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Post by sadkat on Nov 21, 2018 8:52:13 GMT -5
I’m sorry you’re going through this. It’s tough letting go of a relationship that you’ve grown used to even though in your heart of hearts you know it isn’t good for you. It’s all part of the grieving process. I know you’ll come out of it a much stronger person. One step at a time- remember to continue to take good care of yourself and surround yourself with people who love you. Hugs to you!
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Post by greatcoastal on Nov 21, 2018 12:38:00 GMT -5
New levels of pain in this deal. So last week I told my h that I want to separate by next year. My older son, who often inadvertently is a buffer in my household, will me going to college. The thought of living with my high needs, crisis younger son and my husband who does not even speak to or help with my son alone is unacceptable. I am encouraging him to seek a year abroad as part of his PhD program and that will require him to start looking now, which is why I had to bring it up. That will allow me to stay in my house for a year but have him gone. He was really upset about it and has since been emotionally detaching himself from me. Now while this is RIGHT and GOOD on his part I was unprepared for how much it would hurt me. I have adapted, as so many of us have, to the crumbs of "intimacy" and connection in my relationship. The daily texts about his day, the way he is excited to connect about something he is reading, the way we can laugh together, the way we connect about politics or some other random information. I realized that for years I have been fed by these things, like a starving woman being given crumbs of real togetherness. With their loss I am feeling panic and pain and deeper loneliness. It is not as if I have forgotten all the reasons I am pushing for the end of this relationship. I do not regret asking him to consider a year abroad. I do not regret this steady march toward divorce. But I did not realize all the ways I have grasped at any small glimpses of partnership and comraderie that have been offered. I did not realize how much those little gestures and moments of the day have meant to me. Of course, I see how sad it is that I have been existing on these crumbs. I still see that. I know that I would rather the CHANCE at a feast (or any solid food!) than the guarantee of these crumbs. I was unprepared, however, for the way my whole being would panic at the thought of not even having those crumbs. This is a complicated web of shit we have woven for ourselves, is it not? I am recognizing the pain that is in store for me when we actually do totally separate. The emptiness of my world as a single mother. He has never been the partner I want or need. But he HAS been the partner I have. And it is scary to let go of the last remnants of partnership that do still exist. And it is intimidating to think about living with this withdrawal for the next 9 months or so. I am assembling my resources- time with friends, hiking, music, therapy, this support group. Tonight I am leaning on wine and masturbation, not the best of coping mechanisms, I know. Good Lord this inbetween time is fucking hard. Fear not dear lady, to the bold and adventurous go the prizes! You have many positives in your corner!. Lets count your blessings on this day of Thanksgiving. 1) You are already the primary caregiver to your youngest. 2) There will be very little separation going on between father and son. 3) You will be keeping your job. 4) You will remain in the same line of work. 5) You have a steady income. 6) You will be staying at the same home (you offer stability) 7) you have a great support network. 8) There really isn't that much left to let go of. That is a POSITIVE! As my psychologist told us " there isn't even a dying ember left in that fire". 9) Grieving is part of HEALING ( a positive) 10) Other men desire you! You will receive the "boost" that you need, as you give to them, on a variety of levels. (no more crumbs) It's very easy to have self doubt after decades of rejection. Contentment, and placidness becomes the norm. it's all part of our defense mechanisms to deal with the conditioning. To accept crumbs . Allow me to share this with you. ..I just came back from the DMV office and took every endorsement test available for my CDL( Commercial Drivers License.) I passed all of them. The last time I took those tests where 30 yrs ago. I studied and prepared. It's one more step in a long process. This morning I reviewed for my exams. I almost threw up. I worried, I stressed, I felt nervous, I get test stress, anxiety. I remember how many tests I have had to take twice in my life. There's the employee at the DMV that doesn't know half what they are doing , and I know more about it than they do. There's all the noise while taking the exam. There's questions with more than one right answer. They are going to take my picture, do I like what I am wearing? Did I bring the right paperwork? I hope I get there early? What if there's a line and I'm late? Please don't give me that same employee that doesn't know what they are doing? It's the day before Thanksgiving, it's going to be really crowded, and loud. Please don't let someone sit 2 ft. from me at the next window and be so loud and distracting while I take my exams. etc... All worries, that end up being mild 'concerns', and are all ,now "THE PAST". ( Today I was helped by the oldest most experienced employee. A blessing!) Something else to share with you. You are used to eating crumbs. You are going to be handed and fed a steak dinner! You're going to have a whole new set of problems. You are going to have to get used to " how do I handle this?" A whole 'new' set of problems. BETTER problems.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Nov 21, 2018 13:14:18 GMT -5
Wow... workingonitIm sorry to hear about what you are going through. It sounds to me like while the sexual intimacy was missing, there was some degree of emotional intimacy in your marriage that you are grieving. Let yourself grieve. Embrace it. Its all part of the journey, even the unpleasant parts. Remember this is a long game. Keep your eye on that. *Hugs*
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Post by GeekGoddess on Nov 22, 2018 9:02:41 GMT -5
Remember our old saw “everything’s great bar the sex” and how, when we get here, we REALLY are truly convinced that although our partner is no longer a good sexual match, we “really ARE true friends” who care about each other. I remember that thinking.
Now vicariously reliving the in-between time through your updates, I can also remember this cold-shoulder stage. This stage made me wonder if we were even friends!? If we were REAL friends, how could he go so neutral-to-cold on me, all at once, like flipping a switch or turning off a faucet?
But it’s true what GC said about “conditioning” - we really were kind of a dog of Pavlov or a reinforcement subject of Skinner. We “learned” to think the way we spoke to each other about politics or the world or how our day was - we learned to think of that as friendship. And news of divorce does bring out the ugly side of people.
After a bit of the “King Baby” temper tantrums (I exaggerate, but it was my feelings about how H acted) and the “like a stranger” distance - I saw it was just a way he was trying so that he could cope. My H hates (still) losing face. He wasn’t going to start getting mushy - least, not front of ME.
I learned to talk world events with others. I stopped initiating conversation with him (akin to learning not to initiate a kiss, a few years before) and think only in terms of responding when called for. Not reacting- I had done that during the dying-marriage phase. Responding is far kinder to myself than reacting.
I hope your adjustment goes well. I hope he finds a year abroad that he’s happy with & that he goes.
This phase of in-between sucks. It does. But it also does end. So there’s that.
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Post by workingonit on Nov 28, 2018 14:00:16 GMT -5
GeekGoddess thank you for really getting it! Yes the big baby analogy is pretty apt!
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Post by workingonit on Nov 28, 2018 15:36:37 GMT -5
Last week, the day before Thanksgiving, my h initiated discussion about separation and divorce. It feels like a big change. A good one. A painful one too.
He started his own therapy. He now has a narrative that he has lots of love to give and if I dont want it he will find someone who does. He also claims that I am nuts for thinking I could find better- he believes all relationships have problems and we are not unique, unusual or extreme.
The big news is that I did not feel angry or want to argue with his assessment. I see he is trying to blame me to make this whole thing more palatable for him. I honestly dont care. I am fine with him blaming me.
He actually said he wants to work with a family counselor to make this as ok as possible for our kids,.which I agreed with. He was angry I wanted him to go abroad as it would take him away from our son. I calmly pointed out that as he lives in the same house and will literally go days without seeing our son or interacting with him it would be preferable for him to be abroad as maybe there would be a suitable explanation for such behavior. If however he wants to forge a relationship with our boy and step up and be a parent then, yes, being around would be preferable.
Ugh. New levels of tension and weirdness. But new levels of clarity as well. And movement. One day at a time!!
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Post by sadkat on Nov 28, 2018 15:41:46 GMT -5
Last week, the day before Thanksgiving, my h initiated discussion about separation and divorce. It feels like a big change. A good one. A painful one too. He started his own therapy. He now has a narrative that he has lots of love to give and if I dont want it he will find someone who does. He also claims that I am nuts for thinking I could find better- he believes all relationships have problems and we are not unique, unusual or extreme. The big news is that I did not feel angry or want to argue with his assessment. I see he is trying to blame me to make this whole thing more palatable for him. I honestly dont care. I am fine with him blaming me. He actually said he wants to work with a family counselor to make this as ok as possible for our kids,.which I agreed with. He was angry I wanted him to go abroad as it would take him away from our son. I calmly pointed out that as he lives in the same house and will literally go days without seeing our son or interacting with him it would be preferable for him to be abroad as maybe there would be a suitable explanation for such behavior. If however he wants to forge a relationship with our boy and step up and be a parent then, yes, being around would be preferable. Ugh. New levels of tension and weirdness. But new levels of clarity as well. And movement. One day at a time!! Looks like you are handling this well workingonit. It is incredibly difficult when your spouse does not agree with separation and divorce. I’m in the same boat. My last discussion with my h did not go as well as I would have liked. As you say, one day at a time!
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Post by choosinghappy on Nov 28, 2018 16:54:57 GMT -5
Wow workingonit. This definitely is a new level. Hard, yes, but something you needed to be able to break through to him and to your next step. Congratulations! I do hope that even in your low moments you don’t believe what he’s saying. You deserve so much better and you WILL get it. You are amazing. And the way you are looking at your situation does indeed seem clear to me. Way to go.
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Post by choosinghappy on Nov 28, 2018 16:59:34 GMT -5
If you need to, look at that list of positives that GC wrote out on page 8. You have so much going for you and you are smart and strong. You are already carrying the heavy load in your “partnership” WHILE also carrying the steaming load your H piles on top. Take it from me: cutting those burdensome pieces from your life and no longer having to deal with his heavy emotions on top of everything else is FREEING.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Nov 28, 2018 17:34:13 GMT -5
Let him believe whatever he needs to do he sets you free. I’m appalled by his acting like ignoring his own offspring because he’s some kind of burden is “ordinary” - your h is a JERK. But there’s no gain in pointing it out, at least to him. Better investing energy in your son, and letting him know that it’s not HIM why his dad is self-absorbed and neglectful of him. I’m glad H got his own therapy going. I think it at least won’t hurt the situation. I’d say time is coming to get you a lawyer retainer working. If his therapist suggests he engage one, he may beat you to the punch otherwise and you could end up a respondent rather than initiator. Just a thought.
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Post by baza on Nov 28, 2018 17:37:16 GMT -5
Like many refusers, he has - by his own hand - progressively behaved himself in to irrelevancy over the years. He's started his own therapy. Good on him. That's a good idea for anyone with issues. Nothing to do with you though. He has an opinion about your marketability post ILIASM. He's entitled to his opinion. Nothing to do with you though. He has an opinion about his own marketability post ILIASM. He's entitled to that too, but again, it's nothing to do with you any more. He apparently has an opinion about what constitutes a decent relationship too. His view has nothing to do with you now either. He is now only as relevant to you and your aspirations as you allow him to be Sister workingonit . You've got your life, and your choices to make. He's got his life, and his choices to make. Do your thing workingonit .... you're good at that.
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Post by workingonit on Nov 28, 2018 18:07:34 GMT -5
If you need to, look at that list of positives that GC wrote out on page 8. You have so much going for you and you are smart and strong. You are already carrying the heavy load in your “partnership” WHILE also carrying the steaming load your H piles on top. Take it from me: cutting those burdensome pieces from your life and no longer having to deal with his heavy emotions on top of everything else is FREEING. (((Hugs))) thank you! You are an inspiration in so many ways!
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Post by greatcoastal on Nov 28, 2018 18:16:54 GMT -5
Stand your ground dear lady! That doesn't mean having to argue and debate all his "word salad" and "gas lighting". Do not be fooled again. Rely on all those past 'false promises' to reinforce your decision to move forward without him.
His idea of "a lot of love to give" is B.S. More conditioning that HIS way only, is THE WAY. That is not a relationship.
Rely on the fact that the past will soon be just that, THE PAST.
All relationships have problems. That's true. There is no PERFECT lover out there for any of us. However there is a level of normalcy, giving, receiving, growing, learning, adapting, communicating, that two adults MUST do together in order to continue a relationship. He continues to deny his fears and inability to do these things. Fears and inability that go way back to his past, that has nothing to do with you.
Stand your ground by detaching yourself from his DARVO (denial and reversal). You did not get angry or argue with his assessment. EXCELLENT! ( Don't be the victim)
Personally, I am skeptical of"his own therapy". That can easily mean months, years ,of him getting away with the same tactics with a bad therapist. Then trying to railroad you into staying since he's 'making an effort'.
Put yourself FIRST for a change! Including having the upperhand with the best attorney and control with the finances. Lean on your attributes- friends and family -during these times.
THE STORM
Put yourself first by talking about it. No one ever signs up for a storm, but they always sign up for the other side! This may be one of the most public storms you have to face. Sometimes there are storms of your own making. Talk about it. Keeping it in the dark has not helped anyone. Keep your eye on the prize. You will arrive on the other side, with a new knowledge from your 'storm' experience. In the near future you will be saying to others " I dealt with that junk too, let me tell you how to get through it".
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Post by h on Nov 28, 2018 21:03:31 GMT -5
I suppose progress is something to be thankful for. He has accepted the inevitable and is planning for a future that doesn't include you. You can always talk to us if you need us. We're here for you.
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Post by ironhamster on Nov 29, 2018 3:56:27 GMT -5
Dittos. You've got this, workingonit. I would argue that you are the one in the relationship with a lot to offer. You are a brilliant, good looking, and caring professional woman. You can maintain a career and a household simultaneously. I am sure there are a lot of traits left to be discovered, but that is a good starting point. I am sure he believes he has a lot to offer. I'm just not sure what. There he is, highly educated and getting more highly educated, but he does not yet seem to know himself or want to connect with the people he is closest with on any terms but his own. Dare I say it, but I think he and my ex might be a match.
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