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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 21, 2017 20:56:56 GMT -5
Thankyou baza Absolutely "Sort your Shit" Out. Absolutely it is a life long process. @smartkat - yes indeed, time is of the essence - getting a Ph D on oneself lasts until the last day of life. Taking this all in, "Know Thyself" - Maturity, learning from past mistakes, Learning MY PART in every failure - what did I do wrong - Why did I do it? To date, the "Sorting my Shit" out generally boils down to EGOISM and FEAR and DISHONEST THINKING (i.e., I delude myself or deny a situation because it is easier if I lies to myself than admit with ugliness and scariness of the truth). In terms of Relationships - I think I have learned a lot - The Restart Button may very well be hit soon. I have 25 years of failed relationships (3 in 25 years) to chalk up to EXPERIENCE - I am a little wiser and aware of all that I did wrong and for the love of God not to make those mistakes again.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 21, 2017 19:39:17 GMT -5
"Who started it", "who then threw petrol on it", "who then lit a match", "who then ignited it" passed into irrelevancy some time back. The answers to these questions no longer matter. The answers - even if known - will do nothing to extinguish the conflagration. However, it is possible that in the inquest, it might be revealed that *you* have a tendency to play with matches. That might be a good thing to sort out in yourself. Won't do anything to put this present fire out, but may be very useful if there is a "next time" for you. Sort your own shit out. Much appreciated baza Very much respected to read.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 21, 2017 16:39:12 GMT -5
lakeside4003 Respect for your efforts and actions . . . Right now - my marriage is just a zombie shell - she never even touches me or tries to touch me. And me neither towards her. It has been like this for many years. Frankly I do not even have the will to try and fix this - how can we be a normal couple again with deep love and affection. I am sorry but I just cannot "manufacture" and be an "actor" performing in my life. I would feel forced into this like a disciplined and punishment to have to "FAKE" caring about her at this point - at least physically - I do care for her and wish her happiness and fulfillment. But for this kind of thing, it has to come from the Heart and be sincere - at this point I would only be acting and following orders because deep down inside I have ZERO desire to even touch her ever again!
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 21, 2017 16:24:58 GMT -5
I honestly do not recall having my wife ever reject - and she did "initiate" last February during a Ski Trip (nothing since then) - but I have not initiated either. So right now over past year - she has initiated 1 time and I have not initiated.
I remember about 10 years ago - maybe more she said she only needed sex about 1 to 2 a month. The reason I have not initiated much is because of "outsourcing" over long periods of time - but that is getting really old and I realize now it is empty and goes nowhere - just a half measure "coping mechanism" and after so many years of experimenting - it is unfulfilling - I am more than just animalistic urges. I still believe strongly in real True Love - where a couple can grow on so many levels and nurture each other and love each other (sex and all the other million things) - right now we are "room mates" with children.
The fact that she rarely initiates is bad - but neither do I.
Seriously, as crazy as this sounds I hope she has a lover on the side or something. Going years and years with minimal sex - and more importantly no intimacy or romance - Sex for me is just the physical act and an expression that is very important but ONLY a part of the whole picture of a healthy sacred loving couple (intimacy, cuddling, expressing love to each other by words and other creative ways, etc.).
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 21, 2017 10:19:42 GMT -5
Once again, I read a post on here and think . . . Holy Cow, more AUTO-BIOGRAPHY to the letter. Yes indeed, I can relate.
For me, it was so obviously 100% MY FAULT . . . I stopped initiating, she had every right to never approach me with tenderness or intimacy . .. never mind sex.
The "Sexless Marriage" for me . . . the lack of sex . . . is just the tip of the iceberg . . . it is the gateway to truth . . . the deeper more horrible truths that the love and the companionship is gone.
Right now I can state in "Macho terms" that I am still in our marriage for 2 reasons: our two children together. But then I get massive feedback on "Really, maybe you are staying in the marriage for selfish reasons " . . . so I am not alone, so I do not face the unknown, not be separated from my children, fear of financial insecurity (Because she is 100 times richer than I am), fear to walk out and free with nothing but a ruck sack and a motorcycle (she will have the house the business and the children).
However, what do I want? Why was I drawn to ILIASM? Since being on this Site I have honestly looked at my cowardice and fear . . . and actually looked into my Heart which I forgot all about.
So who is ultimately responsible? F-- if I know, sure I will take 100% guilt for it if she wants and she will because she never is at fault in our 14 year marriage, it is ALWAYS me that is the failure, the disappointment, the one who is inadequate and lacking. I will take the guilt and the unknown and the freedom and maybe . . . just maybe my DIGNITY and a hope for True Sacred Love with Someone before I shed this mortal coil.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 18, 2017 18:27:10 GMT -5
Reading all the great follow-up posts.
If I am really in love with a Woman - there is no way I could share her - barring some very specific unusual circumstances.
What is the point of being together in an SM if you must outsource sex? There is no "couple life"
SEX is only a symptom per my experience. I do not consider myself an animal that simply must relieve primitive animalistic urges. Sex in its purest form is the ultimate expression of love between two soul mates - this is the Holy Graal of life perhaps. Anything less than that is a compromise and coping mechanism. I speak from my heart and intuition.
So having an "open marriage" for sex and intimacy while being married to the same spouse? I mean if the society rules forbid divorce and you are stuck in the marriage - I guess so. but why in our time now?
Is that really your heart's desire - just to outsource or is it only delaying addressing the real problem and a half measure coping mechanism.
Actually, I speak from experience, and I have had years and years of "coping mechanisms" and "outsourcing" - it was horrible compared to being in love or more profoundly in a loving relationship with 2 people committed to each other to be one flesh - body, mind, and soul. I personally have stopped this "half measure" temporary fix and will go for the sacred union or die trying.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 18, 2017 18:16:38 GMT -5
You are no longer alone. Welcome. This forum was made for you. It is a God send. The collective wisdom here is phenomenal.
Speaking of my own experience, I have to take responsibility for my own life and not be at the mercy of anyone.
From reading your post, I would think DIVORCE seems like a reasonable solution. Why have you not considered that yet?
It is good and fundamental to treat your depression and anything else mental / physical health. From what little I know (reading your post), it seems you need to get out of this toxic relationship and save yourself. Life is too short and precious to be miserable in an SM.
God bless.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 17, 2017 17:48:05 GMT -5
That is a novel idea - I wonder if that my be the case in my marriage -
as you hear so often here there is the "Refuser" and the "Asker" - my wife and I are so SM pathetic that I am not sure if there are any "Refusers" in our relationship because neither of us even bother asking - we have had an SM for about 8 years or so. The last time was about 10 months ago and before that 8 months and I think a year or more etc. etc.
The main concern or unforeseen Event that could happen is that what is just a physical / intimate outlet turns into a Mad Falling In Love - I can tell you this can definitely happen and not because I read it somewhere. This happens of course whether it is an authorized open marriage or just garden variety "outsourcing" as they say here.
If you and your H really want to stay married - for whatever reason - and this fixes the problem - then why the heck not.
There is also the risks of jealousy and things getting out of control etc. But again if it can fix the problem and make you a happier couple then why not.
At this point, I realize that one of the fundamentals to a strong loving couple is absolute trust in each other - this would of course imply total honesty and transparency so the two really can be one. If it is agreed and honestly so - then again why the heck not.
Personally for me - I dont think I could do that but that is just me - not a moral judgment - oh heck no - just me knowing me.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 16, 2017 19:18:02 GMT -5
hopingforachange The most Romantic even I dare Sexual Book in the Bible is SONG OF SOLOMON (it is in the Old Testament). It is loaded with images and poetry about love making and romance. Suggest you both study that . . . Good to hear your progress - you sound like a couple that is just "Sexless" but the love and will to stay together is there and the willingness to make each other happy.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 16, 2017 15:32:54 GMT -5
lakeside4003 Man that just hurts to read. I have not even bothered though - now that I think about it - she complains about me - not in a loud agressive way - just in subtle ways. I have no desire to touch her any more - it has been years really. Full respect to your story and the actions you are taking. Right on. And NO F-----G WAY are you refusing - Maybe refusing to be humiliated and a beggar - Jeez - I cannot believe this is happening. Unbelievable - I think you have the collective full support of the entire community - you sure as hell have mine.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 16, 2017 15:30:17 GMT -5
so, this thread got me thinking a bit more...I'm not really sure if I'm refusing her under these circumstances. (remember, it's my wife who 'avoids similar bedtimes', 99% of the time for 15+ yrs now). our typical pattern is: I ask her to join me up in bed when I head upstairs at night ('no thanks, I'm going to stay up awhile') or attempt a suggestive nuzzle in the morning when I awake (7am) - which is too early for her, as she sleeps from 2a-9a 9 ('leave me alone, I'm still sleeping'). The rare times we've had sex, it's always in the morning - mostly however, after I've already been up an hour or so, had my coffee, took out the trash, let the dog out, fed the cat, read the paper - and cleaned up last nights dishes. on rare occasions, when she's feeling somewhat guilty about no sex in 3-4 months - having rebuffed me numerous times, she'll come downstairs, in her frumpy, old-lady pj's and ask me if I want to come back to bed? (not do you want to get naked?, or I'm feeling horny, or anything along those lines - just a straight out business proposition.) No kisses, nuzzling, sensuality - and certainly nothing sexy about it at all - just a 'check-off-the-box' offer. about 2 years ago coming off of another 8-10mo drought - I told her that the wind had gone out of my sails for hoping, fantasizing, asking, dreaming, expecting that we'd have at least occasional sex. hey, I'm still full-out horny, but don't want to keep riding this spiraling downward train... So, not wanting to repeat the pattern of having usually bland/starfish re-set sex once or twice and then returning to zero for the next 3-4 months - I usually tell her 'thanks, but no thanks'. Sometimes I'll let her know that 'I already took matters into my own hand'. Am I refusing?
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 16, 2017 3:19:08 GMT -5
Marriage "contract" is that
To Love and Cherish
Until Death due us part.
If one spouse has failed in the "love and cherish" (and an SM is but a symptom of deeper failure - no love, no intimacy, no feeding the soul from two lovers bonded as one flesh etc)
Then the "Unfaithful" Partner who "cheats" or asks for a "divorce" - is not really the guilty party breaching the contract are they???
A loveless sexless passionless marriage is ALREADY broken - most cases beyond repair especially when it has turned SM for multiple years and we find ourselves in the "Elephant Graveyard" of the worst marriages under the sun.
The "infidelity" or Divorce is just an after event.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 16, 2017 2:45:42 GMT -5
My sympathies and respect to your current troubles. I would definitely "lawyer up" as was suggested.
With limited facts available my assessment is this is OVER and you need to move on but in a protected and supported way. Do you have any trusted friends or family ("trusted" being key word - i.e., support you and not judge you or give bad advice even if well intended) and probably get a lawyer to guide you thru the legal complexities of at least your bank account and maybe separation and ultimate D.
In my first marriage (now on second marriage which is SM, first one was not just dysfunctional and loveless), my wife stayed out all night and when I asked where she was the next morning when she came home after sunrise - she said to me "Who I am with and what I do is none of your business" - that was the death knell of our marriage - I immediately moved out and made a decision that it was over - no going back. She regretted that big time when later and begged foregiveness etc. - but it was too late in my mind - I had suffered enough to be right in my mind to move forward free from her. Your H's disappearance for a week seems analogous to what I described above - analogous but I do not have all facts and so many variables of course to consider.
Of course I cannot make this decision for you and do not have all the facts and so on. I am only sharing my experience in a similar situation.
Bless you and let your heart be filled with courage and your mind clear to assess and decide!
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 15, 2017 20:13:42 GMT -5
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 15, 2017 18:32:57 GMT -5
Why the "Refuser" ? It has been so long neither of us are even a "Demander." It is just radio silence in the passion/romance/intimacy realm and has been for a LONG TIME.
Maybe I am in a deeper level of total disfunction because my wife and I are so Platonic now and for years neither of us are Refusers because neither of us are Demanders (say sex average 1 per 9 months for 10 years).
Years ago she said she had a lower libido and thought sex once every 2 weeks was enough. I was aiming for once a day. I "outsourced" sex after that - so I guess she was the Refuser going back 10 years or so.
Now I just had an eiphany because I fell madly in love with one of my Outourcers - we are madly in love with each other - madly being the key word - the passion is overwhelming. I am this close to running off but I think of my children.
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