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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 28, 2017 13:51:48 GMT -5
My "Therapy" right now is talking to many friends and I am learning to my amazement how many are or were in SM.
One of my trusted business friends told me his wife and him were in SM for 7 years because he cheated on her and then he finally fell in love or at least met a new woman who was also in a horrible marriage and now are happy together.
Another Friend, older gentlemen, was in an SM with his second wife - more a business relationship really -and got an Eastern Euopean Lover and his mean second wife died from alcoholism and he is now very happy with his Eastern European wife now of over 8 years.
I can go on and on - I have got a list of my Guy Buddies and some Ladies who were or are in horrible marriages and I have a readily made support network after just a few weeks.
This Forum has helped tremendously too of course.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 28, 2017 13:40:59 GMT -5
Excellent - thought provoking - Examine our lives.
My Mother is absolutely committed to the Family and swears despite all the hell my father put her thru that she still LOVES him. They are in their 70s now and my father had his prostrate removed - so they are probably SM but old and I dont really want to go there.
My mother is definnitely "copendent" especially when you see how much hard times and abuse (non-physical but definitely mental and suffering) and he laid in bed in a depression for years in a midlife crisis and she worked and supported him and would not accept how he had collapsed as a man.
Earlier, throughout my childhood, I always remember my Mother and Father being so in love - they would make out in the kitchen and my sister and I would get disgusted. I even walked in on them embraced in love making. I think eventually my father had mistresses - his business partners sure as hell did. He took to me a nudy bar once on a sort of business trip in Hong Kong and he had Playboys. But still over all I really remember my parents being romantic and loving for most of my childhood thru their 40s and my mom apparently had a nick name for being really sexual (I wont repeat it here it emerged in the 70s).
My father treated my mother for many years now with contempt and authority - he was totally dominator in the family - everyone was subservient to his Iron Will through out my childhood.
This is not at all my situation - My Wife makes more money than me - a lot more - and all the children look to her for authority. And my wife is definitely a committed and loving mother but not a loving spouse. If I did not initiate - she would NEVER have - I basically stopped years ago because it got so boring.
My Wife Father has been married and divorced 3 times and has gone thru Women and probably passionate romance for years. My Wife´s Mother is a "Confirmed Bachelor" and she is very close to her Mother. My Wife´s Grandmother was in an SM with her Grand Father and refused sex with him. Apparently he had lots of mistresses for the decades of his late life. It was back in the 60s and 70s in Europe and elsewhere.
So if I look at my Wife´s "Baggage" she comes from Matriarchal authority where Women have been essentially "Sexless Marriage" with H allowed to have mistresses (Her GrandFather) or her Mother is a "Confirmed Bachelor" (no boyfriend or anything for over 10 years and long time divorced with only one Big Love about 15 years ago).
Compared to me where I suppose I take after my Mother more than my Father where I want to be totally committed in a loving relationship.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 28, 2017 8:34:39 GMT -5
Intimacy is anything and everything that reconnects partners. Hand holding. Brushing back hair. Cradling his face in my hands. Sweet, gentle kisses. Conspiratorial whispering to each other. Walking arm in arm. Sitting on his lap, at the pub. Deep, eye contact, whether we are alone in the room, or not. Bringing me a cup of coffee the way I like it, just because. Within the sexual experience - Lying in each other's arms after sex. Sweet, sexy and naughty "I want you" texts. Looking into our eyes as we fuck. Intimacy to me, is all about my man and I. Oh this is exceptionally moving and valid. Sorry that you were "deleted" as a member.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 28, 2017 8:32:36 GMT -5
A naked hug, a deep kiss that leaves you breathless, holding hands as you walk, the "look" with a smile, the reaching for each other just because you are apart. (And thank you, now I'm sad. Tool) Perfect. Absolutely. I have NONE of that by the way or even want it anymore from current W. No intimacy asked for and none shall be given.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 28, 2017 3:43:37 GMT -5
IT was truly amazing! She cannot accept that I don't want to be married to her. We have been living separately since March 1 of 2016, I told her that things have not improved, and I want to move on. She still thinks I should want to work things out. I will be telling my lawyer to get it filed next week. Well I am also asking my friends who I know personally - I am finding many people who are dear to my heart are in SM and really more so LOVELESS Marriages. One of my best trusted friends was in a Sexless Marriage for over 7 years and then found a lady and fell in love and asked his wife for a divorce. She was shocked and could not understand.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 27, 2017 21:00:20 GMT -5
My guess is he - And these are GUESSES (I am a Man - this sort of sounds familiar)
1) May have Erectile Disfunction and is embarrassed (obvious did he try Viagra or Cialis?)
2) He has a porn or sex addiction or "outsourcing" with a lover, etc. (any other sex on the side possibilities) and feels guilty or something and does this as "compensation" in his mind.
3) He really is asexual (which seems like not even a possibility - I cannot imagine me not wanting Sex ever- but that is just me).
4) He is faking it - he really is not attracted to you (for whatever reason among so many) and is just doing this because he is "supposed to" or thinks it will placate you.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 27, 2017 3:04:40 GMT -5
I'd posit a hypothetical scenario where you are 100% to blame for the big fuck up your marriage morphed in to. Then i'd pose this question - "so fucking what " ?? The marriage is still a shithole irrespective of who caused it, who is to blame, who isn't to blame, who has the moral highground or who hasn't. And, you get the casting vote. If you want, you can end it. EVEN if you are 100% to blame. Or 0% to blame. Thank-you baza for your extraordinarly ability here to cut thru the "red tape" and go right to the heart of the matter. I suppose it is my deep instilled and pathological sense of guilt. 100% or 0% I get the casting vote - so obvious but yet I could not see that. Sublime.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 27, 2017 2:41:29 GMT -5
Stay focused on your plan @jaybo Mcroommate. At this point, I'm almost obsessing over mine. Of course you know that in no jurisdiction can she keep your children from you unless you've been proven unfit - something tells me you are of course quite fit to parent. lyn Thank-you. I do my best - per my W I am 100% of all the problems of our family - my selfishness my lack of caring etc. etc. I am not perfect but I try - there is no abuse or arguing in our house - I try to help out as best I can and all I get is perpetual reminders of my "inadequacies" meanwhile she plays video games all week-end in her pajamas and then binge watches TV shows on her laptop - because she is too stressed from work and it helps her cope. She does work hard (owner of medium company) but in terms of our relationship ZERO EFFORT from her - I too stopped making efforts about a few years ago - I recently stopped even giving symbolic kisses and hugs - which was all that was left. Oh, I went thru a traumatic divorce - mainly resulting in separation my daughter - my 1st wife was alcoholic manic depressive and has since died. My current wife is hard working and a big heart for her children and many others but for me - I am just her "inadequacy". First step is I must get financially independent (I work at her company) second - then I can address the Exit - After 10 years of SM - I see any repair effort as a matter of pulling the plug or not - there is nothing in my heart left for her - just respect for her many good qualities but I need a real relationship in a loving couple - if I stay with her impossible.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 27, 2017 2:34:38 GMT -5
Congratulations, flashjohn , for taking control of your life. Most of those conversations that I've read about involve the STBX totally consumed with their desire to remain in the relationship. We are not a matter of interest here. Our needs are never a matter of interest, and never were. I suspect that in most or all cases here, there are extreme fears of abandonment involved. And not just our spouses, but us too. Not everyone puts in 10 years or more of total celibacy before punching out. For many people it is a year or less. But I digress. Anyway, it occurred to me that most of us handle this wrong. We announce our decision to divorce, and then defend our decision. That's a loser, at least in terms of Harvard Debating Points. Perhaps a better solution is to ask your spouse the following question: Given the circumstances of our marriage, what's in it for me if I stay? Convince me why *I* want to stay in this relationship. That should force a huge change in the debating dynamics. Your spouse will then try to return to forcing you to defend your decision, in terms of THEIR needs. You might want to ignore all that and just keep repeating the question: "What's in it for me? I'm a party to this marriage too!" beachguy Wow. Here is what I get ALL THE TIME - a recurring jingo "I am Selfish" "I do not care about our children" when her Grandmother died my W was very emotional and the truth slipped out "You are the Worst Person in the World" My Needs? Why that is only selfish egomania. I readily admit that I am maybe 70% of the cause or more or less but NOT 100%. She is the main financial provider to the family and still is beautiful and could get a 1000 men of her choosing - good ones no doubt. I am perpetually reminded of all my inadequacies - and so now have ZERO WILL to want to try to repair this. I have asked my W two times this week "Do I bring you any Joy?" she refused to answer -first time gave me an annoying look and second time just totally ignored me. My next question - when ducks are more in a row for exit (firstly I work for her and need to get financially independent ASAP) - "Why do you want to stay with me?" I know the answer - "for the children and family is first" that is what she said when she "caught" me talking on FB to a lady (we were not even doing anything) she started packing my things in boxes hysterically saying look what I did for your family (she did help them) and this is how you repay me. It is like I am "Bought" by her for having children and money - but intimacy/love/ etc. - is not relevant in her analysis.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 26, 2017 19:34:09 GMT -5
My next question to her . . . and the timing has to be just right because this little question could unleash a massive pent up tension "Why are you still with me then?"
But my escape plan (Financial independence, etc.) is still in process.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 26, 2017 19:32:39 GMT -5
Inspiring post. I am just now "Waking up" to the fact I have been in an SM for over 10 years (last sex was 11 months ago, 8 months before that etc.) I have asked my W 2 times in the past few days "Do I bring you any Joy in Life?" she does not even answer me.
Tonight when I kissed our 5 year old daughter good night , my W said I was too rough and I said "What do you know about kissing" and she knew what I was talking about.
She of course blamed our SM on me. I said yes I know 100% my fault but it takes two to tango.
I am psychologically preparing myself for high turbulance and tornados these coming months - I work at her company now - so first is getting another job before the storm hits - and pray she does not use our children as weapons / defensive shields. When in the past she threatened things about separating she said "You will never see your children again"
I appreciate your courageous post and actions. Seeing posts like yours is why I am here.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 25, 2017 18:01:42 GMT -5
It is cheating but they broke the vows first. My answer to your poll is none of the above. I was faithful for 21 SM years. The last 13 celibate despite the fact that he knew I wanted sex with him. He watched porn secretly and lord only knows what else secretly. So my conclusion was if he did not want to include me in his sexuality then he has no right to knowing about mine when I outsourced. Absolutely. There is an implied condition of SEX between spouses - If one spouse refuses, the contract´s performance is breached and the other party is no longer bound. Now to fess up - Yes I "outsourced" long before I could have reasonably tried to amend/ offered therapy / talked about it. However, I have not read any posts (maybe 1 or 2, but I think Zero) where the H/W had a long term SM and then did any technique that brought back a normal sex life. So I am quite confident there was nothing to do anyway - call it "TERMINAL SEXLESS MARRIAGE" and no cure after such a long long time with no Sex, No Intimacy, No Affection. Society will call it "cheating" other cultures would stone me for adultery - so yes it is HIGH RISK - but so is stepping into an arena. Life is worth living and you take risk - manage / derisk as best as possible - but still risky nonetheless. The final Caveat: Cheating or Outsourcing (whatever you want to call it) has an unforeseen risk and that is "FALLING IN LOVE" - it can happen at the most inopportune time and the most unexpected way - Trust me.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 25, 2017 17:43:31 GMT -5
wom360 She makes 10 times more than I do. She has her own company and relies on my pennies for her big dollars. She is also still quite attractive and charming. May I ask where you might be going with this? Very thought provoking I must say. My wheels are turning . . . I have a theory about power balance and sexless marriage. You seem to fit right into it. Many women want to think they're somehow modern and evolved but they just aren't into men who can't match them financially. Many house husbands are sexless for example. What's more, they can't understand or admit that it has something to do with it. wom360 Well it is a very interesting theory. Well you certainly have another data point that is consistent. I would like to think I know exactly why but I do not (I was out drinking and partying and then sobered up and changed, too much work etc). She always made more than me and now a lot more. Fortunes may change but that is pure forward looking speculation. Back to "here and now" and pattern over past 10 years . . . yes your theory has another data point. It was ALWAYS me that initiated upon request and I got sick of asking - and did get rejected from time to time. She NEVER initiated sex and since New Years - I have stopped even "Initiating" kissing or hugs (pathetic almost symbolic token kisses and hugs). In any event - I hope your theory is true because that makes me slightly less "guilty" - and of course she would blame our SM on me 100%. I am certain of that.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 25, 2017 17:35:37 GMT -5
Carol sorry to hear that. Have you told him such? I have to say your situation seems unique. In my SM, the no sex part seems to be just a symptom of a much bigger deep problem of "Room Mates with Kids" and that there is ZERO even PDA, no intimacy, no hugs, no holds, no kisses, even if she touches me it is by accident and she says "excuse me". Maybe there is still romantic love or "in love" with yours. I do not know, I am wondering. Medical condition? Other? He says it is a mental/psychological issue. We are in therapy together and separate. He is in the beginning of trying to find a sex therapist to help the issue. Let's say I don't have a positive outlook for the future. I've been thinking lately, does he really love me because he wants me or does he just need me? I think there is a difference between the two. I need air to breathe, but I want that air to be clean. Well we are here together at least and NOT alone if by a Forum. In terms of getting into the definition of Love especially into a long term relationship - I will listen humbly.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 25, 2017 8:13:29 GMT -5
Most people are shocked that I haven't had sex in 3.5 years. No hugs in 2 years. I haven't had sex where my husband pretended to be into it since I was 24 and I'm 31 now. Hugs. Maybe she can help you out. Me too - SM for over 10 years (Average sex 1 time per 9 to 18 months) - As of New Years I even stopped giving "symbolic" hugs or little kisses. She does not even initiate a hug. She even said "excuse me" the other day when she accidentally touched me. I am thinking a Therapist before any decisions are taken - I cannot take it anymore as is.
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