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Post by flyingsolo on Feb 11, 2021 16:36:31 GMT -5
Person C and I have discussed this in great detail and we concur on that fact. I have to leave my marriage because I know it isn't working. It can't have anything to do with Person C. I was already wrestling with leaving my marriage well before Person C came into the picture. It's only once I really reconnected with her that I really realized how much I was missing in my marriage and that I was settling when I could have so much more with someone who is willing to meet my needs and vice versa.
It's like a discussion I've seen in another thread in the forums where someone was talking about feeling unattractive, like they would never find someone else, etc. because their spouse was resisting intimacy and the marriage was sexless so they settled for their marriage because they thought it was the best they could do. You feel undesirable and it takes it's toll on your self confidence. When someone meets your needs, compliments you, and validates that you are a good looking and successful person that they find very attractive and indeed, want to be physically and emotionally intimate with you, it is amazingly empowering and you realize you have a lot to offer to someone. You become less willing to stay in a sexless marriage where none of your needs are being met and are more willing to move forward at putting yourself in a better situation.
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Post by flyingsolo on Feb 11, 2021 8:03:57 GMT -5
Excellent points shamwow. I agree that no one endeavors to get into a long-distance relationship over a local one where you can see the person every day. In my particular case, I dated this woman for three years when I was in college. She was my “first” and we’ve always agreed that we were both just starting our careers and finding out who we were and where we wanted to go in life and the timing just wasn’t right for an “us” to grow at that point. Her parents had just gone through a divorce and she was dealing with a lot of trauma. We parted on very good terms. We both went on to other relationships, got married to other people, had kids and lived our lives for 25 years, but now we find ourselves talking again, easily for 3-5 hours at a time on Zoom and we both agree we could talk longer. Yes we are 500 miles away, but we are both in agreement that if we did end up together after the end of my marriage, that we would both do whatever necessary to make sure we always communicate and make and effort to make the long distance relationship work. We are in agreement if we ever lose the desire to make that effort, then it wasn’t meant to be. We are in agreement that we’d need to see physically each other every few weeks but there could be times we go a month or so depending on our work and parenting schedules. Your relationship with BOC gives me hope that this could work if we both want it to.
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Post by flyingsolo on Feb 8, 2021 16:30:47 GMT -5
Again thanks for all the input. I've spoken to my attorney who strongly disagrees with any sort of emotional reconciliation letter before a divorce is final, which I guessed she would. So, I will hold off on that for now. I do still want to try to talk to my wife to see if we really have a consensus that the marriage is over. I've never been able to drag any info out of her other than "We aren't lovers" and that she blames me for everything but believes I blame her. Honestly, the blame goes both ways. As least with a consensus we can hopefully find some common ground to be cooperative for our kids if nothing else. A long, drawn out legal battle does no good for anyone. Honestly, I think I could settle things pretty easily in a few hours of mediation if it were up to me and would be willing to make sure she is taken care of for the next seven years to allow our youngest to get through high school and into college. After that she is going to need to find employment, but she does have a skill set that would let her support herself in the workforce.
With regard to my long-distance friend, I agree it is a completely separate issue and I can't let that be the reason that I leave nor can I leave with the expectation that she and I will end up together as I do need time to heal and process the grief from the demise of my marriage. Honestly, we have only gotten emotionally close over the last month or so. My marriage was broken long before that. We have not seen each other in person in 25 years though we have connected on Zoom a few times. With regard to apocrypha's comments, I agree to a certain extent regarding a long-distance relationship. However, I also know there are ways to make it work. We both have the ability to work remotely if necessary to spend more time together. But we also have kids, careers, etc. If was meant to be, it will find a way to work itself out. If it wasn't, then I will look at it as a special moment in time where a special someone from my past and I reconnected 25 years later. First I have to process my marriage and where I go from here.
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Post by flyingsolo on Feb 7, 2021 11:00:04 GMT -5
Just a quick update. I’ve tried four times now this past week to schedule a time for my wife and I to talk including three lunches. I work a few miles from home so lunch or coming to my private office would be easy for her to do. All four times she’s made an excuse of why she can’t. I told her point blank last night “You and I need to talk”. She of course responded “why, we never resolve anything and you blame me for everything.” and copped a pissy attitude. I find this rather ironic because the letter I wrote her and was planning to give her (but haven’t yet) clearly talks about my role in everything and how I am sorry for causing all the hurt I have and that she deserves someone better than me and that I need to move on because our marriage is not fixable. That doesn’t sound like me saying it is all her fault to me.
I was so angry after our interaction last night that I vowed to schedule a meeting with my attorney this week to update any necessary calculations and plans to move forward with a divorce filing, possibly as soon as this week. I guess there’s nothing left to talk about. I’ve now decided to let my attorney read my letter to my wife first to make sure there isn’t anything in it (admissions, statements, etc.) that will cause me problems in a divorce.
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Post by flyingsolo on Feb 6, 2021 6:27:02 GMT -5
First off, thank you to all of you for weighing in and providing your thoughts. You’ve all pretty much confirmed and validated my thoughts. I took some time yesterday and wrote my wife a heartfelt letter because trying to talk to her at all about our marriage always proves confrontational and non-productive. The letter acknowledges my role in the demise of our marriage, apologizes for it, and ultimately indicates that I am not happy in our marriage and don’t think she is either and suggests we talk about a peaceful divorce. I have lunch planned with her today. I am not sure today is the day I give her the letter but I would like to see if I can initiate some discussion to get an idea of where we stand in her eyes. I have to believe she isn’t happy either, but is she unhappy enough to entertain a divorce discussion. Ending our marriage together, cooperatively, would certainly be easier than only one of us wanting out. I have known people able to do it, but I fear she would attempt to be vindictive if it comes to that.
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Post by flyingsolo on Feb 5, 2021 15:51:46 GMT -5
Have not had intercorae in two years. Wife says sje is working towards making it happen. Not sure how I will react or respond if the day ever comes. I want it but not really sure since it has been so long. Sadly it doesn't get any better. It will be four years for me in February, despite four years of marital counseling. Do you have any trauma in your past causing the issue - an affair, being emotionally unavailable, medical issues, etc.? If not, you really need to evaluate what you are getting out or want to get out of your relationship if there is no passion or sex involved. Is this really what you want your life to be? Take it from someone who has been dealing with it way longer hoping to fix it, only to learn that it is highly likely we will end up divorced because I am now seeing that a lack of intimacy is a deal breaker for me. Consider asking your wife point blank why she believes the two of you are having intimacy issues. Will she answer you honestly? If not, I would suggest you consider counseling now while it is still early and potentially fixable. However, I will tell you the trend her on these forums leans strongly toward someone not being able to fix a sexless marriage and either agreeing that they are willing to give up that part of their lives in order to keep something else of value to them (family together, personal wealth, etc.) or people who have decided move on from their sexless marriage to pursue actually being happy.
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Post by flyingsolo on Feb 5, 2021 14:56:21 GMT -5
Hi gang:
I haven't been on the forums in a long time. I figured I would post an update as a lot of things have happened since the last time I logged on, and it's a lot so buckle up. So, to rehash, my wife and I have been in a marriage which is absolutely and completely sexless and has been for four years this February, and basically sexless for over ten. I've struggled with the decision to stay or go, particularly in the last two years, but I know I am not happy and I am not living my best life. I am walking around on eggshells not to upset hers. I have three kids and two businesses, which makes the decision harder as there would be significant ramifications to a divorce. I turn 50 this year, so I still feel somewhat young, but I'm no spring chicken anymore. I love my wife, but we are not emotionally connected (and haven't been in a long time). I can safely say I am not "in love" with my wife (she herself recently said "we aren't lovers"). I value her as my partner for the past 25 years, as the mother of my children, and as a person, but I don't see us fixing our sexless marriage issues and our intimacy issues as I believe it's just too much water under the bridge and too much time spent disconnected. She has a wall up around her emotions that is impregnable. She gets cold, defensive or angry and believes it all my fault whenever I even try to engage her in a discussion regarding the lack of intimacy in our marriage. Four years of marriage counseling hasn't really moved the needle or weakened the wall and I feel further disconnected from her than I did when we started. I have spent a lot of time thinking about what "being done" with my marriage would look like. I'd have to move out, we'd have to agree on alimony. Child support is formula driven. It would be expensive and set me back in my retirement plans, but I've done the math and I think I can do it. I've met with an attorney twice over the past two years to refine my calculations and all I'd have to do is pick up the phone and tell her to file the divorce paperwork and it would begin. I've visualized what living alone would look like, what seeing my kids every few days versus every day would look like, what coming home to an empty house would look like and feel like. I ask myself, "would you be OK with this?". I think I would be OK with it if it meant getting to be who or what I envisioned I would always be. It would take some getting used to, especially on holidays, but I think I could do it in order to begin to live my best life because I've definitely been sleepwalking through it for the past 10 years, if not longer. I don't want my kids growing up in a house where their parents are not affectionate to each other and sleep in separate rooms (which is exactly where we have been for two + years). That isn't a good illustration of what a healthy marriage looks like. Although we really don't fight (because we are solidly in the indifference phase of fixing our marriage), I think my kids can tell something isn't right and they've even commented when my wife and I do have some sort of disagreement "why don't you guys just get divorced".
In the meantime, I've begun seeing a counselor to work through my feelings about the marriage (whether it's fixable or not, etc.) and some other emotional issues I've had in the past with my dad, who I lost two years ago (more on that later). My wife's main argument is that I am "emotionally unavailable". I write this because it is important in a part of the story that is coming. I also acknowledge that I made a mistake 15 years ago when I had a brief affair when our marriage was looking like it was coming to an end which caused my wife considerable emotional harm. I have owned up to that mistake and accept responsibility for that error and we've had two kids since then so (wrongfully) I believed she had forgiven me. I have also acknowledged that I worked a lot in the past. I was growing a business and our deal was for her to be home for the kids (they are homeschooled) and for me to work. My business has thrived and been very successful, at the expense of time at home. I love my business and enjoy my career so a lot of times it doesn't feel like work but I know I need a better work-life balance and have adjusted some things (like opening a new office closer to home).
I've also begun seeing a personal trainer three times a week and the days that I don't see the trainer I do cardio on my own. I'm in decent shape, but would love to get my abs back and build some more strength and flexibility. It's only been a few weeks and I already feel better about myself. My goal is to be my best self, emotionally and physically and my sexless marriage and lack of connection with my wife is wearing me down. I've also made a bucket list of items I'd like to accomplish and things I'd like to do over the next five years. A lot of in involves traveling or experiences I want to have. This journey and the steps to being a better me have led me to see the current state of my marriage even more clearly, the state of indifference that we are in, and I've come to realize that we probably aren't going to fix it. The damage is too great. My wife seems to be willing to live in the state and focus on her faith and the kids, in her mind waiting on me to change. In my mind I've made great strides at changing and being a better person, but they go unnoticed. I've tried to direct some focus back to the marriage and I don't seem to get anywhere.
The new counselor I am seeing is also a marriage counselor. (it's one of the reasons I chose him). I asked my spouse if she would be willing to start seeing him with me to work on our marriage and she said "no, probably not". She stated that "I've had four years to make changes" and apparently she doesn't think I have.
Ok, so now that you have all of the background of where I am at, I want to add a wrinkle. I've reconnected with an old girlfriend (I dated her over 25 years ago) over the last three or four years. It started very casually and innocently. When my dad died, he and I were not close but were working on trying to fix that and it really bothered me that we never got the chance to fix it. I knew she was having problems in her relationship with her dad so I reached out to her to really encourage her to see if her relationship with her dad could be fixed before it was too late.
It all started as maybe a 30 minute phone call with her and then no communication for six months. This went on for a couple years, chatting every now and then about life and experiences just to check in with each other but nothing regular, nothing serious and we were distant friends if anything. As the years went on, we kept in touch and learned that we have a lot of life experiences in common over the past 25 years including silly stuff like having the exact same breed of dog, both having our gallbladders out, etc. As we talked further, she shared with me that she had gone through a divorce 9 years ago. I started to share some of the issues I was having with my marriage and she was really able to help me process the feelings and work through a lot of issues as she'd gone through many of them also. She's shared all the things that she's dealt with after he marriage dissolved, the challenges she's faced in becoming a happier, healthier person, etc. It is very enlightening to see and I am very proud for her of the woman she has become. She's been very supportive and up until about a month ago, the conversation has always been non-sexual and more emotional and catching up on each other's lives. She's asked me for advice on guys she's been dating and we've shared updates on our families, etc.
About a month ago things changed as we began talking about some of the issues she was having with a guy she was seeing (not knowing how to please a woman, being selfish in bed, etc.) It started off jokingly, but after awhile she really started valuing the input I was giving her about how to interact better with a guy she was seeing at the time. She asked it I wanted to have a Zoom call (we had either been talking on the phone or emailing up to this point). About two weeks ago we started talking over Zoom for virtual cocktails and we just clicked. Our first call lasted five hours. We both love seeing each other for the first time since 1995 (she lives 500 miles away FYI). There are times where we might talk for hours during the day and still not run out of things to say or ask about each other. I am 100% open, honest and emotionally available to her and I don't have anything to hide from her. I've shared my journey with her and she has been 100% supportive. She hasn't put any pressure on me to leave my marriage, only to do what I feel I need to do to be the best me. She's been open and honest with me as well and we both admit that it's been absolutely awesome to be able to share our thoughts and feelings and talk openly and honestly. I don't think I have ever (in 25 years) had this type of open, honest and heartfelt dialogue with my wife that I am able to have with her. I want this type of relationship and I really began to feel like I started wanting it with her (my friend).
Over the last week, her issues with the guy she was seeing has led us to talk more about sexuality, shared fantasies, desires, things we would do if we were together (hypothetically), etc. and realized that we are totally compatible in many ways (including sexually) and would be incredible together (we have a past, but we've also both learned so much about who we are and want to be over these decades). She knows I am in a sexless marriage and debating leaving after counseling has failed. We've talked about whether a long-distance relationship could work if my marriage ends and after I take some time to heal from it (we don't want to rush anything if it does end and I wouldn't want to) and we both agreed that we would be willing to make it work, for each other because we do want to be together. We've gone as far as discussing that she can't be the reason my marriage ends and I have to make that decision whether or not she will be there after it all ends. This feels like something special enough where she would be willing to wait, but it also isn't something where I would want to jump right back into another relationship. I also would never want my kids to have any belief that my marriage ended because of her because she's such a great person and I would want my kids to see that and only that. She did not cause all the past issues in my sexless marriage. The lack of an emotional connection and the failure of my wife and I to communicate did.
I realize at this point we've crossed into an emotional affair (which I have been trying hard to avoid) and I've talked at great lengths with her about it. I don't want to hurt her if by some chance my wife and I find a way to reconcile, but I also don't want to hurt my wife if I can avoid it. Since we dated all those years ago, we've never met face to face and other than virtually on Zoom, I haven't seen her in over 25 years. However, back when we were dating, I always felt like she was "the one" but we both agreed back then that our timing wasn't right and that perhaps we'd meet sometime again in the future if we were ever supposed to be together. Fate has intervened and we've somehow found each other again and the relationship has been electric. This relationship, which started innocently enough has turned into a brushfire very quickly, quicker than both of us thought it would because we have so much in common.
I know this all seems a little crazy. I'm still married although it is hanging by a thread and I'm not sure what I am still hanging onto. Over a decade in a sexless marriage has been hell and my wife and I have both said we are "done" multiple times. I see the items I put on my bucket list and know if I stay in my marriage, none of those will ever happen. A lot of them are places I want to go or do with a partner (catch a Red Socks game at Fenway, which means a trip to Boston and bar hopping for a long weekend, fly to California and spend a week driving up the PCH, stopping at beaches, and small romantic hotels along the way), going back to Europe, etc. My new (old) friend and I compared bucket lists and we have some of the same items on ours (including the Socks game and weekend in Boston). We didn't share the lists in advance so this was totally a spontaneous match. We seem very compatible. Actually I know we are and I know, even though she's 500 miles away (which is a short plane flight as we are both outside major cities), we could make it work and would be willing to do what it takes so that we don't lose each other again.
I know the correct answer is to stop all contact with her and resolve the marriage issues. If we divorce, I should wait to heal and then when I am ready go find her if she is still available. She has offered all of this (to stop the contact, to let me either fix or dissolve the marriage, to let me take time to heal). The problem is I don't want to stop talking to her because she is just such a fascinating person to talk to and I don't want to push her away because I'm afraid I am going to lose her again. However, she won't admit it, but on the off-chance I fix things with my wife, I know it would probably really hurt her which would really bother me.
I was planning on talking to my wife today (which has now been postponed until tomorrow), to have a in depth discussion at how broken I feel our marriage is and acknowledging that a lot of that is probably my fault. Honestly, she deserves someone that is going to make her happy and that she feels connected with. I don't think I'm that guy or we wouldn't be where we are today. We both deserve to be happy and I don't think we are happy in our marriage. I honestly don't feel that I want to fix my marriage anymore at this point.
I should add that my biggest concern is my kids. One is off to college this fall and will be out of the house, but I also have a 13 year old and an 11 year old. I can't see doing this 7 more years until they are both in college. I can't take it. Everyone I have talked to has told me it will take some adjustment if you divorce, but if you focus on co-parenting and making the kids feel loved and safe, they will turn out fine. I just worry that my wife will be vindictive and try to keep me from seeing them. Everyone I've talked to has also reassured me that I deserve to be happy. Life is too short to be unhappy in a marriage. So, that's my very long-winded summary. What the hell do I do? On one hand I lose my marriage, a lot of wealth, my house and only see my kids part-time, but potentially ultimately gain the passion filled "rest of my life" relationship I've always longed for and haven't had for 25 years. On the other, I stay in my unhappy sexless marriage on the hope that we can still find a way to fix it, but then I know I have to let my friend go and stop all contact, which would be so hard to do. I know I will always have "what if" regrets if I do that. Is this one of those moments in life where you just have to take a leap of faith and say "I need this for me" and file for divorce with the goal of starting on a new path of what my life is supposed to be (whether or not it is with my friend) or am I just being short-sighted and naive?
I would welcome your thoughts.
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Post by flyingsolo on Nov 12, 2020 21:18:17 GMT -5
If you are a Gottman fan, they have an email that they mail out every week or so that I've found helpful as it has a lot of good tips in it. It's always very short (usually a few paragraphs), but helpful. Here's the latest as an example:
Update your Love Maps
Building Love Maps is how you know your partner’s inner world, and just like literal road maps, they need updates as things change.
Your partner’s tastes, feelings, and preferences evolve over time. Whether it’s as simple as the way they take their coffee or as complex as desiring a career change, a Love Map rarely stays stagnant.
Take time today to check in with your partner. Before you presume any long-standing preference they have, ask. You can also talk to them about the changing feelings that you experience.
Keeping your Love Maps updated helps you stay attuned to your partner’s truest self and strengthens your relationship from the inside out.
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Post by flyingsolo on Nov 10, 2020 19:59:47 GMT -5
I got called a "bigger guy" the other day at the doctor's office when she was trying to tell me how much I should take in terms of pain meds. I got hurt in a soccer game. I am 5'10", about 198. Until about a month or two ago ago I was biking up to 16 miles a day, walking and playing soccer once a week. That's the first time in my life I've been called a "bigger guy". Now it makes me feel like I need to go lose about 25 pounds.
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Post by flyingsolo on Nov 10, 2020 19:52:49 GMT -5
So, I just popped in to see how things are going since I've been away for awhile. When last I checked in, my wife and I were trying counseling. It got to the point where counseling was not on a regular basis and we both admitted that we feel like we are further apart that when we started a few years ago. We've both agreed that we cannot continue on this path and neither of us wants to stay in this marriage as it currently sits if we can't find a way to be closer together. We both agree that we still love each other. She admitted as recently as today that she still wants an intimate relationship, including physical intimacy with me, but doesn't feel emotionally connected at this point. As such, physical affection is not on her radar (which still kind of puzzles me, but I guess if I understood women better, I wouldn't be in this situation). I've stayed to this point because of my kids, because I love my wife, and because it would be very expensive to leave. However, in staying, I have realized that while I've spent three and a half extra years with my kids and watched them grow every day, I am also sacrificing a normal, healthy love life and an emotional connection with a partner to share my life with, which weighs heavily on me. I'm a physical touch person and not having any physical affection in my marriage has been tough. It's literally been 3 1/2 years since I've had any kind of sex, which seems crazy to me to even have to type. In addition, my business has continued to grow to the point where I've spun off another business. The longer I stay in a broken marriage, the more expensive it gets for me and the more risk I take that I may owe my wife lifetime support. That is beginning to weigh heavily on me also as I don't want it impact future business decisions and I am starting to see my financial freedom slipping away if I don't leave soon. That being written, I've grown as a person in those 3 1/2 years and realize that the current sexless/emotionless marriage is not a sustainable long-term solution. While we co-parent very well, I will leave within the next year if we cannot rectify this situation and if my needs for affection are not met. I realize she has emotional needs and I am working really had to try to meet those, but it can be challenging based on all the damage we've both done to our relationship over the past 10 years. I am struggling to connect with her emotionally and, under her narrative, "I am not an emotional person". This is a bit frustrating for me as I have two female friends that I talk to fairly regularly, both of which have told me I am totally an emotionally available person. However, I certainly can't tell her that as I think it would cause more problems that it was worth. In the meantime, I've had another meeting with the attorney I last saw 2 1/2 years ago just to update my projected figures on alimony, child support, a potential property settlement and what I can expect to have left over to live on should it come to that. I've also done some online apartment/condo research to know what my living costs are going to be if I have to leave our marital house, which I probably will. Bottom line, if I am going to make the decision to leave, I am going to have as much info at my disposal as I can, including the financial figures where possible. Despite all this, I don't consider my marriage a failure. We have three beautiful, well adjusted kids that we never would have had it we didn't get married in the first place. I know that might sound a little cheesy, but my kids are my greatest joy and proudest accomplishment, so much more so than building the businesses I've been able to build. I know that if my marriage doesn't work out, I've done as much as I could do in my mind and it just wasn't meant to be. I'm sure my wife's narrative would be different, but there is only so much I am capable of. However, I've realized that I can no longer ignore/deny my need for physical intimacy and a connection with a woman who genuinely cares about my needs (as I will about hers). I'm not going to go out and have an affair on my wife at this point. I don't want that used against me with my kids so I'd rather we both agree that it isn't working and agree to move on. I think it would make the dissolution easier than having an affair to deal with also. How's everyone else doing?
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Post by flyingsolo on Aug 20, 2020 19:24:31 GMT -5
I'm not "overweight" (5'10" and about 198 lbs) but I've gradually put on about 10-20 more pounds than I want to carry now that I am pushing 50 and no longer playing soccer every week. These past few weeks I've started jumping on my mountain bike every morning and I ride 6-10 miles before work and it feels great to be doing something toward getting healthy and getting rid of some stress. Now two of my buddies have jumped onboard and in addition to riding alone, we meet once a week to ride somewhere together. I've decided that I'm not going to wait around on my wife anymore. We are still "working" on our marriage, but her unwillingness to discuss marital issues, sex, etc. and just discuss the day to day mundane stuff honestly has me a bit disinterested in whether we really fix things at this point. Honestly I just look at her some days and don't feel any attraction as she's pushed me so far away emotionally and physically. I seem to notice beautiful women everywhere these days and I'm pretty sure if our marriage doesn't work out, I'll find a few to date. In the meantime, I'm committed to getting into the best shape I am capable of at this point for my own health and self-esteem. Try jumping on a bike - low stress on the knees and legs, but you'll feel great after.
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Post by flyingsolo on Jul 7, 2020 11:15:54 GMT -5
Yup. Sucks to be us and not have magic wands. 😉 My wand's magic, but my wife apparently doesn't like magic. LOL
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Post by flyingsolo on Jun 24, 2020 16:56:16 GMT -5
Bottom line, you do what works for you. It's your bio. However, limiting yourself based on a political party pretty much halves your eligible suitor list. In some cases, opposites attract.
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Post by flyingsolo on Jun 24, 2020 10:19:15 GMT -5
You lost me at Liberal leaning. LOL
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Post by flyingsolo on Jun 19, 2020 19:36:47 GMT -5
Are you looking for sex or a relationship? (i.e. are you this guy's booty call or are you actually trying to connect on another level?)
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