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Post by workingonit on Nov 29, 2018 19:26:46 GMT -5
Thanks all. You guys are the best. ❤
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Post by workingonit on Dec 13, 2018 19:10:50 GMT -5
I am just an idiot. Last big convo with h was before thanksgiving when he brought up separation and divorce, told me he wanted to focus all our attention on trying to make that ok for the kids and trying to fix his relationship with them. Said he would move out of the bedroom when we could clean out the guest room (this is a big project).
Since then life has been the same with possibly even easier friendship between us. I felt hopeful that we could do this in a friendly way! I have been looking for a good family therpaist to help us do this in a way that will be beneficial for relationships all around in our family. H has been really busy with school. I travelled a bit looking at colleges with my oldest. All relatively neutral but nothing different. Still lonely. Working my way toward an exit. Called a lawyer, etc.
Last night my h tells me he wants to move back into my ("our") bed that he moved out of officially and unilaterally 5 years ago.
WTF?!
So of course I said WTF to him and said I thought we were on the same page??
He said that he only said all of that to "get" to me and he thinks things have been "great" between us since and feels like we should start therapy again to "fix" our issues.
Good God I am an idiot. I really felt like we could move apart in a healthy way. And of course he thinks things were "better" because he HAD the marriage he wants!! Companionship and friendship ARE intimacy to him!! He does not even see how lonely and depressed I have been. EVERYONE else in my life sees it!! I have been mentally wrapping up this time in my life and trying to work on being a family in a NEW way with divorced parents. He has been living in his marital bliss bullshit land again!!
FUCKTHISSHIT
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Post by choosinghappy on Dec 13, 2018 20:43:25 GMT -5
Holy shit you guys are on different planets.
On the bright side: this is undeniable proof that you would never be able to have the kind of marriage you want with him. More reinforcement you are doing the right thing.
Hugs. I wish it was easier for you and he wasn’t so dense.
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Post by sadkat on Dec 13, 2018 20:44:39 GMT -5
So, so sorry workingonit! The manipulation tactics our spouses are using are off the charts! Stay the course and try not to let it upset you too much. Venting here is always a good thing but try your best to keep calm when dealing with h. Easier said than done ( I’m definitely not one to talk as I went off the deep end the last time I had a separation discussion with my h). Stay the course- one day at a time. Hugs to you- just know I can totally relate to what you’re going through.
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Post by ironhamster on Dec 13, 2018 23:38:17 GMT -5
So, he is saying, actually saying, now, that he is perfectly fine with dishonesty as long as it gets him what HE wants.
Oh, look at this on the bright side. You have clarity about your clusterfuck of a soon to be ex-spouse that I will never have about mine.
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Post by baza on Dec 14, 2018 0:07:02 GMT -5
To all intents and purposes you are a partnerless mother Sister workingonit . He would like you to continue in that role indefinitely, and it is difficult - if not impossible - to see him focusing his efforts in any direction other than having the status quo continue. So, if you want to legally formalise the factual position of being a partnerless mother and divorce him, don't expect any help or even co-operation off him. It is not in his best interests help such an agenda in any way.
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Post by choosinghappy on Dec 14, 2018 2:28:42 GMT -5
To all intents and purposes you are a partnerless mother Sister workingonit . He would like you to continue in that role indefinitely, and it is difficult - if not impossible - to see him focusing his efforts in any direction other than having the status quo continue. So, if you want to legally formalise the factual position of being a partnerless mother and divorce him, don't expect any help or even co-operation off him. It is not in his best interests help such an agenda in any way. For what it’s worth: I was basically a partnerless mother as well. And since leaving my marriage things have become EASIER for me because my mind is free from all that emotional baggage caused by my ex. (Not to mention all the physical things I did for him as well like doing his laundry, doing certain things the way he preferred, cooking his favorite meals etc etc.) Life continues to have its difficulties, especially in regards to my son, but things are actually better for me now; I KNOW I’m alone in caring for him now and I have risen to the challenge. It is a load off to no longer have that constant push and pull of feeling like I *should* have a partner in these hard times and then feeling the subsequent sadness, anger, resentment that for all intents and purposes, I actually was alone in it all. Now I know where things stand and life is easier not having those consistently unmet expectations. I don’t miss him. And I certainly don’t miss all the negative energy he brought into my life.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Dec 16, 2018 7:17:58 GMT -5
workingonit - I’m surprised that he was so honest as to admit to you out loud, in person, to your face that he said “whatever” to GET TO YOU. I would have had a field day with an admission like that. Verbal manipulation is not a tactic that people who love each other use! This is not a corporate takeover for fox’ sake! I hope that you told him no to moving into your space. I hope you were able to convey how disrespected him thinking “controlling you is a valid goal” makes you feel. We are not pawns in a fucking chess game. We are not property - and neither are the kids. To stand there unabashedly stating that he will say anything to get his way is a clarity that not all refused have the blessing of. Allow it to harden your resolve and strengthen your dedication to moving forward as the brilliant woman you are. He definitely doesn’t deserve you - even if he ever did at one time, he’s now proven he no longer even thinks of you as a wife/partner. He believes he’s the senior member, managing this little company of which he will deign to appoint you as assistant to him ... fuck that.
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Post by workingonit on Dec 25, 2018 17:59:05 GMT -5
Hi gang! Merry Christmas to all who celebrate! In the time honored tradition of American Jews I had Chinese food and saw a movie with the family today, as I have always done on this day. Now I am home, having a glass of wine and enjoying the warm quiet of home. I have been off the board for a few weeks- mostly because I have been a bit low, maybe a bit depressed, really. It is hard for me to feel like that as I am generally a pretty happy person despite difficulties in my life. I am generally always able to stop and admire something beautiful, be it in nature, music, friends, or just joy of my children. Lately, though, shit has felt heavy and I have been engaged in my worst trait- isolating myself when I most need my friends and supports around me- including all of you!
So. A few weeks ago my h and I had a big convo, which I shared on this thread. At the end of that convo I told him I wanted him to move out of our bedroom. I told him (on Wed) that we should sit down with the kids and talk to them on Sunday, then clean out the guest room (which is full of art and antiques I had spread out in order to take pictures of to sell them) and move him into it. Well, of course, that did not work out. I came home from work on Friday to find him in the midst of moving his bed to the guest room. While I did not mind that he did this I DID mind that he had not talked to the kids nor cleaned out the things that were all over that room. I asked him what his plans were re those things. He literally said he had no idea. Conversation went something like this:
me: "I have no issue with you moving out but we should talk about what you want to say to the kids and we will need to do that NOW so we can talk to them tonight. Did you think of that?" h: "No. I just could not stay there anymore knowing that you think our marriage is over." me: "I know this is hard but we both need to try to put the kids first. They will obviously see you sleeping in the guest room." h: "I do not know what you mean about putting them first." me: "It means that when you get it in your head that you need to make some drastic change you stop yourself and think about how it will impact your children!! How fucking hard is that?!" He looked blankly at me. Then admitted I was right. He did not talk to the kids. He ignored the issue, would not talk to them about it. I spoke to them individually.
During the conversation he proceeded to have a tremendous breakdown. He started crying and freaking out. He literally cried for about 35 minutes while I listened and said neutral things like "I see how hard this is" and "this is a really difficult situation for all of us."
But something HUGE happened in that break down. He started talking about how powerless he felt- "I don't have any money, I do not work, I do not have close friends and the support network you have!!" And he lamented being unable to leave due to money and the fact that "all my books are here!!" In all his lamenting not being able to leave he DID NOT ONCE mention our kids. NOT ONCE! He mentioned the books at least 3 times!!!
In addition, he said (direct quote): "I guess I am just like X, Y , Z (names of famous scholars and Rabbis who have had tremendous career success but failed in the marriage department). I thought I would not have to go that path. My career is about to take off and it is going to be successful. I thought I would have a home to come to at the end of the day, though. I guess I will not." There was NOTHING in there about ME- just the sort of role of wife that I am now refusing to play. Like I had been cast as a supporting actor to his lead role as a philosopher and teacher.
So he is out of the bedroom. He is sad and telling me about it all the time. But he knows that our marriage is a friendship at best in my view. I asked a few more people for lawyer referrals. Moving slowly but moving all the same. Wishing all of you a joyful day!
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Post by sadkat on Dec 25, 2018 18:13:56 GMT -5
I’m sorry you’ve had a rough time, jenm. Thank you for updating us. What you’re trying to do is incredibly difficult. Be kind to yourself and know we are here for you! Progress can be made with baby steps!
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Post by northstarmom on Dec 25, 2018 18:44:06 GMT -5
Working on it said: “But something HUGE happened in that break down. He started talking about how powerless he felt- "I don't have any money, I do not work, I do not have close friends and the support network you have!!" And he lamented being unable to leave due to money and the fact that "all my books are here!!" In all his lamenting not being able to leave he DID NOT ONCE mention our kids. NOT ONCE! He mentioned the books at least 3 times!!!”
Sounds like he didn’t mention you either.
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Post by baza on Dec 25, 2018 19:40:55 GMT -5
He is now reaping the consequences of the choices he's made dating back some years.
Basically, he's managed to progressively behave himself straight into irrelevancy.
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Post by workingonit on Dec 25, 2018 21:27:09 GMT -5
He is now reaping the consequences of the choices he's made dating back some years. Basically, he's managed to progressively behave himself straight into irrelevancy. My 15 year old actually said to me recently "Of course I love him, he is my father. But he is irrelevant in my life."
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Post by ironhamster on Dec 25, 2018 22:16:30 GMT -5
OMG, workingonit. I am so sorry. You have clarity now about what this was all about in his mind. As much as it sucks, at least you know.
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Post by saarinista on Dec 26, 2018 2:10:38 GMT -5
Sigh. Well, on the bright side, maybe you'll at least get that guest room cleaned out. So sorry you're going through this.
The musical beds thing is crazy. I've slept in three different locations in the house since h and I started seriously discussing our various marital issues. No wonder I can't find stuff.
Don't beat yourself up for being depressed. I am. Who wouldn't be in our situations?
I hope your his and can get some self esteem going soon. His negative self image can only hamper the progress of your resolving this situation smoothly. Is therapy a possibility?
Hugs.
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