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Post by johnwyo1 on Aug 19, 2018 17:36:18 GMT -5
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Post by johnwyo1 on Aug 16, 2018 8:35:18 GMT -5
I've really been appreciating this thread. Thank you for starting it. I'll start out my own silver lining list with some piggybacks from the others who have already so aptly replied.
catsloveme, I have also done a lot of self growth. I went through counseling for awhile and found that I wasn't the crazy one and dealt with many of my own issues. I have also worked on my spirituality, kindness, and patience which I needed a lot.
baza, I've also restored some family relationships and even traveled, by myself because my wife said she wouldn't waste the time to go see my mother and other family with me, and I had a thoroughly relaxing and enjoyable vacation by myself. I learned that traveling with just me was better, actually.
And like @andie, I met all you fine people and that has been a blessing. Thank you.
You're right, @workingonit, "tragedy, pain ,growth, meaning, love, great sex. All part of the mess!" are the way we emerge to better things. I haven't found the love and great sex, but perhaps someday.
TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo, I've also had the introspection and and self processing. I also agree that our significant others may not at all be on the same wavelength as us about sexual matters and I am like you in that I don't know how to deal with that yet. Also, my curiosity is vibrantly alive. You are admirable for considering your kids first. I've learned to put others before myself, including my wife, and to do everything as though I was directly serving my Lord by doing whatever task it may be. That's a good silver lining for me.
@lostsoul, your list was so apropos for me. I, too, have learned to to repress rage and be calm even when she is raging at me and is flying off the handle. It doesn't help me to get in the same emotional state. Also, I have learned to find times to masturbate and enjoy it well, while she is away. Instead of furtive jerk offs that I have to hide pretend to not be doing, I take time to care for myself by pleasuring myself well. I've learned to be creative about masturbating too. This is the wrong place to go into details. And unfortunately just like you, I have learned to suppress my sexual desire to enjoy being touched, to enjoy slipping inside a loving woman and being intimate, and to give and receive equally. There was a time when I had to also be depressed and not shoot myself. Thanks for being so honest about all those.
And on my own thoughts, I have learned to enjoy times of good conversation with women other than my wife without feeling the need to further pursue them for sex. I don't want to outsource. But, having times where I can converse about just about anything, including some rare times about sex, with a woman makes up for the total inability of my wife to listen. It's great to be listened to and appreciated sometimes.
I've also come to appreciate being alone much more. When I met my wife over a dozen years ago, I felt lonely. Now, I enjoy not having someone who I have to walk on egg shells around. Peace and quiet is nice.
Thank you all.
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Post by johnwyo1 on Aug 13, 2018 16:46:46 GMT -5
That's a perfectly valid stance to take Brother @lostsoul . The only problem with it is that the continuation - or cessation - of the marriage is NOT at your sole discretion. It may be awfully unlikely, but your missus has equal rights in the dynamic and could pull the plug on the marriage if she so chose. and the car can break, stock market crash, lose the job, plane crash, have a heart attack, fall in the tub and die, etc.... I realize that my wife has the equal potential to end the marriage. But I can only control what I can in my own behavior. I can be forgiving, like I was this weekend when she went off on me again, instead of being mean back to her. She was acting like she wanted to end the marriage and was throwing that around again. Just like when my therapist told me that I needed to not cower in front of her, I stood up to that threat and said that if she needed to in the marriage then that's what she should do. I also said that I didn't want in the marriage and that I would work to have a good marriage. And the next day I showed her forgiveness for all the mean things she had said. That changed her attitude and she for the first time in years at my forgiveness. So yes there can be all sorts of bad things that happen and none of them would be under my control. But at least that much is.
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Post by johnwyo1 on Aug 13, 2018 16:23:58 GMT -5
I'm going to stay. She will have to divorce me if she's so inclined but I'm going to keep trying to be good to her until that happens, one of us dies, or we change and become intimate. Thanks for starting this thread.
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Post by johnwyo1 on Jul 19, 2018 5:31:22 GMT -5
If only Lot's wife had thought this way. But then she was the salt of the earth.
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Post by johnwyo1 on Apr 2, 2018 5:05:02 GMT -5
I could have written the first line of your post myself this weekend. We had another bullshit fight over nothing again to start the weekend. What joy. The details are different of course but this gets to be such a sickening pattern. I got the silent treatment, never an apology, and though I just took the guff without retaliating for her insults, I so wanted to. So wanted to. I hope you are doing better in your relationship to start the week. I think maybe it’s a distancing tactic. What do you think? The big question is Why do we put up with it?! Why do we learn to make do with the crap hand we’re dealt? Geez! We even choose our hand. I think that’s part of my deal. I chose this. I chose him. Did your parents often use the phrase, “you made your bed. Now you need to lie in it.” ? Well, even if we made the bed, we can often choose not to lie in it, especially with someone who continues to be mean and angry. There's nothing good about bed with someone who creates fights with us that shouldn't happen. I do think it can be a distancing technique. My wife also has mood problems and is on meds for some of those issues. I don't know why we learn to make do with the crap we are handed but I know in my case I learned to deal with it stoically by being around my mother. I am like you, too, in that I made a commitment and decided to be in the relationship and feel I should honor my vows. I chose her. I wouldn't make the same choice again but I believe in being a man of my word even when she is like this with the fighting and distancing and no sex hardly ever.
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Post by johnwyo1 on Apr 2, 2018 4:56:11 GMT -5
Oh Dear. Here we go again. Another bullshit fight over nothing. And things had been going so well. This time the argument was about the kids being ready ‘on time’ to go with h to visit his father, mother, and then with his mother to his step dad in the hospital. I’m delivering a bunch of paintings to a gallery tomorrow morning and need to package the artwork - agreed that I’d skip this trip since we’re hosting his whole family for a party here next weekend. Kids weren’t out of bed. I got them up, hurried them along, made their breakfast. All was relatively good. But h was getting anxious about being on time. I suggested- you can always call and say I’ll be a 1/2 hour later. Move everything back 1/2 hour. Come home a 1/2 later. It’s all ok. Or suggest meeting your mom at the hospital to visit her husband and make 2 visits out of the 3? No. His mom needs a social visit away from the hospital to relax. Ok. Your choice. But then as I was brushing the girls hair, getting their things together for the car, drawings for Opa, etc. h gets very agitated. “I’m leaving NOW. You can do whatever you want with the kids.” I’m like “What? That’s a strange reaction. What do you mean by that?” He blusters out the door. I hurry the kids into the car and he peels out of the driveway. <sigh> Again and again and again, I relate a different story, different details, same exact theme. I’m getting stuck here. I know something is off. I know because I feel agitated. Guilty but angry that I’m made to feel guilty. The ‘waking up’ part of me is saying “hey! Red flag! Take notice” but I’m still struggling to really see the dynamic clearly. I’m going to get another silent treatment. I know it. I don’t know if it’s a reaction to being closer over the last few days. I don’t know if it’s the stress of visiting his narcissistic mom and dealing with her crazy since her husband is sick with an uncertain prognosis. He’s got to reach deep to be supportive. I don’t think it comes naturally to him. Is it just being 9 minutes later out the door than he intended that got under his skin? If that’s what set him off than perhaps he should have made sure the kids were out of bed earlier, backed me up when I wanted to send them to bed on time rather than letting them stay up late. I’ve got to figure out what’s going with me when I shoulder all the blame for his upset. There’s a glitch in the system there. I could have written the first line of your post myself this weekend. We had another bullshit fight over nothing again to start the weekend. What joy. The details are different of course but this gets to be such a sickening pattern. I got the silent treatment, never an apology, and though I just took the guff without retaliating for her insults, I so wanted to. So wanted to. I hope you are doing better in your relationship to start the week.
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Post by johnwyo1 on Mar 19, 2018 11:29:24 GMT -5
Excuse the thinking out loud type thread. I have only been on here for a few days but I'm getting messages loud and clear. Sure, I'm angry about my situation. But is that going to help? Short term yes. It's expression. I have a right to be angry. Part of the process of letting go. Now what? It seems as though self love is the way forward. This is the most important thing.Putting me first. Loving me first. Telling me I'm wonderful. I'm good enough. Letting go of toxicity. Letting go of what others think of me. Working hard on me. Loving me. Doing what I want to do. Being who I want to be. Creating space for me to grow. Exploring my sexuality. Reclaiming my sexual power again. Letting go of guilt and shame and rejection. Giving karma back to people who do me wrong. Showing people I'm not to be messed with. Changing me for me. Changing my life for me. Understanding the process. Understanding where I am at. Why I am feeling what I am feeling. Knowing who I am. Loving who I am. I don't need my wife's vagina to feel good about myself. I don't need anyone's vagina to feel good about myself. Right now I need me more. My love. My nurturing. My understanding. My own love. Sure I am looking at meeting up with an ex for sex play soon. This might happen. It might not. I'll decide. I also look at my own destructive behaviour. This is rambling. I love myself. I love my body. You're right. Being the best we can be, caring for ourselves as properly as we can, and loving ourselves is very important. We are more attractive if we do so, if we're healthy emotionally and mentally, if we're physically well. That can attract our partners, maybe, or make us appealing to someone who will replace the sexless partner. Plus, we feel better and can enjoy life some.
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Post by johnwyo1 on Mar 15, 2018 20:34:17 GMT -5
Count me as another no-sex-on-wedding-night member. (And only sex on honeymoon when I initiated and did all the “work”.) Hmm, might be interesting to see how many of us fall into this category... Me too. I was ready but we were both exhausted and she was on her period. So, I don't fault her or me. Just a foreshadowing?!
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Post by johnwyo1 on Mar 7, 2018 7:35:53 GMT -5
“I guess giving is the way to get more? Talk doesn't help with her. Sorry this is so long.” Not if you are with a taker. Only way to get her to give is to make your giving contingent on her giving. It seems you have no one in real life to talk to. Why have you chosen to have no close friends? What do you get out of constantly giving and getting little back? I respect what you are saying very much. I've seen with my wife that making things contingent causes her to shut down. I am with a taker and I get that. Maybe in her birth family and all their mess she had to learn to be one. The origins are somewhat immaterial at this point I suppose. I do have some people to talk to about some things. I have friends, just no one to talk about this marriage with. Maybe that is my fault but I wouldn't talk to my friends at church about this, nor the pastor, because they may not understand well or may try to talk to my wife about it, and then she would be really upset. In my life, I have always had one close friend. Since I moved here a dozen years ago, that just hasn't materialized. When that does, I'll have the male friend I could talk to. Giving is something I enjoy and I am good at it. However, I'd enjoy getting back, too. Lately, my wife has been more giving and I am grateful and letting her know I appreciate her and what she is doing. I am trying to reinforce her that way.
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Post by johnwyo1 on Mar 5, 2018 7:45:30 GMT -5
I get where you're coming from listedship . But my hope is that for some of the folks in different situations: ones where they are still trying to actively work on their marriages and sex/intimacy, (people like h , lwoetin , johnwyo1 , xpiatio etc.) it might help shed some light on how their wives may possibly be approaching sex and intimacy in ways different from the way they are. Thank you for posting this article. It is very interesting and I may take time to do the emotional needs questionnaire that is there for my own information. I think that often the emotional needs of the spouses don't line up accurately, just as the author wrote. And, even if they do, the spouses don't find the same ways of meeting them. In fact, if they did meet up when they married, the means of meeting needs and perceptions of what's most important drift over time. When I got to the end of the article and saw the part about affection, sexual fulfillment, conversation, and recreational companionship, and saw you mentioned me in your post, I thought about those in light of my marriage. I'll try to shed some light about how my wife is approaching life in general and how our sex life is functioning right now. I'll try to answer each one briefly. For several years, there wasn't much affection. As she went through menopause, that dried up and she didn't want me to hug or touch her a lot. She didn't like kissing. From the start of our marriage, she wasn't a very engaged kisser and not very good at it. Right now, she is enjoying it more and is liking me touching her more and is also touching me back. For example in bed this morning, she reached out and touched my shoulder and arm. That was not happening at all. Another example is that she and I kissed deeply and she really tried to do it well when I washed her in the shower a couple weeks back. Since she has been on additional medications, it seems she is trying and enjoying too. A plus as of late and it would be a joy for me to have more affection from her continuing. Conversation with my wife is very one sided. She is a terrible listener. Even when we went to therapy together, she couldn't listen in that situation where she was being kindly and gently guided to do so. She is very distractable and will even jump off topic when she's talking, which I almost laughed out loud about yesterday. She likes to talk a lot and fortunately I am a good listener. Telling her that I have no one to talk with and that she doesn't listen was poison to our relationship. I regret having admitted that to her. I just realize that is not a capacity she developed in her life and is likely not to now after observing her in conversations with her best friends. She's the same with them. Sigh. Recreational companionship is fine with her if we do what she wants. We just got back from a Florida vacation that she says was the best vacation of her life. I enjoyed, too, but it was nothing of my choice of where to go and what to do. Last summer, I needed to go visit family and asked her to vacation with me. She refused, flat out, and while I was gone bought a new boat to show her independence and to demonstrate to me what she wants. After, she picked on me for wasting money on the travel I did. Rather a low point. So, I would say that at this point I am getting recreational companionship only if I go with her to do what she wants. I'd prefer otherwise and when I go with her the expense of time and money to me leaves with nothing left to travel or recreate locally on my own. Oh well. Sexual fulfillment has been very low but I am thinking that her medicine changes, especially the estrogen cream for her woman parts are helping. We have had some kind of sexual relations for 4 weeks running now. Only once a week, but it's as much sex as we had for the previous 10 months. The author of the article wrote about overcoming pain and the meds are helping her with that, thank God. She's been more active in bed and tried to make me feel good, including an effort to give oral sex well. That was a big change and I am glad for it. I am thinking my marriage is missing a lot in the 4 areas. I guess giving is the way to get more? Talk doesn't help with her. Sorry this is so long.
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Post by johnwyo1 on Feb 12, 2018 21:19:02 GMT -5
You do what we all do. We assume that if we improve ourselves then they will be attracted, show the love and affection we crave. You now know you are perfectly desirable and hot and sexy. You just needed the man with the functional dick and working libido. Tbh I could have worked with the limp dick if he would have tried. So many other ways to please me. Yes, many ways. I could do a whole speech like Forrest Gump's friend Bubba did about shrimp. 'Cept my list would be ways to enjoy sex together. And that's all I have to say about that.
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Post by johnwyo1 on Feb 12, 2018 21:14:48 GMT -5
Boy do I get that. When you give your trust over to them, that includes your need to be sexually desirable. When that person you trust to want you, crave you, be turned on by you can't get it up or get wet over your body, over the pleasure to come as they make love, it's a betrayal in a most intimate place inside us. I really thought it was me at first. I made huge changes. Weight, clothes, activities I was involved in, professional. I changed everything trying to make him happy. I gave up. Got laid outside the marriage and realized it was him and not me. You do what we all do. We assume that if we improve ourselves then they will be attracted, show the love and affection we crave. You now know you are perfectly desirable and hot and sexy. You just needed the man with the functional dick and working libido.
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Post by johnwyo1 on Feb 12, 2018 21:05:31 GMT -5
I did feel so much, especially the disappointment and discouragement from the poor limp dick. It's tough when your spouse doesn't get aroused by you. It's really sad and it messes with my head continuously. No matter how done I am with him it still hurts. Boy do I get that. When you give your trust over to them, that includes your need to be sexually desirable. When that person you trust to want you, crave you, be turned on by you can't get it up or get wet over your body, over the pleasure to come as they make love, it's a betrayal in a most intimate place inside us.
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Post by johnwyo1 on Feb 12, 2018 21:00:05 GMT -5
Thank you for putting so much thought and feeling in this poem. I like it a lot. Your welcome!!!!!! I did feel so much, especially the disappointment and discouragement from the poor limp dick. It's tough when your spouse doesn't get aroused by you.
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