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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 2, 2017 11:12:30 GMT -5
Often pulling out a gun and pointing it at someone can get an immediate (if temporary) change in behavior. When you used the words Outsource and Divorce, you put a pair of six shooters on the table facing him. It is unlikely any behavioral changes are the result of a newfound wellspring of love. Rather, he is looking down the barrels of those guns not liking what he sees. Beautifully put. Basic Human Behavior . . . so obvious yet so hidden - certainly from me. Divorce / Outsourcing yes indeed - scaring the "Controller" for a change. Very nice and a bit poetic justice.
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 2, 2017 3:32:51 GMT -5
Sham wow Your not a weird dude, it's just a really hard question for me anyway to answer, I have forgotten what love really is at this point and it will be something I will even have to sit down and ponder flowerdust For many years, I had long since TOTALLY FORGOTTEN what Love was . . . to actually have genuine feelings for another . . . I can tell you that the Universe (or God if you want) will show you again, in my case, in the most unexpected place and with the most unforeseen person . . . it was not by my choice. As the Viscount de Valmont said in "Dangerous Liaisons" it is "Out of my control". My experience is Love is the most powerful of all human emotions and perhaps even the binding force of the Universe itself, and it is not a "Choice" it is overpowering to the person that in turn emanates it from the heart and soul. A few maximes: - No amount of money can buy love - everything else in this universe is for sale but not love (Sex, Gold, Power, even Earth itself, etc.). - Love is free though it has no price and is the most valuable and precious of all that touches Humans - Love or "Being in Love" is never a choice by the individual - Whether that "Being in Love" burns out or turns into a Long Term Loving Relationship is a choice, in fact a million choices and actions. That is my three cents.
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 2, 2017 1:54:52 GMT -5
greatcoastal Thank-you for that. One of the things you all are teaching and discussing is the DOING - yes we need to understand all the psychological underpinnings of the disfunction from "sorting our shit out" and learning about how we are manipulated by FOG / Emotional BlackMail and "Control", BUT and it is a big but - - - At the end of the Day it will be a question of Courage and ACTIONS fueled by Courage. I very much appreciate your experience on overcoming Obligation and Guilt and taking action and succeeding - yes not a guarantee but then again if we DO nothing, that is a guaranteed failure. So what have we to lose? Exactly.
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 1, 2017 15:28:42 GMT -5
Hard work: Not sitting at home feeling sorry for your self. Need a few strong tipping points to make it happen? that's understandable, you've been conditioned to take it for years. Keep a journal, and use their words right back at them and learn how much their selfish behavior is on display through their use of manipulation, control,and double standards. Knowing your legal rights, and what an attorney will predict the outcome of a divorce will be ,gives you the foundation to start a new home, a new identity, with a new purpose. You have to take those steps in faith, "ask yourself,"what have I got to loose", and build yourself up by remembering all of your past accomplishments that you have going for you. The Tipping Point is a done deal. So I am taking ACTION - I am in the very uncomfortable place where I work for my wife´s company and so i am talking to recruiters and other start-up ideas. The main thing is I want to be totally financially independent. Right now 100% of my income comes from my wife´s company. I am totally comfortable leaving the house and all the money to her and just my Motorcycle and a few boxes and I am good to go. But I have kids to pay for (prior marriage) and abject poverty should be avoided if at all possible. First step is Financial Independence then "THE TALK" will soon follow. But I am in a very cornered position now - talk about Control. Jeeze Louize.
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 1, 2017 14:50:59 GMT -5
Thank-you bballgirl Your post really hit home for me. I think my W would be much more mature but in terms of where I am - I could copy paste your poste on my Consciousness and I am there pretty much to the word. It was really almost cathartic reading your poste - like "therapy" TRIPLE WOW - Man I could relate too too much. Respect! Let me offer you some HOPE! My current experience is when I am with my men's groups we talk about taking risks, taking actions, being bold, being respected, gaining respect,communicating in this manor, being accepted, and appreciated. Finding joy, and gaining ground in life this way. Also that this requires hard work. Like most things in life that are valuable require hard work. Giving and taking, a covenant , and an agreement. When marriage gets brought up, they look at me, and say"except for you, Great Coastal, yours is different, you deal with different circumstances." My opinion is that is the overwhelming majority of those of us on this sight. Which gives me HOPE that finding an alternative with someone else is highly doable,attainable, achievable, with hard work. Thank-you greatcoastal Very HOPE indeed. And not just mere hope but practical "How To" Absolutely you nailed it "Finding an alternative with someone else is highly doable, attainable, achievable, with hard work." HARD WORK - everything in life worth having is by "hard work" 100% agree in heart and theory - now to APPLY it. Easier said than done - but at least now it is said, which is better than a month ago.
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 1, 2017 9:43:04 GMT -5
Over the years my W will bring up something that she disapproves of and remind me of my inadequacies and failures as a Husband, Father, and generally as a human being. She also has said over the years - "And you will never see your children" as a threat should our marriage end for whatever reason, Yes I know parental rights etc. I am also reminded periodically about how inadequate and a disappointment I am - never openly just very cleverly mentioned - so it subtly gets registered into my subconsciousness. Actually, I am learning from you folks about "EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL" and the "FEAR OBLIGATION GUILT" (FOG) approach. I heard as well about "CONTROL" issues. I heard that "Love" might be how to get into a marriage, but "control" is what getting out of a marriage is all about. Our SM is pathetically hopeless so she controls on other things still relevant. Especially finances and things. If you do not know what "Emotional Blackmail" is or FOG (I did not until yesterday) - Wikipedia actually has a pretty good summary. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_blackmailSo how is the Emotional Blackmail and FOG in your life.
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 1, 2017 9:33:07 GMT -5
Beautiful post. Sublime. If I may ask - normally therapists would think of a long term project and "fixing" the marriage -experimenting with techniques etc. I am just wondering if you had an actual "honest" therapist or it was just so obvious. Was there a "coup de grace" during your session which just made it undeniable? In my opinion the counselor was honest and it was so obvious what an idiot my H was. He even had the nerve to claim I wasn't a good parent, which is absurd. He was desperate grasping at straws and trying anything to keep me from divorcing him. This was my journal and post on EP after the session: I did it! I was successful in my purpose for the marriage counseling session. I did not cry, I was resolute, and at times I felt like I was running the session not the therapist. The therapist based on the questions she asked and the evidence I stated understood how I was done. The meeting started with her asking why we are here. I stated that I told my husband I want a divorce two weeks ago and I still do. Nothing has changed for me and I thought it would be good to get support in working towards that goal. Husband spoke and said that he knows he neglected me for many years. He knows that was wrong, that I asked to go to counseling a few times but he ignored the signs and he doesn't want the marriage to end. Therapist asked if there's any hope with me. I said No that I identify with someone who has been wrongfully imprisoned and I see him as a jailor and brother. Intimacy with him seems incestuous to me. Therapist asked him why he neglected me. He said Sex wasn't important to him. We both went back and forth with a few different anecdotal scenarios. Just more evidence to show how we've grown apart. This part blew my mind and I think my husband was trying to be funny: therapist asked again if I had anything left to rekindle a spark. I answered No I can be his friend, co parent, I just can't play the role of wife. Husbands response: what about my mistress. The therapist said nothing, I can't imagine what was going through her head ( ooh that could be a fun thread what was going through the therapists head when he said that), but I promptly answered to him and I said, "well that still means I need to divorce you." So the therapist summarized that we are at different stages of detachment and that I'm way ahead and this is fresh for him. It will take time to heal for him. Offered for us to come back. I said I would with the purpose of working towards an amicable divorce. Husband said he's not interested. I told him he needs to decide if he wants to sit down with the attorney with me. He said no just handle it, story of my life, so I will go to the attorney next week and he will be served. Thank-you bballgirl Your post really hit home for me. I think my W would be much more mature but in terms of where I am - I could copy paste your poste on my Consciousness and I am there pretty much to the word. It was really almost cathartic reading your poste - like "therapy" TRIPLE WOW - Man I could relate too too much. Respect!
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 1, 2017 9:30:38 GMT -5
I am a bit cynical and "follow the money" - this could just be a test to lure hopeless SM couples into a long term therapy with all the fees. Marriage and sex counselors need to eat too right? McRoomMate Funny you mention this! I've been to my therapist just three times now - all in the past month. Each and every time she insists that I schedule additional appointments for my H and I, together. Each time I insist that I'm not interested in couples counseling as we've been down that road before, and, I know that it's pointless in our situation. Sooooo........ I'm looking for a new therapist - probably a man this time. Kind of frustrating- Thank-you lyn This is shameful behavior on their part. Full respect for your courage and yes I am getting a lot of inspiration from your post.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 31, 2017 18:55:09 GMT -5
I took it twice. Once for how I was feeling and how he was behaving a year ago - when we had The Talk™. That score is 44. Could we have recovered? I don't know. I took it a second time, for how I'm feeling and how he is behaving now - and that score is 36. I am a bit cynical and "follow the money" - this could just be a test to lure hopeless SM couples into a long term therapy with all the fees. Marriage and sex counselors need to eat too right?
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 31, 2017 18:51:32 GMT -5
I got a 24 I'm divorced. I went to one session of counseling and the therapist told my H to get an attorney. Beautiful post. Sublime. If I may ask - normally therapists would think of a long term project and "fixing" the marriage -experimenting with techniques etc. I am just wondering if you had an actual "honest" therapist or it was just so obvious. Was there a "coup de grace" during your session which just made it undeniable?
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 31, 2017 11:06:10 GMT -5
nypost.com/2016/02/11/this-test-will-tell-you-if-youre-headed-for-divorce/Pretty interesting and easy to do Test Instructions: Answer each question as follows: Strongly Agree (5 points) , Agree (4 points), Neutral (3 points), Disagree (2 points), Strongly Disagree (1 point) ✦ I feel emotionally close to my partner. ✦ I think that my partner really cares about me. ✦ I feel confident that we can deal with whatever problems might arise. ✦ I would consider myself happy in this relationship. ✦ My partner really listens to me. ✦ I feel that my partner finds me physically attractive. ✦ I can talk to my partner about anything. ✦ I feel that my partner is very interested in me. ✦ I feel respected by my partner. ✦ I am committed to staying together. ✦ I have a great deal of respect and admiration for my partner. ✦ My partner really tries hard to meet my needs. ✦ My partner respects my dreams in life. ✦ My partner is one of my best friends. ✦ My partner rarely puts me down. ANSWER ANALYSIS: Above 55: You’re emotionally close to your partner, a sign that your relationship is going strong. “Trust is the number one thing that makes a relationship work,” Gottman adds. 45-55: Your relationship may have once been solid, but recently some cracks have begun to show. “[People] who are listening and interested in their partner’s day are more likely to build trust and commitment and be better partners,” says Gottman. 35-44: If you’ve been unable to cope with problems that have plagued your relationship recently, Gottman recommends taking a couple’s seminar to realign your relationship goals and individual needs. Less than 35: It’s time to bring in the pros and seek a couples therapist immediately. “Criticism, defensiveness, contempt and stonewalling are the best predictors of a doomed relationship,” says Gottman. MY RESULTS: I got 32 - funny how it just says "SEEK COUNSELING" - Duh, Spend a fortune and a few more years on "Therapy". As usual the tests leave out - Void of Passion, over a decade of Room Mates with Children, Zero Intimacy, connection, SM etc. etc. etc.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 28, 2017 15:53:00 GMT -5
In Sum: LOVE is the ENERGY and MARRIAGE is the VEHICLE (a high maintenance vehicle that requires an active and fully committed crew of 2 - no more no less)
LOVE= First there is first the mad and passionate "Falling In Love" phase (mandatory in my mind) which as the Count de Valmont said "It is beyond my control" (Dangerous Liaisons) - of course this calms down over time - and morphs into a deep affection for the other person - but deep and strong need on physical/mental/spiritual level for the other person still and over time.
MARRIAGE (or long term commitment - for life ideally to death either formal or informal) - Keys for Success: 1. Mutual Attraction / Intimacy / Caring / Fulfilling most sacred of human needs (sex and intimacy the ultimate barometer / test indicator) 2. Compatibility / Shared Values - both must share some basic values and be compatible 3. Labor of Love - mandatory both are committed to give and sacrifice and commit - a lot of work but a "labor of love" 4. Trust / Admiration / EMPATHY - these are the glue and the bonds that keep it all together and functioning. Based on each spouse behavior towards the relationship and of these start to get weak and it gets replaced with the Toxic destroyers of Suspicion / Contempt/ Resentment etc.
As usual so many very helpful and inspiring posts - I am becoming an "ILIASM" junkie - so many good things to learn and read.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 28, 2017 15:20:19 GMT -5
Marriage is a commitment between two people that establishes rights (financial) and obligations (sexual) because you love them so much, you only want to be with them until death do you part if it works out. Romantic love is about connection and caring. You just absolutely care about this person more than anyone else in the world. You desire this person, you want to kiss, cuddle, and make love to this person very passionately. Quickies are good too. The connection isn't just physical and emotional there should be an openness and a freeness where you can say anything to each other. @bbalgirl Superb. Inspiring. Fully concur.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 28, 2017 13:58:14 GMT -5
I have been sorting my shit out for years - I had alcoholism problem - now sober for many years - I am fairly supportive of my children and my wife for our "Room Mate" relationship.
In desperation I have been "outsourcing" - I see this now as a half measure "coping mechanism" and I am researching almost obessively about how long term romance / love can endure - the key factors (trust, support, altruism, not just tolerance but encouragement, not taking the other for granted, and the ever GOLDEN RULE - you get out of a relationship what you put into it (normally speaking).
I feel I am quite prepared and aware of how to make the next one work - and it will be "work" and effort, literally a "Labor of Love" - so my next Woman must have a big heart and value the "Couple Relationship" and see this as the foundation of our lives as I will. I think I may already have found her actually.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 28, 2017 13:54:28 GMT -5
No my Wife is not "sorting her shit out" because nothing is wrong it is 100% my fault whatever it is - SM, lack of intimacy, you name it I am 100% to blame. I already asked her some questions and she either ignores or laughs at me with a little contempt - it is ONLY me that has issues and entirely on me to fix everything broken between us.
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