|
Post by doneanddone on Jun 9, 2017 14:34:34 GMT -5
Have you talked to a lawyer to find out how a divorce would shake out? ...I divorced when I realized I'd rather be alone living in a rented room than to remain lonely in my dream house. My living arranges didn't change that drastically but if they had, I'd still believe I'd made the right decision. I'm hoping for an open marriage, but I'd settle for a swinging arangement. My expectation of swinging is we can find a couple with a LL husband and a HL wife. My wife and the husband can sit around and play on their electronics and complain while the other wife and I rock the house. What if that were the case and your LL wife and LL husband of the other couple decided or found a fix for their LL? Would you be good with another man sexing it up with your wife when she wouldn't sex it up with you? I'd be perfectly content with that if it were my situation. That's my honest answer and I'm sticking to it.
|
|
|
Post by doneanddone on Jun 9, 2017 14:28:14 GMT -5
Have you talked to a lawyer to find out how a divorce would shake out? In truth, divorce is a loss for both spouses. I am living with less money and savings. I have a more modest lifestyle. I prefer the life I'm living now to being in my arid prison of a marriage. I divorced when I realized I'd rather be alone living in a rented room than to remain lonely in my dream house. My living arranges didn't change that drastically but if they had, I'd still believe I'd made the right decision. I will have to disagree with you on this point. I am divorced and the rend results neither my ex nor I suffered any loss. As the matter of fact we both gained about 3k each. It was probably the most well documented uncontested divorce in the history of divorces. We both decided that it was best for both to our own ways, we split house hold appliances. She got washer/dryer, I got the frig. I took all the yard equip, she took all the bedroom furniture. I took the electronics and dinning table, she took the living room and all the kitchen stuff...... We agreed to sell the house and the profit split 50/50. Made 6k on the sale of the house and spit the profit, done. Walked away without a scratch and started over. We didn't have kids, she didn't want any of my retirement and I didn't want any of her "daddy's" money so that's how my divorce went down.
|
|
|
Post by doneanddone on Jun 9, 2017 14:08:31 GMT -5
So what is "AM"? I am at the point of calling time of death as well....BUT.... I have a pre-plan in place that is a show stopper. My wife and I have discussed in grave detail all the options, all the issues, all the reasons for her not wanting to have sex or the lack of her wanting sex. She can call it what she wants....LL, mental, physical, self esteem, self conscious, I'll even give her the medical reason if she wants but she is not inclined to go to a doctor even for a simple routine checkup so I'm at the end of mine and her rope. SO, my pre-plan as I call it, and the discussion for this has also been had between my wife and I.....next week I go to the doctors and I get a vasectomy. We both agree we do not want any more children AND her #1 every time all time reason for shying away from sex is the old getting pregnant again card. Well after next week and a few weeks after that once I am given the green light to have sex without a condom, ensuring there will be no accidents, we will see just how much of a fear that is for her. I have a very sneaky suspicion that this isn't going to change anything for us. Having to wait a few extra weeks is nothing since I am already not getting any so nothing I can't handle. I'm actually looking forward to this. We've had the conversation of more kids and we both are good with where we are with ours now and don't want anymore. This will be a true test of honesty for her even though I never have questioned her about it, I've just accepted things as they are but now I am ready for a change and this may be the most radical change to be making but it is a step moving forward for me and that is a positive instead of just living day in and day out of my SM without any movement. AM is Ashley Madison it's a cheating site for married people. I knew a man whose wife played the no sex - fear of pregnancy card. He got a vasectomy, it changed nothing. They are now divorced. Ok... I've heard of that site. They got hacked a few years back and people went crazy over the names that were released to the public. I too have heard that exact same situation. I never thought I would be in there shoes but yet here I am. Like I said I'm good with no more kids. I'm selfish and don't want to share the one I do have with any siblings so call me crazy but this is just my way of doing something instead of nothing which is what I have been doing for the past 6 years. Besides if things don't change I'll be good to go with outsourcing with no fear of an accident happening....lol.... OK that sounded bad but kinda funny....true but a little funny. And if things were to not work out and divorce was the end result, any relationship I would be upfront about it and me not wanting kids or being able to produce could be a deal breaker and I can live with that. I just can't keep living the way I am now.
|
|
|
Post by doneanddone on Jun 9, 2017 13:58:26 GMT -5
The difference here is I actually mean it. It may be anger but with anger comes truth. Just because it wasn't politely discussed in a calm submissive setting with acknowledgment of the others comments and the typical "what I hear you saying is...." dialog doesn't discredit my emotional state of mind which is tied to my feelings and if we are supposed to be honest with our feelings in dealing with a SM then yes, my anger is truthful in the sense of I mean it. No one is disputing your anger. I'm just observing that the note seems to end there. It's often hard to know what one means. Sometimes the best way to judge intent is to look at the results of the action. If your intent is to engage your wife in dialogue, then you will engage in dialogue and there it will end. The dialogue is a proxy for attention. A note like that says to me, "I'm angry and I'm done trying to win your attention. It's your responsibility now to invest in this marriage." In short, it appears as an expression of anger and an invitation for dialogue, or for her to do something different - which is essentially the same goal you've been shooting for. If your intent is to change your situation irrespective of your wife's involvement - then your next discussion with her would likely skip past the expression of rage and justification - and move to execution. That's because if you are done, what your wife thinks about that doesn't really matter. That's what being done with marriage to her is. It's about what you have decided to do, specifically, and when and how you will do it. No, you are spot on. I am at the point of no longer investing and it is her time to show what her investment will be. Other than dialog and or the act itself with the intent of continuing with dialog and having sex I am at the point of executing the next steps. I actually already have next steps in place. My SM was never about whether or not my wife loved me or was unhappy with me or my performance. She made the decision to not have sex......for the both of us without discussion first. That stands out as a big red flag. What else is she going to make decisions on without me? Which leads me to think there is some or a little dishonesty in her reasons for not wanting to have sex. Her #1 reason over and over again is she doesn't want to get pregnant again. "Condoms are not 100%" she says so that's even off the table. My "next steps in place" are getting a vasectomy. We've discussed it. We agreed to it. She is fully aware of my reasoning for getting it.....so we can have sex.....AND to cross off her #1 reason. I'm happy with that decision. I'm good with not being able to produce any children moving forward. I'm completely and utterly in love the one child I have now and am selfish and don't want another kid to have to split time with. That's just me not everyone may feel that way. SO, am I a little coo coo for getting a vasectomy, no, not in my mind. It kills two birds with one stone.....IF that's a big IF......IF the wife is completely honest about her #1 reason of not wanting to get pregnant she won't have to worry about that in a few weeks and then we shall see how much investment she has in this marriage. I've pushed my pill of chips all in with 10, J, Q, K of Spades and the A of Spades just hit the rive. Let's see if she checks, folds or calls.
|
|
|
Post by doneanddone on Jun 9, 2017 13:41:41 GMT -5
I outsourced. I was faithful for 21 years and Feb. 2014 I called time of death on my marriage and became a counter refuser, not that I was going to be given the opportunity to exercise that right. I went on AM to find a man to have sex with. We did sex was great! He was in a SM too. I have no regrets about outsourcing because it clarified a lot of doubts I had about myself. During that first encounter, after round 2, I asked him a lot of questions wondering if something was wrong with me. Am I not tight after 2 kids?, do I not give a good blow job? Etc. I realized that nothing was wrong with me and how amazing good sex is. I never had sex like that with my H. I was very happy that I took that risk. I know with the risk came consequences if I were caught and I was prepared to face the consequences. I never got caught. For me with outsourcing the reward outweighed the risk. I also believe that if I did not do that I might still be in my marriage, with no confidence and depressed. It opened my eyes to what sex between two people should be like. This was with a man that's not my H but there was more intimacy than my own H so that was a comparison. I met my AP June of 2014, he is now my FWB. He is happily married and he knows I am dating and we help each other when we can. So in summary outsourcing was a positive experience for me because I was ok if the marriage blew up in my face. I was prepared to accept the consequences. It also motivated me to divorce so I didn't have to sneak around. So what is "AM"? I am at the point of calling time of death as well....BUT.... I have a pre-plan in place that is a show stopper. My wife and I have discussed in grave detail all the options, all the issues, all the reasons for her not wanting to have sex or the lack of her wanting sex. She can call it what she wants....LL, mental, physical, self esteem, self conscious, I'll even give her the medical reason if she wants but she is not inclined to go to a doctor even for a simple routine checkup so I'm at the end of mine and her rope. SO, my pre-plan as I call it, and the discussion for this has also been had between my wife and I.....next week I go to the doctors and I get a vasectomy. We both agree we do not want any more children AND her #1 every time all time reason for shying away from sex is the old getting pregnant again card. Well after next week and a few weeks after that once I am given the green light to have sex without a condom, ensuring there will be no accidents, we will see just how much of a fear that is for her. I have a very sneaky suspicion that this isn't going to change anything for us. Having to wait a few extra weeks is nothing since I am already not getting any so nothing I can't handle. I'm actually looking forward to this. We've had the conversation of more kids and we both are good with where we are with ours now and don't want anymore. This will be a true test of honesty for her even though I never have questioned her about it, I've just accepted things as they are but now I am ready for a change and this may be the most radical change to be making but it is a step moving forward for me and that is a positive instead of just living day in and day out of my SM without any movement.
|
|
|
Post by doneanddone on Jun 9, 2017 12:38:34 GMT -5
Like Brother @apochrypha says, "When the proclamation is tied to anger, it dies as anger dissipates". And, in your spouses mind, leaves you looking like a dick who doesn't mean what he says. And that throws you backwards by months. If there is one *golden rule* in trying to sort out an ILIASM shithole, it is this - DO NOT SAY THINGS YOU DO NOT MEAN All you do is shred your cred. The difference here is I actually mean it. It may be anger but with anger comes truth. Just because it wasn't politely discussed in a calm submissive setting with acknowledgment of the others comments and the typical "what I hear you saying is...." dialog doesn't discredit my emotional state of mind which is tied to my feelings and if we are supposed to be honest with our feelings in dealing with a SM then yes, my anger is truthful in the sense of I mean it.
|
|
|
Post by doneanddone on Jun 8, 2017 14:45:17 GMT -5
Going back to this post a few weeks back I really am starting to wonder if my wife was raised in a cult like environment. She is from Florida, the land of oranges and Mickey Mouse. Her mother and father raised her with a chastity belt until she hit college which is when I didn't know her but found out later in our relationship that she liked to do drugs and anal sex bare back. I got to watch the vhs tape of her and her previous boyfriend from college.....long story....I think it's in my first post somewhere on here. She has this real freakish relationship with her mother and father where they treat her like she is still there little teenage girl who is supposed to mind her manners and act like the perfect daughter they never saw grow up. And the shitty part is she does that. She acts like a child around her parents. She whines like a teenager would if you told them to go to their room. She snaps back with an attitude like a child who doesn't know any better. And when she does all this around them they fall right in line and act as if they were the parents of the late 80's early 90's (yes, i am older). My in-laws are part of the problem my wife is so fucked in the head which is also probably part of the reason why she isn't fucking me.
Anyways. Fast forward about 15-16 years. We've been married for 10 and have one child. Last 4 or 5...well shit I might as well call it....since our daughter was born 6 years ago....maybe maybe 5 meaningful sexual encounters with my wife. She's never given me a blow job, she won't even hint at foreplay and I honestly cannot remember the last time I saw her full body naked and unclothed. She claims she is uncomfortable with her body but yet she isn't uncomfortable enough to shut the fucking bathroom door when she goes. I don't know about other men but I cannot stand to hear a women pee. Sorry ladies. I don't mean to offend any women out here. I promise you I don't. I hear myself pee, I've heard myself pee my entire life. I don't want to hear ANYONE else pee let alone my wife. It's just a quirk I have. The sound of pee is not at all alluring or attractive. So yeah, I think my wife may have been raised in a cult or cult like environment.
|
|
|
Post by doneanddone on Jun 8, 2017 14:09:41 GMT -5
I have the same situation. My wife is a wonderful person--everything is actually so good except in this one area and its a big one for me. We have built quite a life together but now we have this brick wall regarding sex. In her case it is more medical than psychological. I go back an forth about throwing away a marriage and its impact on kids, etc. after so many good years. Yet, I miss sex and the intimacy it brought. I am sad, lonely, and feel there is no solution. Question When was it discovered that it was more medical than psychological? And how long had it been since the last time you did have sex with her until it was determined medical over psychological? The reason I ask is that women do change with age, not to say that is bad or the cause of your situation but I am wondering if this could have been a backup default if no other reason for the stoppage of sex worked out. I've often wondered if my wife is having some kind of medical issue and she just isn't ready or willing to accept that about herself. But at the same time I would think and hope that if it were truly a medical issue that she on her own recourse would want to get that checked out and looked into for maybe there could be something more significant underlying the issue that is causing the lack of sex. I've asked her is she thinks its a medical issue and she says no. Matter of fact when it comes to doctors and hospitals, my wife is like a vampire to light. She hates them so it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it turned out to be something of the sort. I'd be able to handle the reason of my SM if it were medical so to hear someone else say that's the reason for their SM I'm not discrediting it but I always question if it is or was really medical to start off with and ended up being that as the refuser's "out" so to speak. For your situation I do hope that she is getting the medical treatment/advice that is helping or prevent any further issues. Good luck to you.
|
|
|
Post by doneanddone on Jun 8, 2017 13:58:42 GMT -5
For all of us married to a really good person, good spouse, good parent, but no interest in sex - what about talking to them about the following:
1. I love you. 2. You are a wonderful father / mother. 3. You are a great roommate, friend, etc. 4. I do want to grow old with you and be for each other. 5. I need to have sex on a regular basis. 6. Are you prepared to change and work toward giving me the sex I need? 7. If you are unable or unwilling to give me the sex that I need, do you have any suggestions as to how we can maintain our marriage and yet my sexual needs will be met?
1. I love you. Means nothing to the person refusing sex 2. You are a wonderful father / mother. Wife would say to me "Well it's about time someone appreciated me around here!" 3. You are a great roommate, friend, etc. That would lead to a knock down drag out fight if I ever called the wife a "roommate" 4. I do want to grow old with you and be for each other. What's your definition of old? 5. I need to have sex on a regular basis. Reason number 15 of 100 as to why wife won't have sex with me.....because I want it on a regular basis....her response "Isn't once every 4 years good enough!" 6. Are you prepared to change and work toward giving me the sex I need? Why should I have to change is her thoughts.....I know this because she's said it out loud to me during arguments. 7. If you are unable or unwilling to give me the sex that I need, do you have any suggestions as to how we can maintain our marriage and yet my sexual needs will be met? This one no person who is on the denied end of a SM is ever going to get an answer to. Your needs will never come first or even be considered by someone who is a refuser of sex and this will just be a merry-go-round argument..... I hate to bust your bubble on this one but just because my wife is a good mother doesn't me I owe her an explanation as to why she is a shitty wife for cutting the sex off without discussing with me her husband. Nor do I give a shit what her reasons are. She cut me off at the knees basically leaving me helpless and amputated. There is no negotiation, no trade off. There is nothing any of us can do when the sex card is played on the hand dealt. You don't do that to people you love and care about. You don't take away something that was a part of bringing your family together. Anyone who does that is a peace of shit in my opinion. That is the sucker punch of sucker punches. It's as bad as cheating in my book. I'm not going to say it's not fair because there is no justification is me using an argument of equality on the side of me refusing her of something she doesn't want to begin with so saying it isn't fair would be immature and pointless. My anger stems from the single fact that my thoughts and concerns about the topic of having sex or not having sex were never taken into consideration before it was shut down. This is my wife that did this to me. My quote unquote best friend in life. The mother of my child. The person I am dedicated to for life....... Whatever her reasons are they mean shit to me and I could care less what they are. Medical, psychological, mental, physical, emotional.....I DON'T CARE....... She took advantage of me without a whiff of concern for me or my feelings so there..... Damn that felt good to type out.....
|
|
|
Post by doneanddone on Jun 8, 2017 13:03:37 GMT -5
I'm right there with you. Hang in there I have to believe it gets better.....otherwise I'll be miserable with you.
|
|
|
Post by doneanddone on Jun 8, 2017 10:29:39 GMT -5
So last night in bed things appeared to be heating up but I just don't get how a wife could ignore her husband like my wife does me. Denied again, you claim you didn't know what was going on or that you were just so tired that you couldn't get into it. BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT......
I'm done, done, and done. I'm through. I'm the one that is tired. Tired of trying to be close, trying to be affectionate, trying to be intimate, trying to save our SM with any close personal physical contact between us and you just ignore it and say whatever the fuck you want to get by another day.
FUCK THAT AND FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by doneanddone on Jun 8, 2017 8:49:35 GMT -5
I probably cry about 3 times a week about the sexless relationship I'm in and even after confronting the elephant in the room and trying to make things work I'm here again feeling what we all feel on here I don't need to describe it, the question is, is my sexlife worth loosing an amazing father and a good friend, should I just separate the two and satisfy myself elsewhere , or just pack up and go while I'm still in my 30's with only 2 kids. I'm pretty much in the same position as you are other than my wife is the refuser. As a father of only one, a girl, I can 100% honestly say this as it pertains to my situation and mine alone because everyone's situations are different: As of today, living in my SM, I will be a father to my daughter first and a husband to my wife second. As shitty as that may sound to some, again, for my situation that is my outlook. I probably could level them both, being a father and husband equally but I do believe that without the intimacy and close connection that sex brings together a husband and wife, there is no way in hell my wife will equate to what it means to me being the father that I am for my daughter and being there for my her. So in short to answer your question, is sex more important than a good husband/father....? I see your question differently from a father's view point and while my wife is an awesome mother, she is a shitty wife for making a choice and major marriage changing decision for both of us by not having sex. I'd rather have my wife as my daughters awesome mother and have sex regardless if it is with my wife or someone else who is intimately connected with me. That is my truth for the day and I'm sticking to it. Yes, sex is more important than having a good wife/mother....... Do you for a change and don't let anyone else, especially the refuser weigh you down....
|
|
|
Post by doneanddone on May 11, 2017 11:44:17 GMT -5
The bed is the loneliest place in my life where it should be the happiest. If you don't have a sexual relationship with her and you feel lonely when you sleep, then sleeping elsewhere can at least help you get restful, restorative sleep. It was an enormous benefit to me, and helped me "defog" and get closer to the truth of my relationship with my spouse. thanks....that is actually something to consider seriously......
|
|
|
Post by doneanddone on May 11, 2017 9:32:49 GMT -5
Why don't you suggest leaving the little one in your bed and go up and bang in the little one's room (on the floor of course... Might be weird to do it in the little one's bed) I guarantee she is not expecting THAT angle... My though exactly... or the couch, couch is great for sex, or the kitchen table, counters, hell lean 'er over the porch railing. But I sadly can relate to the 'we have sex in our bed' scenario I'm down for where ever as long as there is enough privacy.....and even then if there isn't I could see myself getting frisky in a more public venue..... Not like a full on exhibitionist type but the possibility of getting caught in a strange place or hooking up in a public but not so obvious place is kind of thrilling and cool...
|
|
|
Post by doneanddone on May 11, 2017 9:30:04 GMT -5
shamwow - omg thats hilarious. I quit sleeping next to my husband 3 years ago. It was two painful. Falling asleep by myself with so much cold space. he's so close and yet so far away. Flinching from me even holding his hand. He was relieved when I got my own bed and sometimes gets grumpy because by morning me and my kids are a big bundle of cuddling lols. I even got myself a special pillow to help me sleep at night. and no, not in a perverted way either. Sorry you are going through it. Its tough. The fact of the matter is I am starting to see exactly how little energy she has. She is ALWAYS complaining about how much running around she has done all day and how tired she is all the time. My personal opinion is if she were to get off her ass and do something productive I probably.......maybe would feel different about her "running around all day" but day in day out all i see from her is sitting on the couch flipping through facebook or texting self centered girlfriends and more recently drinking half a bottle of wine or a 6 pack within a short time frame. So do I really buy her excuse of being tired from "running around all day". Hell to the naw! She doesn't do shit so why be tired but then again if you do shit like she does then you probably have zero energy and once your head hits a pillow either on the couch or bed it probably doesn't take long to fall asleep. But to your point about being close but yet so far away.....i can totally relate. The bed is the loneliest place in my life where it should be the happiest.
|
|