third. Bonus points if you work in a reference to a season or something else in nature, as is customary in Japanese Haiku. I’ll get us started: see the first two examples, below. (The second one gets the "nature bonus".) (Recommended formatting: Font Size 4; italics; centered. Accessible via the web version of the site; not sure if available on other readers such as Tapatalk.) UPDATE: I’ve decided to make this Haiku thread and actual ILIASM contest! The winner will be given the accolade “ILIASM Poet Laureate” for 2018!
To be a contestant, simply write a Haiku and post it on the contest thread soon. Multiple entries are allowed. To vote, simply “like” any poem that meets your standards. Multiple votes are allowed. Voters are encouraged to consider the depth of evoking our community’s ethos, literary merit, and conformance to the prescribed form (haiku). Have fun! The fine print:- Voting will close and the end of the day on Valentines Day. (Since we have members in just about all time zones, that will mean early morning of Feb 15, Eastern US time.)
- Thread will be sticky during the period the contest is open for new votes.
- The thread may be locked or moved for a period on the 15th to prevent voting while the votes are tallied by one or more moderators, after which the winner will be announced, and the thread will be unlocked to allow additional post-contest participation.
- Ties will be decided in favor of the earlier post gleaning the same number of likes.
- Voting for one’s own post is considered bad form; a self-vote will be subtracted, but this will only be checked if the top vote-getters are within one vote.
- Admin's decision will be final!
Note: as the thread initiator, while I would be flattered by your votes, I recuse myself from competition for the accolade! FYI, previous poetry threads: Cracked Nursery Rhymes: iliasm.org/thread/1564/cracked-nursery-rymesDisparage your Marriage: Couplets for the Sexless Couple (on EP.com): www.experienceproject.com/stories/Live-In-A-Sexless-Marriage/7656014Not necessarily Haiku but it gets the point across.... I long for her touch, wishing for that intimate night And yet again, no happy ending, that’s right, another fight In my head I’m like “Yeah, go ahead, keep talkin’ that smack” I have an idea, I pull the covers and begin to whack Soon the pressure builds, and I’m stroking like a maniac And then as she sleeps quietly, I splooge on her back
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Post by doneanddone on Feb 7, 2018 13:43:42 GMT -5
I'm going to give you some insight into Peter's world: Get rid of that sense of entitlement. The fact that I'm the one making the money - doesn't mean I am entitled to sex. The fact that I am the one doing the cooking - doesn't mean I am entitled to sex. If I do the vacuuming, the laundry, repair whatever is broken - doesn't mean I am entitled to sex. If the crumbs on the chopping board bother me - I man up and clean it. If the cat pukes outside the door - I man up and clean it. If there's a pile of dirty dishes in the kitchen that bothers me or prevents me from cooking - I wash it. If something is broken, I fix it. I am not doing any of these things to earn entitlement points, I do them because they need doing and I am an adult, with some aspirations of being a responsible, capable adult. Grow up already. (applies to me too: I have a passive aggressive mother in my past; something I have to remind myself to get over from time to time). It's life: shit happens, deal with it, don't wait around for the clean-up fairy to show up. You'll just get disappointed and pissed off. Actually, my flatmate is much the same as me: if she sees something that needs doing, she does it. Both of us have blind spots, naturally. It's not a tit for tat. It's not a business transaction. Anyone who flaunts sex for vacuuming is a fake. And they will not deliver. Yes, I entered into this relationship hoping for intimacy, love, passion - and expecting sex. Wanting to share mine. So she's gone off sex, she has problems with intimacy and passion. She still loves me. She tries her best by me, and her best is the best I can hope for. This is another person we are talking about, with feelings, aspirations, a world-view of her own. She is not here to live up to my expectations. Now, if she were to still be abusive, if she were leeching only, lying, cheating .... then I'd be out of here. If I wasn't getting any of my needs and wants met, nada, nix, I'd be out of here. As it is I am living with a flawed person with a 'broken wing' who loves me and does her best to be a responsible adult. She genuinely cares for me. I guess I have that over some of my fellow iliasmers. Just: explain 'green' to a blind from birth person. But - I am not entitled to anything, I just have my sense of self worth and self respect and survival, and I do what I do for myself, and because I want to. If you have a spouse who doesn't want to carry their weight, then don't sit on your entitlement, but figure out how you want your future to be, and what your real future is going to look like, and then make a decision about it. For yourself. Because you can't change them, as we all know. I've posted this countless times: google the "Gestalt Prayer by Fritz Perls". I agree with you. I never said I was entitled to sex or was even hinting that I wasn't "manning up" and doing what needs to be done. I merely stated that I wanted to see what would happen if I left something obvious for her to see and do something about it.....i.e sweep the stairs or clean up cat puke..... Rest assured, I did sweep the stairs and I do clean up the cat puke..... I'm not entitled to shit in my own house or at least I've allowed myself to be put into a position of lesser importance. But I do agree with you. The passive aggressiveness is being addressed as well as possible depression.
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Post by doneanddone on Feb 5, 2018 13:24:53 GMT -5
Uh the fly infestations happened WITH a maid coming every two weeks. I will never understand the stay at home moms with maids. In my 14 years at home raising kids full time, never once did I have a house cleaner, window washer, meal, grocery, or laundry service. That’s what I stayed home for - all that plus kids. It was my full time job. I confess, I don’t have much respect for the women who hire all of that done AND stay home. But it could be I’m just jealous! For the men on here who are paying for those services and have stay at home wives AND are not getting sex?? That’s a serious entitlement complex you’re living with. I’m very sorry for any of you fellas in that boat. The W has actually asked me if I would pay for a cleaning service and my response was not only no but Hell to the No.....she works three days a week with 2 days off and she's asking for a maid......Not happening....
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Post by doneanddone on Feb 2, 2018 9:42:59 GMT -5
Post your best Friday It's The Weekend Pics and Videos and let's get the weekend started off on the right foot!
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Post by doneanddone on Feb 1, 2018 19:56:44 GMT -5
Out of all the 996 members here, there would have to be an instance (or instances) where the only issue is the sex Brother doneanddone . There'd have to be. Members narratives tell their own unique story. Many start their narrative at "everything is great bar the sex" (the most recent example - our newest member xander - who opens up with "everything is great bar the sex" then as it unfolds there is his missus' suspected addiction to cannibis, and suspected depression....so far) Or take the OP here on this very thread, Brother sdiamond1026 . There is a lot more going on there than just the sex. And the same thing you see in story after story. But would there be cases where it truly is "just the sex" ? Sure, there'd have to be. don't get me wrong....i may come off a bit DB..ish but my purpose and reasons for even signing up and being part of this community is to find support, advice, and to be able to share my story and circumstances without judgment of obviously allowing my circumstances to lead me here. Everyone who comments on the threads I start has a unique perspective and gives me something to think about when I read them....Thomas Edison found over 1000 ways NOT to invent the light bulb and 1 way to do it successfully.... I'm at 999 with two to go! I appreciate everything you provide...its humbling and useful. Thanks brother!!!! I mean that with all sincerity.....
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Post by doneanddone on Feb 1, 2018 16:15:29 GMT -5
"I have a difficult time believing someone who lives on their phone through social media, gossips with friends and about friends, watches reality TV on Bravo and Lifetime (I call that how to be a ho TV), drinks socially but more frequent, smokes cigs at a rate of almost a pack and half a day......I have a hard time thinking this person has clinical depression or is even depressed with their life vs. just being straight up lazy...." That was EXACTLY what my depression looked like. Serious, clinical, diagnosed depression. Thanks for sharing.....I appreciate that.
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Post by doneanddone on Feb 1, 2018 11:06:38 GMT -5
“If it's clinical depression she probably wouldn't have any interest in anything at all. “ Not true. Please don’t try to diagnose her. Encourage him to get her to a doctor or therapist. As part of it, she needs a thorough medical work up because some diseases can lead to lack of energy. Addictions also can including prescription drug addiction. Appreciate the support....attempting to get her in to see or talk with someone other than me is probably where I'll start.
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Post by doneanddone on Feb 1, 2018 11:04:28 GMT -5
If it's clinical depression she probably wouldn't have any interest in anything at all. I went through it once, and when you're there you know you used to be happy but can't grasp what that would feel like. I couldn't help how I was feeling and it was scary, I got help immediately with support from my SO and family. On this side I can't imagine possibly feeling that way anymore, but I remember that doing anything seemed impossible. That theme of not having interest in anything......couldn't get out of bed.......didn't feel anything for anyone.........so on so forth That's not where my W is at. She acts more like she is distracted with other things rather than being in the present and wanting to work on our issues together. Maybe she has stalled out in trying and just doesn't GAF anymore. But clinical depression, I can't see that being her issue. I've been around people who have had clinical depression or are going through clinical depression.....and I know no two people can exhibit the same signs and symptoms of the same condition but it just doesn't fit in my mind. It could and I would be shocked.....
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Post by doneanddone on Feb 1, 2018 11:00:26 GMT -5
doneandone Your thread has taken on quite the life here. With several themes considered - (messy house, depression, just lazy and indifferent, and how much you have enabled). I am confident you know many of us here are stuck in a quandary as to the action we really should take. We know logically. But we are here because there are so many moving parts in these emotionally charged cases and there appears to be just no way out. So many of us endure but have learned how to cope better and to adjust within our circumstances as a result of advice offered - advice based on experience and sometimes we get treated with sheer genius. To that, you are consistent but that's because your circumstance is consistent. My wife has been OCD for many years. She knows I abhor the sound of a vacuum cleaner running while I am home. She vacuums for "therapy" she says. I installed a central vacuum - quiet now. BUT she had made home life less than enjoyable for 2 decades as though life were all about, clean hands, clothes, vacuumed floors (not necessarily clean), dishes, folding clothes, etc. But she is so inefficient at these things, they became her whole life. To make this post useful, in 2014 I told her we all done with her meanness over not keeping a perfect house. That toys out of place were not a sign of disrespect just kids being kids and let's let the home be a more tranquil, enjoyable place. She capitulated. NOW however, she does let things go but not to your extent by any means. But I have taken over the role of co-managing this domestic stuff to a degree and I have become the enforcer but in my more mild and encouraging way where it is a team effort. In summary and where this may help you with your scene, I do not leave ANYTHING just to her anymore for her to fail at and then make me angry. Yes she is listless too often but admits she does not even know where to start often times with organizing, etc. She just has limited functionality that way. Even when she does, it takes her WAY too long and she lets everything else go as she cannot multi-task. I know she crosses through depression, indifference, confusion, etc. but I stopped being the pleaser for peace and I just do what needs done as though it is my house and even if she is that leach roomie sometimes. So do consider shocking her with taking charge of all of it, making things as YOU want them to be with your mind shift being "she is a relative" leaching off of you but you have to grin and bear it for a time. Pay for a cleaner to assist and put things together. Do some painting, etc. but make your house YOUR home. With that done, you have removed one of the themes in your S***hole. My advice - make it a mission - 2 weeks, Garage included. You may see her engage actually and take an interest in home-life again. You may not but you'll like the improvement. In your your case, this social media crap and going out, I know I could not tolerate AND be sexless. That is disrespect at one of it's highest levels. Her affairs are with all these distractions. But consider that these distractions also keep her from facing reality of home. She does not even know how to start as the task seems too big. But again, do not try to fix her all at one time. Fix the house first as that is the one thing in your total control. Be drastic. Again, she may begin showing an interest by something as subtle as telling you a paint color she likes when she sees you heading out to buy paint. Appreciate the comments..... Calming to read and comprehend. Thoughtful and with full experience as referenced. Thanks. This place, these forums....they are like therapy for me and venting, lashing out if people want to call it that, does help. I'd hate to think what could be if I didn't express myself in the way I do online is a place of anonymity.
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Post by doneanddone on Feb 1, 2018 8:14:22 GMT -5
Marriages in this group are self described as basically dysfunctional situations that have been dysfunctional for quite a while with one of the spouses sufficiently pissed off about it to seek - and join - this group. Totally unsurprisingly, as a side bar, there is no sex, or minimal sex or unsatisfactory sex. And, given the dysfunctional nature of the marriages presented here, the fact that there is a paucity of sex ought come as no big surprise to anyone. In fact, if you think about it, a dysfunctional marriage is not an environment conducive to a robust sex life. Quite the reverse applies. If you join here, it is a given that your sex life sucks. It is also the biggest symptom of the underlying dysfunctionality there is. So, count your annual roots if you like, and chase that magical "11 roots per annum" which suppossedly propels you out of the danger area of "0 to 10 roots per annum". It will not make one bit of difference to the underlying dysfunctionality of your deal. Most of the marriages here actually have fuck all to do with sex. Most of the marriages here attest to a basic incompatability between the spouses, and unsurprisingly, incompatable people don't fuck each other. Sex is the symptom, not the cause. Why can't it just be about sex.....? Is that to simple? Can there not be just the one problem - sex - or are we all supposed to buy into this mythical belief that sex is just a the tip of the iceberg for bigger problems? Someones dysfunctional lifestyle or situations just may very well be that persons norm. Your interpretation and perception of dysfunctional is different than someone else. We may all be comparing apples to apples or oranges to oranges but no two apples or no two oranges are identical in shape, size, color, or taste....
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Post by doneanddone on Feb 1, 2018 7:04:39 GMT -5
There seems to be a repeating theme in your threads Brother doneanddone . In April 2017 you unload on your missus for being lazy and say you are done with it. Same thing in May 2017. Then again a few more times in June 2017 - but this time you are truly done with it. June 2017 also chronicles you exploring the cheating option and noting that the vasectomy strategy hadn't had the desired result. January 2018 sees you unload on her again today, back on the 'lazy' theme of April 2017. Your missus might conclude from all this that whereas you might get pissy at her at pretty regular intervals that there is no credible threat to her continuing to do (or not do) whatever she likes. And on the balance of evidence, she's right. There's been no consequences for her choices at all (apart from you getting a bit pissy about it) You have shred your cred. So whatever you choose to do now - even some of the excellent suggestions the members have offered up in this thread - you start behind the 8 ball. Based on what she has observed, she's unlikely to take you seriously. I'm a grown man with grown man problems. Saying that I have shred my cred IMO is incorrect. I'll hand it to you, going back to do your homework.....that's a classic sign of someone who takes what they do serious enough to either #1 make an impact or #2 achieve credibility among their peers. I'm going to error on the side of caution and go with #1. If nothing else you've just proven my consistency in repeating myself which by all accords is a flaw I am not unwilling to accept, I know this about myself. I've never tried to hide it....fixing it, that's a different story aside from the SM issues....OR THE DIRTY HOUSE northstarmom... Just as if the W was or is clinically depressed, you can't make someone go get help unless they want to help themselves so pointing our my flaws is great for me.... What else is wrong with me? "Based on what she has observed, she's unlikely to take you seriously." We may never know...
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Post by doneanddone on Feb 1, 2018 6:54:26 GMT -5
"We have a cat that is older than dirt that hacks up fur balls and pukes all over the place, in closets, under beds, in the kitchen.....she leaves it there.....walks right past it to go out to the screen deck to smoke her cigs every morning. The fucking liter box is the bane of my existence......I love animals but want this one to go away. She'll wash dishes and leave them in the sink for weeks on end and if the dish washer is full, she leaves them for weeks as well. She takes the trash bag out of the trash can and walks 3 feet, opens the back door and puts trash bags on the deck." I don't understand why the OP insists on living like this. Seems he is very passive aggressive and doesn't mind that his kids are living amid such disorder and filth. It seems obvious that his wife has some kind of problem, and that problem likely is either extreme passive aggressiveness like his or she is seriously depressed. BTDT had a very messy house. I don't buy his excuse tht because he's working he can't do much to clean up. There are plenty of people -- typically women -- who work more than full time, raise kids by themselves and also manage to keep a clean house. Where there's a will, there's a way. But it seems he is trying to make a point by allowing his family to drown in filth until his wife -- whom he considers referring to as a POS -- wakes up. Very dysfunctional situation. I'd be interested in hearing his wife's viewpoint. Given the major problem with cleanliness at home, it's surprising to me that lack of sex is at the top of his list of problems with his marriage and home. Hold up....all the sudden I'm the basket case here...... I thought this was place for me to be open and honest without judgment but the last few comments and reply's have me the one that needs to lie on the couch and be questioned by a head doctor. Chew on this one.... Your perception is 100% your reality just as my perception is 100% my reality
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Post by doneanddone on Jan 31, 2018 15:17:35 GMT -5
Hmmm.....I'm now in deep thought (with Jack Handey....lol...old SNL skits for those who are not of age to remember) I'm not going to rule out co-dependency immediately without giving myself some solid indicators and factors to start monitoring and watching for changes and responses. To come out of left field with some half witted hair brained cock a maim-me idea that she is depressed or needs to go see a therapist, counselor, psychiatrist....whatever it may be without some examples or specific instances to site for reference would go very very badly.... Your response had me a little confused. I meant to say that YOU are co-dependent on her . Pleasing her, living up to her rules and standards, remaining under her control. And that setting and enforcing boundaries is a step towards no longer being co-dependent. Boundaries like no longer picking up her shit but cleaning up only your own mess and and pilling her mess on her side of the bed, or on her car or wherever. Like having to discipline a child who disrespects simple, accessible boundaries. WARNING: Get ready "Hell is coming to breakfast". Here is another deeper thought for you (more of my own experience) having your house such a mess means you will never be inviting friends or family over. How does that benefit her? It keeps you under her control. No friends, no outside life, no other relationships. While she continues to bury her own fears dating back to child hood, and she will take them to her grave. You my friend do not have to continue to be a part of that and feel 100% responible for it, but I'm getting way ahead and playing to much into it. HOLY SHIT!!!!!!! Are you reading my mind...... I've gone that route in the past with the clothes on her side of the bed, the dishes she used left in the sink, the towels she used in the bathroom on the floor.....nothing but bad results i.e. arguments, dirty looks, bad attitude like she didn't like that I actually called her shit on some stuff she knew was bogus.... The part about family not coming over, friends, outside life....man that hits home.... She HATES MY PARENTS....she'll claim she doesn't but her actions and attitude toward them tell a different story. Damn....I hate this place...but love this place all at the same time... (iliasm.org)
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Post by doneanddone on Jan 31, 2018 14:48:27 GMT -5
True, you can't force anyone to get psychiatric help (except for three days if they're a threat to their own or someone else's safety, I think you can have them committed but and that's different) but you can call their attention to a situation in a caring way and suggest that they may be depressed, which they themselves may not have considered. You can look up potential resources for counseling and psychiatric consults for them or call yourself. If that doesn't work, one might also seek out a counselor themself to brainstorm ideas about how to deal with this extreme sounding situation. One may point out all the ways they show signs of depression. One may have all the resources handy and a counselor on speed dial. One may even make the appointment FOR them. If they sit there and "feel attacked" - well, that was just a big step backwards. I One thing I've learned in my short 40 something years of being alive and living my life to the fullest....... I cannot make anyone feel anything........ first YOU have to receive my thoughts, my words, and my actions...... and then and only then will YOU will perceive and interpret my thoughts and words or actions..... it is at that moment YOUR feelings are expressed in return...... I do have a filter BTW (I am sympathetic and do have empathy....to a certain degree) so knowing how something is going to come across is a form of manipulation if you look at it from that perspective.....
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Post by doneanddone on Jan 31, 2018 14:30:13 GMT -5
That is an angle I had not thought about.....interesting.... Pardon my bold reach... (speaking from my own experience) You can attribute this to a lack of boundaries, and a problem with you being co-dependent. (happy wife, happy life syndrome) If this is the case, co-dependancy is fixable. Manipulative controlling is not. Hmmm.....I'm now in deep thought (with Jack Handey....lol...old SNL skits for those who are not of age to remember) I'm not going to rule out co-dependency immediately without giving myself some solid indicators and factors to start monitoring and watching for changes and responses. To come out of left field with some half witted hair brained cock a maim-me idea that she is depressed or needs to go see a therapist, counselor, psychiatrist....whatever it may be without some examples or specific instances to site for reference would go very very badly....
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