|
Post by lakeside4003 on Jan 14, 2017 20:19:14 GMT -5
it's always reaffirming to have therapists (who have heard all of the details from both sides) acknowledge how poisonous a SM can be. It's not about assigning blame (all right, maybe a little bit), but (for me) was a release of tension that came from denial and the 'false equivalencies' arguments that my W kept trying to suggest made her a victim at least as much as I might be. To 'get validation' from 3 different marriage counselors was a great release for me knowing 'I am understood and agreed with' (by a sane person!), even if the spouse never will quite get it.
|
|
|
Post by lakeside4003 on Jan 14, 2017 20:04:26 GMT -5
that first big step is a doozy...and it takes a (sometimes) brave and focused person to take it!
|
|
|
Post by lakeside4003 on Jan 13, 2017 22:42:47 GMT -5
Hippocracy isn't a fair way to consider this (imo)...it IS a smart strategy and not dishonest at all. There are always lots of moving parts in addition to the SM, and good for you if you're better off biding you time. If, however, you're mentally gone and the 'moving parts' are relatively small - then it's just a delaying tactic.
FWIW, since telling my W while in therapists office that I think its time to separate, so much has been easier to deal with. Taking the 'hoping and believing it may change' out of the equation is actually liberating! A main reason for waiting so long was to be there until all 3 kids finished college and have at least a foot out the door. (they all understand that their mom and I haven't been happy for years, and know what's likely to now happen. I do not get into any SM details, just saying 'we've grown apart' which is obvious to them)
also - kudos to this forum and the wonderful, brave people who can share experiences - this more than anything has helped me to stop waffling and make some long overdue decisions.
|
|
|
Post by lakeside4003 on Jan 13, 2017 17:36:49 GMT -5
and I only knew about her childhood traumas after we married, and it never all came out at once, or was ever 'connected' in her mind.
|
|
|
Post by lakeside4003 on Jan 13, 2017 17:33:20 GMT -5
Sunnidays, please do not misunderstand. I still love my wife, always will be there for her - but the steady glide into a SM has taken its toll. 'Duty-sex' 5-10X/yr just won't work for me. I've given my all to my family and want to enjoy the next 25 yrs to the max.
Never a BJ, HJ or anything focused on pleasuring me. Yes, she gets into it if the planets are aligned correctly, easily orgasms (especially w oral), but it's a blue moon if she initiates intimacy with anything resembling playfulness, sensuality, sexy, or full-out-horny.
Its been a steady decline for 20 yrs now, with different periods of 6/8/10mos w zero over the last 6 yrs. I can only recall maybe a dozen times in the last 2-3 years. (she's the one who avoids similar bedtimes 99% of the time, having acknowledged that it's 'her way of controlling her boundaries')
|
|
|
Post by lakeside4003 on Jan 13, 2017 16:49:48 GMT -5
Baz, I'm already there. Told her and our therapist that I want to separate (for now) and she knows divorce is clearly a path I'm already planning on (yes, I did speak with an attorney, house is up for sale, kids all grown).
I certainly wasn't looking to offer any 'excuses' for them, but I am curious as to the refusers' rationale.
|
|
|
Post by lakeside4003 on Jan 13, 2017 16:08:00 GMT -5
So much of what's written and emphasized about on this forum is the sad facts that our spouses avoid, deny, refuse, etc. But Why do they avoid?
Seriously - I'd like to start a thread focused solely on what we think (or know) are the more specific reasons our refusers have in their heads...For me, it's become clear that my wife had some significant sexual abuse issues as a pre-teen (uncle groping/fondling/making her touch his penis, but she wasn't 'allowed' to report this) and also her first actual sexual encounter was a date-rape (complete w Quaaludes, forced oral, etc. when she was a virgin). Also, her Mom had some sort of mental breakdown and was on heavy drugs/in a major fog during her pre-teen years, and her Dad was too busy being a lawyer and dealing w 6 kids, that he only disciplined them. She learned early on not to trust people too much. She shows all of the markers for a case of Sexual Anorexia.
It does help me to empathize somewhat, but then again - we had a pretty decent sex life in college and until our kids, even if some of the signs of mis-matched libidos were there. Even understanding the trauma of her difficult teen years doesn't now make sense of our marriage having deteriorated into minimal sex, with decreased 'participation' from her over the years.
I have been incredibly frustrated (as you all have) and as I've had a sales career with heavy travel, constant pressure of making the quotas, job changes and financial worries for funding 14yrs of college expenses - I soothed myself with lots of guy-stuff - beers, golf trips, watching sports, being a coach to each of the 3 kids for baseball/softball/basketball, little-league commissioner, etc. Also lots of good wine... I have been a 'bad boy' at times (frustration takes a toll) - but I've mostly been a very good man, father, husband and a very good provider - and I'm a decent-looking fellow who's still in good shape and very playful.
So - WHY do you think your refuser refuses? (I realize this may entail opening up a bit more about ourselves and less about complaining about 'them', but I expect we all can benefit from this?
Some possibilities to throw out there:
extremely low libido physical impairment we have become less attractive to them they're possibly gay/lesbian having an affair with someone else they just 'take us for granted' (my pet peeve) trust/avoidance issues from childhood ('if I get sooo close/attached - it will hurt more when he/she leaves') they believe were not attracted to them etc...
I can't help it - when something is illogical to me, or just doesn't make sense or seem fair - I can be a tough person to deal with. Of course, she blames my attitude and annoyance!!
|
|
|
Post by lakeside4003 on Jan 13, 2017 13:20:34 GMT -5
stay strong, especially when you know you're the one trying to resolve a very important dynamic in a more positive way. this group is wonderful for the support and understanding, stay with us through this! also, as bballgirl says, we try to make it less depressing than it is (and we're good at that!)
|
|
|
Post by lakeside4003 on Jan 13, 2017 13:04:41 GMT -5
good for you callisto! blue skies ahead!!
(why do I feel than the refuser men need a harder kick in the ass then the refuser women?)
|
|
|
Post by lakeside4003 on Jan 13, 2017 10:39:27 GMT -5
We've had the talk many times, but only since I suggested during therapy that I thought we should consider separating, did she suggest that I should sleep in the spare room. In a strange way, it's so much more comfortable - not wondering/hoping/fantasizing if she'll decide to wake we up with a naked nuzzle (which of course, never happens). There have also been too many times when I'm so horny that I can't help myself and roll over and try to spoon and cuddle and scratch her back...She either does nothing/zip/nada, or lets me know she only wants to cuddle.
So, for me the 'banishment room' is curiously more comfortable - not dealing with quashed hopes when the proximity of an attractive woman is so close and already in bed.
BTW, our children are all grown 2 already out of the house (one son remains, but he's pretty much aware of our impending separation), so kids and space are not an issue for us.
What do others do about this? what would you prefer?
|
|
|
Post by lakeside4003 on Jan 12, 2017 23:19:12 GMT -5
instead of drinking too much wine - I now get to the gym 3X/wk, read a book every week or so and have a closer bond with both my dog (my avatar) and cat - they seem to understand...
also, this group and forum has been a 'yuge' help in staving off deeper depression!! thanks to all!
|
|
|
Post by lakeside4003 on Jan 12, 2017 22:22:28 GMT -5
I'd love to meet some of my brothers and sisters! if there's 'more than just a few' I'd like to do this.
|
|
|
Post by lakeside4003 on Jan 11, 2017 10:17:09 GMT -5
I recall an article in the NYTimes a year or 2 ago, where couples were challenged to have sex every day for a month straight, to understand the impact and simplicity or difficulty of such a test. (sounds like fun, no?)
The general consensus of the 'guinea pigs' was that the first week or so was fun and enthusiastic, but as the month wore on - it became a struggle to find motivation and make the time. The sex became 'duty sex' and lost lots of the luster quickly. Some couples simply couldn't keep it going for the entire month. all couples were 'happily married with a positive sex life'.
I'm sure the main takeaway here is that it's much more about connecting and being 'in the mood', than just the physical desire or release, but you also have to make the time for it and somewhat plan on it. Spontaneity is a beautiful thing, but planned 'date-nights' and setting expectations also go a long way...
BTW, My W always accuses me of wanting sex every day - and I assure her I couldn't keep up!! I tell her nirvana would be 2-3X/wk and 1-2X/wk would exceed expectations with her. Unfortunately, we still fit the clinical definition of a SM.
|
|
|
Post by lakeside4003 on Jan 10, 2017 13:24:12 GMT -5
just got back from weekly marriage therapy and this specific topic was discussed. Therapist suggested my W come alone next week to discuss if she's open to considering some more specific counseling for her avoidance. She undoubtedly felt boxed into a corner - but it's where she needs to work from.
FWIW, Sexual Anorexia can take different forms and varying levels of intensity of avoidance - my W can enjoy sex (she's a very attractive woman), just never initiates, avoids (entirely) similar bedtimes and is more comfortable blaming my moods (frustration and depression and all that comes with it)for our SM. She also disputes the frequency of any sex - but as we all know, we tend to have a sharp awareness of how infrequently it occurs!
|
|
|
Post by lakeside4003 on Jan 6, 2017 18:55:15 GMT -5
Rhapsodee's thread about being playful got me thinking...is there a consistency among us (the refused) who tend to be more playful? I know it's a big difference between my wife and I. She's just not into being playful, cutesy or anything along those lines. Whether sexy or suggestive, or just plain old playful to have some positive energy, it's just not her style.
I expect there's something here, but would love to see how others respond...
|
|