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Post by choosinghappy on Oct 25, 2018 8:49:55 GMT -5
This behavior sounds SO familiar workingonit . I understand the difficulty of seeing him in so much pain and seemingly unable to break himself out of it and stand on his own two feet. I also struggled with being a support to my H vs putting up a wall. It’s a very fine line. Especially when you still love the person. I know how excruciating this is for you every single day. It’s exhausting. And it’s infuriating! When you NEED help with your child (his child too!) and he is just completely useless and with nothing to say for himself. “I wish I could do a better job.” Such bullshit. I used to think: “if you wish you could then fucking DO IT! Stop leaving me out here all on my own to take on everything PLUS adding to my daily challenges!!” Eventually I had to realize that I was married to a man truly incapable of being what I needed him to be (and indeed, even what he even wanted to be) and had to think of him as someone who had not just issues but a pretty crippling mental problem he was struggling with. It was obviously caused by past traumas (and it sounds like that’s the case with your H too - his avoidance and awkwardness with intimacy sounds remarkably similar to my H who was sexually abused as a child), not caused by anything I did or didn’t do, and I was powerless to try to help him through it. So I stopped trying. I focused my energy on our child and all of his medical issues, on working on myself, and on continuing to detach from my H and communicate with him neutrally, despite whatever “issues” he was having. I wish I could give you advise for how to get through it. I can’t. It’s horrible. And I really really feel for you. The only thing that helped during it all was leaning on my support system. There were times when I literally felt like I was about to drown under the weight of it all and they are the ones who buoyed me - even if just long enough to make it through that day. Self preservation is what you should be focusing on now. That, and your son. It is sad how your H is feeling but he needs to handle that on his own. What’s sadder, IMO, is what he is doing to you. You have a right to do what is best for you and your own mental health. You also have the obligation to your son, which is no small task. Your H has opted out of that obligation. You can opt of out the obligation to try to make things “easier” for him. Sorry for the babble, I can just really feel for what you’re going through right now. I hate to say it but the only way it eased for me was through us separating and him moving out. Huge hugs my dear. Can you share how you communicated with him neutrally?
Yes I appreciate the support system I have here because, like you said, sometimes it's what gets me through a day.
solodriver: -keeping my distance when he was very emotionally distraught (letting him go through the emotions himself instead of talking with me about them -when I couldn’t escape the talking, trying to keep my face caring yet neutral, putting up a wall and reminding myself that this is HIS issue and I don’t have to take it on -responding with things like: “I know it’s hard for you” and “I’m sure that’s really tough” but not offering support or help -suggesting he talk with his therapist or a friend -keeping conversations focused on neutral topics like the house, kid, daily logistics -Not asking many questions about him or his day, ceasing all inquiries into how he’s feeling about something Basically treating him like a roommate. You care about their welfare but you are not responsible for it. You are responsible for holding up your end of an amicable working relationship. (For the time being.)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2018 10:16:03 GMT -5
workingonitIt sounds like you had a good discussion and he is starting to get it. But his inability to turn that realization into action is really inexcusable. Lamely saying that he's wired wrong and still making no indication that he will change? Especially about your son, who will remain his son forever? Sorry, but that is almost worse than remaining clueless. I had a long, painful discussion with my wife last night too, about old and new hurts we both have, but we are both trying to change when we understand how we have hurt the other. Today we are sending loving texts to each other to help get over the pain we both felt during the talk. I'm going to bring up her points to my therapist tonight so I can see how to do a better job with things that I don't realize hurt her. She is being incredible in her insights, and I'm working on how to avoid and fix past mistakes, as is she. So I have zero sympathy for your H. His apology is not an apology, it is a cop out. It is not repentance. It is, again, mere words. That is the only universe he is comfortable in, but he has no right to leave you to be the only spouse living in the real world. And even if you separate, even if he knows 100% that it is over, he has no excuse for his refusal to act instead of talk. Don't let him off the hook.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 25, 2018 10:17:58 GMT -5
He is wired wrong and that’s reason to divorce since his wiring means you are not compatible.
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Post by choosinghappy on Oct 25, 2018 10:54:12 GMT -5
“Don’t let him off the hook.”
I agree with this IF you have the energy and desire to fight/attempt to still try to improve things. Otherwise, don’t let him off the hook in your MIND—use it as fuel to propel yourself to move forward and out of this marriage. As NSM said, keep it in your pocket as reassurance of your incompatibility. It is a much more mentally healing way to live than to continue to try to fit a square peg into a round hole.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2018 11:20:19 GMT -5
“Don’t let him off the hook.” I agree with this IF you have the energy and desire to fight/attempt to still try to improve things. Otherwise, don’t let him off the hook in your MIND—use it as fuel to propel yourself to move forward and out of this marriage. As NSM said, keep it in your pocket as reassurance of your incompatibility. It is a much more mentally healing way to live than to continue to try to fit a square peg into a round hole. I meant not to let him off the hook as a parent. He seems to be setting the stage for abdicating that responsibility forever because of his "wiring." That marriage is over.
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Post by workingonit on Oct 28, 2018 16:16:12 GMT -5
Something has shifted. That last conversation was really a game changer in terms of my h understanding how far gone our marriage really is. Eureka! While we have continued to be pleasant and even sharing in some of our favorite pastimes together- family board games, crossword puzzles, political discussions- it has felt more like friends. He went to hug me the other day and I was reluctant (I don't want to be ambiguous in my message) and he said, "Look, I know we are hopeless. I know where we are headed. But we are here right now. I could really use a hug from you. It is not going to give me any hope. It is really a hopeless hug." We joked about the "hopeless hug", possibility of trademarking it, and then had a really nice hug.
Today I was immersed in some homeschooling stuff for my son. I needed my h to sign something and we talked for a second about my homeschooling plan. I was discussing my desire to get my son to take the GED so the schooling part could be done and we could focus on getting him ready to take responsibility for himself. I then said "But I think it will be many years until he will manage on his own independently. We will both need to put helping him financially into our individual budgets likely for at least a decade." My h paused and then said "That is a depressing statement on many levels but you are right."
I am keeping the notion of separation/divorce front and center. Dare I hope that we can live with that reality in such a way that our friendship can be maintained and we can separate amicably? It feels like a bit of a tight rope to walk but here I am, trying! To be clear- I am not needing his agreement to separate. I am clear about the future and clear about having it be unilateral if need be. But it would be nice if we could hold onto the part that has worked in this mess- our friendship. I want that.
Thanks for the support!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2018 17:57:27 GMT -5
This is really great news, workingonit. Since the marriage has been a decent friendship outside of sex, maybe you two have a shot at being friends until (or after) you separate. I hope H is looking for help and support for his sake and for the sake of the kids. But this is a wonderful and hopeful update! And it is because you were authentic and steadfast. Great job!
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Post by baza on Oct 28, 2018 18:10:33 GMT -5
In the scheme of being in an ILIASM marriage, there's a lot of factors you can not control. In the scenario where the ILIAM marriage is to end, there's still a lot of things you can't control. What you CAN control is how you are going to conduct yourself through the divorce process and beyond. Presumably - after the initial hullabaloo dies down a bit after you drop the bomb - you intend to handle your end of the deal with respect and dignity and equity and goodwill. They are good aims to have. How your spouse chooses to conduct themselves is out of your control. In my jurisdiction, 80% of divorces are negotiated by the spouses outside of the court system under the guidance of their respective lawyers You might infer from that that *usually* most warring couples can negotiate an acceptable resolution - once the initial high drama has passed. So Sister workingonit , your chances are 4 out of 5 that you two can produce an orderly dismantling of your deal. The Mr & Mrs greatcoastal style of a "drawn out acrimonious duke it out in court" type deal is not how it usually goes. Much will depend upon how your spouse intends to conduct himself through the process.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Oct 28, 2018 19:59:03 GMT -5
I’m glad to hear he is checking into reality. I quite like the Hopeless Hug (T) concept. It’s a useful one. Good to know he agrees, too, that helping your son financially is a legit priority and should be equally shared. This IS a good update.
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Post by flounder on Oct 29, 2018 18:05:05 GMT -5
My father and I were estranged up until about 10 years ago. He apologized to me recently and said that it took him along time to realize his responsibility as a father. Hopefully your H is having that lightbulb moment now. It may be too late to be a good husband to you. It’s never too late to try and be a good father.
Kudos to you. I think you are doing a fantastic job navigating through this.
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Post by workingonit on Nov 20, 2018 21:52:00 GMT -5
New levels of pain in this deal.
So last week I told my h that I want to separate by next year. My older son, who often inadvertently is a buffer in my household, will me going to college. The thought of living with my high needs, crisis younger son and my husband who does not even speak to or help with my son alone is unacceptable. I am encouraging him to seek a year abroad as part of his PhD program and that will require him to start looking now, which is why I had to bring it up. That will allow me to stay in my house for a year but have him gone. He was really upset about it and has since been emotionally detaching himself from me.
Now while this is RIGHT and GOOD on his part I was unprepared for how much it would hurt me. I have adapted, as so many of us have, to the crumbs of "intimacy" and connection in my relationship. The daily texts about his day, the way he is excited to connect about something he is reading, the way we can laugh together, the way we connect about politics or some other random information. I realized that for years I have been fed by these things, like a starving woman being given crumbs of real togetherness. With their loss I am feeling panic and pain and deeper loneliness.
It is not as if I have forgotten all the reasons I am pushing for the end of this relationship. I do not regret asking him to consider a year abroad. I do not regret this steady march toward divorce. But I did not realize all the ways I have grasped at any small glimpses of partnership and comraderie that have been offered. I did not realize how much those little gestures and moments of the day have meant to me.
Of course, I see how sad it is that I have been existing on these crumbs. I still see that. I know that I would rather the CHANCE at a feast (or any solid food!) than the guarantee of these crumbs. I was unprepared, however, for the way my whole being would panic at the thought of not even having those crumbs.
This is a complicated web of shit we have woven for ourselves, is it not? I am recognizing the pain that is in store for me when we actually do totally separate. The emptiness of my world as a single mother. He has never been the partner I want or need. But he HAS been the partner I have. And it is scary to let go of the last remnants of partnership that do still exist.
And it is intimidating to think about living with this withdrawal for the next 9 months or so. I am assembling my resources- time with friends, hiking, music, therapy, this support group. Tonight I am leaning on wine and masturbation, not the best of coping mechanisms, I know.
Good Lord this inbetween time is fucking hard.
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Post by h on Nov 20, 2018 21:57:38 GMT -5
Think of it as simply fear of the unknown. Change is scary. You can get through this though. Don't forget that we're all here for you.
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Post by warmways on Nov 21, 2018 0:36:18 GMT -5
I so understand this working on it. I couldn’t have described it as well That is exactly how I have felt and still feel. I’m in the in between and it’s bloody hard. I can tell you that it’s a tiny bit easier every day and some days will surprise you in that you will suddenly notice you don’t feel as bad and empty and sad and lonely. I was t prepared either for this stage but time is on your side as Bazz has said. The more hours and days and weeks that pass the slightly better you will feel.
What helped me is to be kind and gentle towards myself and treat myself really really well. Whatever it takes to keep you going.
Good luck…and hugs.
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Post by baza on Nov 21, 2018 0:51:30 GMT -5
It is possible Sister workingonit , that if you can Zipcode him for a year, that you might process a heap of the grief and the letting go whilst - nominally - still being married during this period. That's pretty much what happened with me. Most of my grieving etc was done whilst the marriage was winding its' way to its' conclusion, and once the conclusion happened I was pretty much "over it", or at least "over the worst of it". I'd imagine that a years worth of zipcode therapy would be very valuable in transitioning from "having all the responsibilities but none of the benifits of being a single mother" to "autonomous single mother". But, we all grieve in our own way and at our own pace and I am certain that your method and pace will be right for workingonit - and that's the only person it has to be right for.
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Post by solodriver on Nov 21, 2018 2:09:48 GMT -5
New levels of pain in this deal. So last week I told my h that I want to separate by next year. My older son, who often inadvertently is a buffer in my household, will me going to college. The thought of living with my high needs, crisis younger son and my husband who does not even speak to or help with my son alone is unacceptable. I am encouraging him to seek a year abroad as part of his PhD program and that will require him to start looking now, which is why I had to bring it up. That will allow me to stay in my house for a year but have him gone. He was really upset about it and has since been emotionally detaching himself from me. Now while this is RIGHT and GOOD on his part I was unprepared for how much it would hurt me. I have adapted, as so many of us have, to the crumbs of "intimacy" and connection in my relationship. The daily texts about his day, the way he is excited to connect about something he is reading, the way we can laugh together, the way we connect about politics or some other random information. I realized that for years I have been fed by these things, like a starving woman being given crumbs of real togetherness. With their loss I am feeling panic and pain and deeper loneliness. It is not as if I have forgotten all the reasons I am pushing for the end of this relationship. I do not regret asking him to consider a year abroad. I do not regret this steady march toward divorce. But I did not realize all the ways I have grasped at any small glimpses of partnership and comraderie that have been offered. I did not realize how much those little gestures and moments of the day have meant to me. Of course, I see how sad it is that I have been existing on these crumbs. I still see that. I know that I would rather the CHANCE at a feast (or any solid food!) than the guarantee of these crumbs. I was unprepared, however, for the way my whole being would panic at the thought of not even having those crumbs. This is a complicated web of shit we have woven for ourselves, is it not? I am recognizing the pain that is in store for me when we actually do totally separate. The emptiness of my world as a single mother. He has never been the partner I want or need. But he HAS been the partner I have. And it is scary to let go of the last remnants of partnership that do still exist. And it is intimidating to think about living with this withdrawal for the next 9 months or so. I am assembling my resources- time with friends, hiking, music, therapy, this support group. Tonight I am leaning on wine and masturbation, not the best of coping mechanisms, I know. Good Lord this inbetween time is fucking hard. ((((((Hugs))))))
What I'm struggling with is the fact that I still have about 6-7 months before I can execute my exit plan. Of course I'm gone about 10 hours a day for work and commuting. But then I'm home with her and sometimes as much as I try to be emotionally distant, something will happen that causes me to have to interact with her and most of the time it's because of a major problem that requires me to become involved. And because we don't agree on ANYTHING anymore, it becomes a loud discussion and/or argument. And then I'm angry that I got sucked into it with her and angry at myself for allowing it to happen.
And then the worse - the weekends. She does work a lot of the time on weekends so that helps me to relax and not think about it but to focus on myself. But then she comes home and that's where the real test for me is at. I made a list of things that choosinghappy shared that I put on a file on my iPhone to try and help me focus on distancing myself emotionally and focusing on myself and my needs and I look at them almost hourly to remind myself of what I need to do to "survive" being around her. Let me share those with you in the hopes it might be helpful for you as well. To keep it together over weekends, I try like hell to minimize the amount of time we spend together in order to myself less of a chance to say something I'll regret If I can't go out and do something (alone), then I will find some home project to tackle to give myself something to focus on . I keep reminding myself that there is no "us" anymore. I need to work on "Me" and do things that will benefit and care and heal "Me"
Do things that will improve myself and make my life more enjoyable and improve my mental health and my hope for the future such as meditating on positive affirmations I receive from others and from this group of wonderful friends I have made on here and use them to wash away any negative, rejecting and hurtful things that my refuser may have said during the week. I read them and repeat them to myself until I feel the power of those positives in my heart. I usually do this for the first 30 minutes of my Saturday mornings when my refuser is at work and I can focus on them.
I do volunteer work at least once a month to get me out of the house and focus on the needs of someone else.
I do yard work that gives me something to focus on and I can see the results of what I've done and give me a sense of positive accomplishment.
I take 30 minute "fast walks" to help burn off stress and to help rebuild stamina for future sexual relationships.
I continue to work on building a support network to rebuild my self-worth and give me confidence in many areas that have been destroyed from 20 years of rejection.
I masturbate with positive images of what I want and desire with a woman someday.
I hope some of this can be of help for you. None of this is easy but doing these things may help you to get through this "in-between time". I hope to be able to add to this list as time goes on.
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