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Post by RexCorvus on Dec 26, 2016 12:39:20 GMT -5
CHEERS MATE!!!
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Post by RexCorvus on Dec 26, 2016 12:21:24 GMT -5
This was one of my favorite Web stories from EP back in 2009, that was posted by Windy. I searched for it here on the new board but didn't find it, so I am re-posting it here for everyone. True fidelity goes beyond keeping sex within marriage www.reviewjournal.com/steven-kalas/true-fidelity-goes-beyond-keeping-sex-within-marriageAt the heart of marriage is the covenant pledge of fidelity. Now, ask around, and you'll find that, when most folks hear the word "fidelity," they immediately think of conjugal faithfulness. That is, I promise never to have sex with anybody else, ever. (Side note: It's almost always a bad sign if, a few years into a marriage, your mate asks for your definition of what technically constitutes "having sex.") Beyond actual sex, most couples also put the kibosh on kissing, nuzzling, lap dances, skinny-dipping, massaging, showering, dating, nude photography, private porn habits, vacationing, strip poker, lurid banter, breast exams, getting one hotel room to "save money," erotic e-mails/text messages, midnight IMing, MySpace preoccupations and exchanging lingerie for Christmas. Understandable. No argument from me. You want a thriving marriage? I'd avoid the above list of activities, unless your partner in those activities is your mate. In which case I'm a big fan of the list. Except for the private porn habit, because, by definition, a thriving marriage is one wherein you will no longer find it interesting or necessary to cultivate a private sex life. But, how and when did we decide to automatically associate fidelity with sexuality, and that alone? I think the answer is because that definition is, well, easier. It gets us off the hook. Let's make it harder. Let's recover a deeper definition of fidelity. One that will involve ever-so-much more intention, rigor and commitment: Marital fidelity is the promise of "Radical Presence." Every day. For the rest of your life. I promise to be Radically Present. I promise to show up for this relationship, chiefly by promising to show up for my own life. I promise that my "I" will be forever grounded in our "We." I will cultivate habits that nurture our connection. I will be alert to notice habits that presume upon our connection. Take it for granted. While, on any given day, any number of things might rightly and urgently require my energy and attention, I promise not to allow anything to comprehensively subordinate the primacy of Us. Told you I was gonna make it harder. Now you'll never again be able to hide behind the lame "I know I'm a faithful mate and a good husband/wife because I've never had sex with anyone else." Now you have to repent from Vocational Infidelity -- chronically subordinating your marriage to your work. It's not OK to tell your mate, "I'll hook up with you when I retire, baby." That's wrong. That's an infidelity. You might make a lot of money, but you'll likely be spending it alone. Or on divorce attorneys. Give me a nickel for every time I've heard a wife complain about her husband's mistress, whose name is "Work," and you and I will go to Maui and retire. Now you have to repent from Parental Infidelity -- chronically subordinating your marriage to your role as mother or father. It's not OK to tell your mate, "I'll hook up with you when the last kid is 18, sweetie." That's wrong. That's an infidelity. Your kids might get a lot of your attention, but they'll never learn how to honor the primacy of a quality love relationship. And they'll likely have to be making two stops for Thanksgiving and Christmas with the grandkids. Give me a nickel for every time I've heard a husband complain about his wife's paramour, whose name is "The Kids," and you and I will buy Maui and retire. Over-fascination with video games, television and cyberspace chat rooms. Abandoning care for your health and vitality. Hobbies, friends, ice cream and Doritos, boredom, underemployment, unwillingness to seek treatment for depression, poor grooming, poor hygiene, overzealous religion/yoga/fishing/you-name-it, addictions, graduate school, unwillingness to set appropriate boundaries with fused, intrusive "family-of-origin" relationships -- all of these things can be infidelities. Each can tempt you to feel entitled to and then habituate being less than Radically Present to your marriage and your mate. It's wrong to wake up in the middle of a marriage, shrug your shoulders, then passively and unilaterally decide you're no longer interested in sex. That is an egregious infidelity. And it's just plain mean. When you take the wider view, not having sex with anyone else might be the easiest part of marital fidelity. All you gotta do is keep your pants on. Say "no." Deeper fidelity means saying "yes," again every day, to being Radically Present to the life of this man or this woman you said you would love, honor and cherish. A lotta work, you say? Yep. Great relationships are elitist that way. Only for folks who wanna do the work.
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Post by RexCorvus on Dec 22, 2016 13:48:00 GMT -5
This is a very interesting and potentially deep subject. My oldest son is looking at Psychology as his college major. We went for a college visit and spoke to one of the head professors. She said some interesting things in the conversation about how although men and women say it is unfair, there is truth to the women want a provider and men want good looks. These things are subjective and depend on the individual. Whereas a good salary in the Midwest may be $100,000.00, on the east or west coast this may not be viewed as so favorable. www.psychologytoday.com/blog/media-spotlight/201505/what-do-women-really-wantIn this article in Psychology Today, they state that what women want comes down to "Three Gees"—good genes, good providers, and good fathers. But there has been a shift in society and women are more independent now and seek out kindness more than physical attractiveness. IMHO, as it states in the beginning of the article – it is about balance of various qualities such as physical attractiveness, displays of wealth, intelligence, athletic ability, as well as as humor, compassion, empathy, and kindness. You could be a very well built, muscled man and catch the eye of a woman, but if you are mean and have anger issues, you might get laid but you won’t keep a mate. RC
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Post by RexCorvus on Dec 22, 2016 10:51:07 GMT -5
I'll be anxious to hear the response to this. beachguy, you know how much we agree on things, but let me ask this, "do you think at 17 yrs old a person can be that in touch with what they are doing?". At 19, when she started refusing, yes. But I admit I got tired of all the lying, gas lighting and manipulation. So I have a take no prisoners attitude. And you know what? She knew all that since puberty. She knew what she FEELS. beachguy and greatcoastal , Thank you both for your questions and input. Brother beachguy , yes I am talking about Gray-Asexual www.asexuality.org/?q=general.html#ex3Here is a snippet from asexuality.org: Asexuality and sexuality are not necessarily black and white. There is a spectrum of sexuality, with sexual and asexual as the endpoints and a gray area in-between. Many people identify in this gray area under the identity of "gray-asexual," or "gray-a." Examples of gray-asexuality include an individual who does not normally experience sexual attraction but does experience it sometimes; experiences sexual attraction but has a low sex drive; experiences sexual attraction and drive but not strongly enough to want to act on them; and/or can enjoy and desire sex but only under very limited and specific circumstances. Even more, many gray-asexuals still identify as asexual because they may find it easier to explain, especially if the few instances in which they felt sexual attraction were brief and fleeting.
Furthermore, an asexual person can want or choose to engage in sex for several reasons. Some asexual people in relationships might choose or even want to have sex with their partner as a way of showing affection, and they might even enjoy it. Others may want to have sex in order to have children, or to satisfy a curiosity, or for other reasons.
It is also important to keep in mind that sexuality can be fluid. Sexual inclination and identity may, but does not always, change over a period of time. In the end, privately or publicly identifying as asexual or sexual is your choice. No one can force a label on you that you are not sure of or comfortable with yourself.
Of course these 3 paragraphs do not define a person’s sexuality any more than 3 paragraphs about being sexual would define us as individuals. Did my wife at 17 or even 19 understand her sexuality? It is hard to answer for her but I would say no. In fact I still think it baffles her. Does she realize her sexuality is different than the majority, I believe she does. As far as I know, I am the only person she has ever had sex with. I agree, that today she knows what she feels. She also knows it is different… But if she has no desire for sex, how can she understand what WE FEEL. If you didn’t have a sense of taste, you could eat chocolate but still not know what it tasted like and understand why so many people enjoy it. Let me provide an example. One night I asked her, what actor/s does she find sexy? She looked up at me perplexed and paused a very long time thinking about this simple question. She finally looked at me and said. “ I appreciate actors for their different abilities and I like some over others and have my favorites. I think some actors and even actresses are handsome or beautiful, but I don’t think about people as being sexy.” Yes, she tells me I am handsome as well. “ Have I had discussions with her about obligations she took on when she enforced monogamy on you (essentially celibacy) when she agreed to marry you?” Yes, I have. It is very hard for her to talk about. Because she is different, she has had experiences where in those limited times when she has opened up about it, even at her OBGYN, she has been looked at like she is strange or broken. She has told me, that I must have 5 girlfriends, and that she worries that one day I will tell her that what we have in our marriage just isn’t enough. I tried to “fix” it, I worked diligently to understand the “whys”… But in the end the decisions still come down to the same choices. I have my role that I have played as well. I am extremely loyal, have a very strong sense of responsibility, and because of my past I have abandonment issues. I now understand the reasons “why” I have stayed and sacrificed my sexuality for the sake of the family. But I am just now learning that leaving my marriage doesn’t mean I’ve abandoned them and that my happiness is important in my children’s development as well. I don’t have to be a martyr RC
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Post by RexCorvus on Dec 21, 2016 15:57:42 GMT -5
We dated for 4 years. The first 2 it was good, then seriously declined. We were very young. We started dating when she was 17 and I was 21. Amazing how she could for two years at least. I have a similar story as do many others here. Have you done any research on asexual orientations? I found it very worthwhile, especially talking online to others of this orientation. There are differing degrees just as there are with any sexual orientation. For us being desired and wanted sexually turns us on, just as those we desire and want are turned on by our desire for them, if the feeling is mutual. For some asexuals they are able to have sex, especially early in the relationship because they feel the early romanticism which excites them enough to engage in the act of sex, but as that dwindles sex becomes a chore. Over 15 years ago my wife wrote me a very open letter and explained it to me like this: "I do remember how our relationship was in the beginning. I think a lot of it was because it was new and exciting, and I felt so special around you... Because I have no real desire for it, it feels like an obligation or a job that I try to put off as long as possible. I don’t want to feel that way. I want to enjoy being with you... I am sorry about that. I wish I could wave a magic wand and make it better but I can’t." RC
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Post by RexCorvus on Dec 21, 2016 15:34:36 GMT -5
In my wife's case I believe "can't" is appropriate. RexCorvus , how was the sex before the wedding? We dated for 4 years. The first 2 it was good, then seriously declined. We were very young. We started dating when she was 17 and I was 21.
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Post by RexCorvus on Dec 21, 2016 13:26:08 GMT -5
RexCorvus - that is sad to me. I could have done so much more to sincerely communicate - and sometimes I regret "hiding" so much of my feelings. But it is sad to read that you DID do the soul-bearing work to communicate and that is the answer you got. I think: you can drop the "maybe" from her words. And replace the can't with won't. In my wife's case I believe "can't" is appropriate.
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Post by RexCorvus on Dec 21, 2016 13:25:17 GMT -5
RexCorvus - that is sad to me. I could have done so much more to sincerely communicate - and sometimes I regret "hiding" so much of my feelings. But it is sad to read that you DID do the soul-bearing work to communicate and that is the answer you got. I think: you can drop the "maybe" from her words. It is extremely sad @geekgoddess! “A twisted soul the mortar, despair the bricks, to build a temple of sadness.” I know I am NEW to this new ILIASM board, but I was a member of the old EP and wrote many stories starting in 2009 about how I was going fix this issue. I gave my all. I bought books: “The Sex Starved Marriage”, “Men are from Mars, Women from Venus”,etc… I did research on communication skills, I read about The Love Languages, I joined AVEN and spoke to Asexuals and got their insights, I begged her to go to couples therapy with me, to which she said she wasn’t broken, and if I wanted to go to therapy I could go alone… But what kept me holding on was a letter she wrote me from 1999 where she admitted she has no desire whatsoever for sex. She loves holding hands, hugs, peck kisses. She professes to love me dearly. But yes you are correct there is no “maybe”, she just can’t provide me the kind of love I need to be happy. I believe she is asexual. There are different degrees to this and different flavors if you will. It is not Black and White. But in the end, we just aren’t compatible. RC
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Post by RexCorvus on Dec 21, 2016 9:16:16 GMT -5
6 years ago when I was at the I will “fix” it stage of my SM, and tried to be as communicative and open as I possibly could, when a holiday, birthday, or anniversary would come around and she would ask me what I wanted, I sincerely expressed that all I wanted was her. I told her how much I loved her and wanted her. I expressed how beautiful I thought she was and how I wanted so desperately to be intimate with her and build that part of our relationship. I told her that building our intimacy would be the greatest gift she could give me.
I was asking for the one thing she can’t give. Her words ring in my head “Maybe I just can’t give you what you need.”
RC
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Post by RexCorvus on Dec 18, 2016 18:51:01 GMT -5
Welcome back! I recently returned in October. I had left EP ILIASM several years ago because I felt stuck with no hope of every leaving my SM. Now I know I must leave for my own soul. Your introduction is startling, in a hair raising, where the teeth of madness jump, jump dance and sing… kind of way.
We are here to support you at your own pace on this journey!
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Post by RexCorvus on Dec 17, 2016 10:28:00 GMT -5
Thank youvery much thefullmoon , @lwoetin, tamara68 , nancyb , baza , @geekgoddess, thebaffledking , bballgirl , and especially DryCreek !!! I so deeply appreciate the outside perspectives and being called out for my actions. You all are absolutely correct; it was a passive aggressive move on my part and not who I am as a person or representative of my spirit and soul. It was, as called out RUDE and CHILDISH!! I will choose the high ground DryCreek , you understood my intent perfectly. I wanted to show that the marriage isn’t a idyllic situation that she envisions. The Talk you explain is what needs to happen next. Thank you! baza , I know I have to divorce for me, just as an alcholoic has to stop drinking for themselves. I can’t help that I have fallen in love with another woman, nor would I change it! I have been so incredibly blessed to find her. Someone who understands me, who I am able to openly communicate with! I searched out and rejoined this board because I have moved on from trying to “fix” the problem, to I have to leave, because I can’t live like this. I never in my wildest dreams expected to fall in love with someone 1000 miles away. Thank you all!!! The therapy is working here. I will keep coming back! RC
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Post by RexCorvus on Dec 16, 2016 23:53:39 GMT -5
As I have stated in the past, I have been able to stifle my sexuality telling myself it’s not that important or more accurately blaming myself. I stifle it by overloading myself with work and college. It is around every 5 years that I seems to be unable to deal and start to try to “fix” the problem by having The Talk with my wife, obviously to no avail. This only leads to discontent in the home and arguing. Nothing productive comes from it.
Well I say that, but the last Talk we had, my wife was so distraught trying to talk about our sexless marriage that she suggested that we should just separate. I wasn’t ready for that then. This was 6 years ago in 2010. My youngest was just a year and a half old and I wasn’t ready to “give up” on the relationship.
Fast forward to the present… I no longer care to “fix” it. There is nothing to fix, we are just different people who do not belong together. She is, as best as I can ascertain, asexual and I am heterosexual. It isn’t anyone’s fault it just is what it is. But was have soothed our relationship from the fights 6 years ago and we live in her ideal situation of co-parenting, co-habitation, caring for each other’s well being beside sexual. It is not a horrible existence, but it’s not truly living.
I have fallen in love with my Gorgeous Goddess and I need to begin the motions of getting to her. To do so, I must sow some seeds of discontent again. I think about my Gorgeous Goddess all the time and especially laying in my king size bed with the pillowed wall my wife stacks down the middle between us. So last night I became aroused thinking about my Gorgeous Goddess, so I decided I would throw the covers down to my thighs and let my freak flag fly, so to speak. Well, my wife was on her side facing away from me. So I said the Hell with it and took matters into my own hands so to speak. So here I was on my side of the bed thinking wonderfully naughty thoughts about my love, and doing what heterosexual men do when they need to take care of personal business. Well my wife rolled over and saw what I was doing. I think it shocked it. I acted like I didn’t know that she saw and I quickly covered up and pretended to be asleep. I expected to get hit, or yelled at or something along those lines. Instead she got up out of bed and went downstairs and slept on the couch most of the night. How much sleep she got I don’t know. I don’t think it was much. She went down there around midnight and came back at 4am. The sight of me doing that freaked her out so bad she had to go downstairs, out of the room, and sleep on the couch which she hates.
Today she never alluded to the incident. She made a couple of cold comments with attitude over text, but nothing talking about what she saw or how she felt. Then tonight when I got home she was still a little heated I could tell. But then after dinner as I was cleaning up, taking her plate from the table, doing the dishes, her tone changed. She said thank you to me for taking her plate and doing the dishes. Then she said bless you when I sneezed. Her tone was one of sadness and guilt She wishes she had desire for me, but it just isn’t there. She can’t make herself feel something no more than I can stop my need for intimacy. I thought the incident may be the beginning of the sowing of discontent again, but it wasn’t. It only brought sadness, guilt, and ignoring it altogether. I think she has a feeling that I have moved past caring about fixing it. I’ve been buying some country songs that my love has shared with me. I’m not normally a country music listener. My wife saw them and couldn’t believe I was listening to country for one, then asked if I was trying to tell her something with the song titles: Love Done Gone, Somewhere on a Beach, Head over Boots. I said no, but I think she feels me withdrawing and knows something is up.
I feel sad for her, in that she wishes she had those feelings for me, but she just doesn’t. I’ve learned now though that I deserve a relationship that is full of love and intimacy. I have fallen in love with my Gorgeous Goddess and I will find my path to her. I deserve to be happy and to be loved how I need to be loved. I cannot continue to be a martyr because of my compassion for her. I will always care about her, and she will always be a part of my life and the mother of my children, but as she said to me 6 years ago:
She can’t give me what I need.
RC
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Post by RexCorvus on Dec 12, 2016 21:13:41 GMT -5
What I wouldn’t have given or sacrificed to have my wife initiate by lying on top of me on the couch!!! The most seductive initiation from her since we married 21 years ago: “I’m ovulating, do you want to have sex?” Now THAT is sexy!! Yeah, almost as sexy as "finish vacuuming". He could have at least said... "no, no turn around do it doucement. Do it very slowly."
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Post by RexCorvus on Dec 12, 2016 20:43:38 GMT -5
I particularly can relate to the "nor could I ever" ... oh, and the "anything sexual" of course ... I'm sorry you can relate to this shit!! It sucks!! I swear, I would mention sex and he'd literally be like, "Oh, there's a draft coming from the window." Then he'd turn around and shut the window. End of discussion! Oh, and there was the time (before kids) when he was on the couch and I was vacuuming. I stopped and began to initiate by laying on top of him. He told me to finish vacuuming. How's that for intimacy??? What I wouldn’t have given or sacrificed to have my wife initiate by lying on top of me on the couch!!! The most seductive initiation from her since we married 21 years ago: “I’m ovulating, do you want to have sex?”
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Post by RexCorvus on Dec 11, 2016 11:17:15 GMT -5
I was in a 12 step program, AA, from the age of 15 through 18 and realized alcohol and drugs weren’t my problem, “ I” was my problem. But as you said brother baza , there were a lot of lessons learned there that are useful in applying to our SM. Weekends suck for me for a different reason now. Every morning as I’m driving into work, I get to talk to my Gorgeous Goddess, and hear her voice from 1000 miles away. On most days, I usually get to talk to her again around mid day. Sometimes we even get to video call and I get to see her gorgeous face. Over the weekends, we text as often as we can and she sends me selfies so I can see her gorgeous face but, I miss hearing her voice. Like you brother thebaffledking , I distract myself by lifting weights or running which helps. I also have college homework and studying for exams which occupy my time. Each day brings me closer to being with her. We are at the beginning, but our journey to our future together has begun. We can see the meeting place upon the mountain high, we just have to press on and find our path there. RC
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