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Post by workingonit on Sept 27, 2018 9:17:15 GMT -5
So I have been in a bit of a tense and awkward marital time these days.
In summary: I have clarity that this cannot be fixed. I would like to keep it peaceful and amicable. Due to intense and acute situation with children separating is not a good idea at this time. We need at least 1 year.
H wants to keep working on relationship and fix it. He is very scared of divorce and wanta the marriage to work. He knows how I feel. VERY clear and honest communication has happened.
However since we are not actually separating yet he is using this as an opportunity to work on things. I am encouraging of his personal work- I love him enough that I want him to be able to grow and recover from his crippling issues around intimacy. And if I am suddenly miraculously interested in him again I am not OPPOSED to my marriage working. I just do not at all believe that will or can happen.
What this leads to is us having many awkward moments where he will try to be affectionate mildly (not sexual- see previous statement about crippling issues around intimacy) and it is awkward and uncomfortable. I am not initiating or encouraging this affection as it feels dishonest since I do not want him sexually and feel our marriage is over. When I tell him his awkward arm around me feels strange and he agrees it feels awkward. He believes we need to face how awkward it is in order to move past it, i.e. fix it.
So..... I want to just officially live as roomates and coparents. That part of our relationship remains natural. It is the part we never lost. We joke and laugh, we spend time with the kids together, we talk about interesting anecdotes from our day or from his studies. That is all fine.
How do I keep the fine stuff while still moving toward an exit? How do I continue to live with him while we want such different things? Is it right to shut down all affection when there is a tiny sliver of "what if?" in the world? (Tiny) Should I attempt to make affection less awkward (I could- I have been smoothing out his awkwardness for 18 years and am quite good at it) or is that leading him on?
Basically how do you still live together while believing divorce is inevitable? Avoid? Engage?
Also have any of you faced a SO that fights you on separation/divorce, insisting they can fix the problem?
I know lots of you had to do this so any advice is appreciated.
And no, I have not seen a lawyer but it is on the to do list. Life is a little crazy right now.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Sept 27, 2018 10:45:26 GMT -5
I can fully relate to your statements highlighted below. I feel that I am in a similar situation with perhaps a longer runway on the divorce. I dont have much to offer except the following He is not on the same page as you. So I think the priority needs to be for you to continue to communicate explicity where you are at. The challenge is two fold. Typically by this point, communication is a huge hurdle (or I might just be projecting my situation). So that part might need to be addressed first. Secondly, from what you describe, it seems he does not "hear" you or is in denial about the situation. Best case is he will need time to "get it". Worst case is he doesnt get it and continues floating down denial (tired, terrible pun fully intended). Only time will tell how much patience you have. The thing about the work he is doing for himself is that he may not be truly doing it for himself but just to get his marriage back. It begs the question, is this a genuine and lasting change? Some food for thought I hope. Let us know how things develop. I have clarity that this cannot be fixed. I would like to keep it peaceful and amicable. Due to intense and acute situation with children separating is not a good idea at this time. We need at least 1 year. H
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2018 10:46:41 GMT -5
"Is it right to shut down all affection when there is a tiny sliver of 'what if?' in the world? (Tiny)"
I think so. If a miracle occurs - and I believe in miracles! - it will happen independently of your trying to help him. In fact, your helping him probably is part of the problem.
If the tiny chance of change happens, it will be because he has made a huge breakthrough. He needs to do that on his own. And if it happens, you'll know what you have to do at the time.
Shut it down and remain wonderful friends. You'll still be better off than most people in SMs here.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Sept 27, 2018 11:04:49 GMT -5
This right here is fantastic advice. How many of us here aim to see that breakthrough from our spouse. For some it will never come. "If the tiny chance of change happens, it will be because he has made a huge breakthrough. He needs to do that on his own. And if it happens, you'll know what you have to do at the time.
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Post by workingonit on Sept 27, 2018 11:07:39 GMT -5
@daddeo he is willfully putting his head in the sand. He tells me he truly believes the best thing for BOTH of us is to fix our marriage. He knows what I believe and can articulate it clearly. He just believes differently.
Tough spot for me
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Post by workingonit on Sept 27, 2018 11:08:30 GMT -5
"Is it right to shut down all affection when there is a tiny sliver of 'what if?' in the world? (Tiny)" I think so. If a miracle occurs - and I believe in miracles! - it will happen independently of your trying to help him. In fact, your helping him probably is part of the problem. If the tiny chance of change happens, it will be because he has made a huge breakthrough. He needs to do that on his own. And if it happens, you'll know what you have to do at the time. Shut it down and remain wonderful friends. You'll still be better off than most people in SMs here. Thank you my friend. This is my instinct as well.
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Post by greatcoastal on Sept 27, 2018 13:03:05 GMT -5
@daddeo he is willfully putting his head in the sand. He tells me he truly believes the best thing for BOTH of us is to fix our marriage. He knows what I believe and can articulate it clearly. He just believes differently. Tough spot for me It is a "tough spot for you" but in time (maybe a short time) you will see it as a good thing. How? See it as more affirmation that he refuses his responsibilities, and that you are making the right decision. Fortunately for me ,my ex had already detached herself. The avoidance had been going on for years. It made it easier as the FOG lifted for me and I could see her true colors to avoid her even more. You know the advice that is often given here, " get a hobby, join a team, start exercizing, meet new friends, travel, take the kids and go places, leave the house more,etc..." that may be what you will have to do more of in the next year. It also sounds like you put up boundaries. He ignores them and wants you to cave to them. When your spouse overrides your boundaries there needs to be consequences. Something you haven't done throughout your entire marriage? (me either) I loved the book "Boundaries in Marriage" I highlighted 80% of it. I think it would hit a homerun for you, now and for your future endeavors.
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Post by javba on Sept 27, 2018 13:13:07 GMT -5
@ OP - Hope was the last evil that came out of Pandora's box. That's where he is - and NOT moving on.
It's not your lack of clarity - it's his. Things unlikely to move on until you move on.
Similar issue here - so I empathize with you.
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Post by Handy on Sept 27, 2018 14:21:06 GMT -5
workingonit, does your H know what you want to happen in the marriage? To mecomplaints point to a problem but different people solve a problem in different ways. The relity is your H needs to solve a problem/s in a way where the outcome is something you approve. so on your end, you need to say that you want abc nn times a week or month.
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Post by baza on Sept 27, 2018 17:51:43 GMT -5
What your husband wants / wishes / prefers actually passed in to irrelevancy quite some time back Sister workingonit . This actually has piss all to do with him any more, he no longer has a meaningful role to play in the situation, apart from being an obstruction to you moving forward. This is now all about YOU and what is in your longer term best interests. That, of course is an onerous responsibility on you, and there's nowhere to run, nowhere to hide from it. I think that once you see a lawyer in your jurisdiction and establish how a divorce will shake out for you, all sorts of matters (including the best way of managing your marriage as it peters out) will all become clearer. So that's my suggestion - see a lawyer, get the facts. See, if you get that advice, then in respect for your "survival whilst this all plays out" you'll know roughly "how long" you have to survive. Your tactics for surviving for say another 3 months would be different than if you had to survive for another 3 years.
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Post by greatcoastal on Sept 27, 2018 21:23:19 GMT -5
However since we are not actually separating yet he is using this as an opportunity to work on things. I am encouraging of his personal work- I love him enough that I want him to be able to grow and recover from his crippling issues around intimacy. What this leads to is us having many awkward moments where he will try to be affectionate mildly (not sexual- see previous statement about crippling issues around intimacy) and it is awkward and uncomfortable. I am not initiating or encouraging this affection as it feels dishonest since I do not want him sexually and feel our marriage is over. When I tell him his awkward arm around me feels strange and he agrees it feels awkward. He believes we need to face how awkward it is in order to move past it, i.e. fix it. Should I attempt to make affection less awkward (I could- I have been smoothing out his awkwardness for 18 years and am quite good at it) or is that leading him on? Care to elaborate a bit more? So I could have a better understanding? I remember you would give him a blowjob and receiving nothing in return? You accepted that for too long, had false hope, and shoved it under the rug as part of your "wifely duty". On top of that is you having far to much of all the household, wife,mother, duties. (been there) So what is he doing? Instead of throwing you an occasional crumb, he's now giving you two crumbs? And he thinks that's enough? If that's the case you are now seeing his "fix" as no where near what it will take to regain your trust, and he then has to sustain it. Is this what's happening?
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Post by choosinghappy on Sept 27, 2018 22:00:22 GMT -5
baza had the same thought I did: it doesn’t really matter what he wants at this point, Jen. No, I do not think you should attempt to make the affection less awkward because you don’t want it! “I do not want him sexually and feel our marriage is over.” That’s a pretty telling statement. You’ve been able to be clear and forthright in communicating with him. I say just continue to do that. You want to be amicable roommates and coparents. Continue to treat him in those ways. Something to think about: when you read about @shynjdude ‘s turnaround with his wife— do you wish for that with your h? Or do you, like me, think: “wow, good for them” without even a thought of jealousy or wishing that could be you and your h? If you have the same reaction I do I would say that your marriage is over and you should continue to operate along that line of thinking.
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Post by workingonit on Sept 27, 2018 22:09:59 GMT -5
Yes choosinghappy I am like you in my reaction to @shynjdude 's current turn around. I do not want that with my h. I am sad about not having the friendship we have now in the future but I am genuinely excited as well. I can really no longer picture or desire sex with him at all. I think you are correct. It is just the forced moment with him "trying" that is hard to manage. I think baza is right. I think concrete steps forward will help me have a clearer picture of how to manage this limbo state.
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Post by workingonit on Sept 27, 2018 22:18:45 GMT -5
greatcoastal hmmmm... how to explain? So we have separate beds in the same room. Lately he has been getting into my bed to say goodnight (maybe once a week). He awkwardly lays next to me, not touching me, and asks me how my day was or something else. Then he will quietly lay there in awkward silence. Then kiss my forehead and get out of bed. If I cuddled him or reached for his hand he would be happy and follow my lead. I am not doing that. I could- it would not lead to sex but would ease the tension. But I am not. That is an example. So for a guy crippled by fear of intimacy who has avoided almost all touch with his wife for years this is "trying." This is effort for him. I am not helping and he is frustrated by that. In the non-intimate parts of our relationship he is out going and funny and communicative. Any touch becomes awkward. Does that help paint the picture?
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Post by ironhamster on Sept 27, 2018 22:34:44 GMT -5
About November of last year, my wife tried a luke-warm attempt at initiating sex. I was of the mindset that I was not going to deny her, but would never initiate again. We were not very far along when it became clear to me that she was not into it. I could not take any more. I rolled off her, and told her she'd had twenty-four years to have a sexual relationship with me, and it was over.
About a week later, we had a dinner date. I tried to explain to her that I was done wanting sex from her, and I just wanted to concentrate on what we did best, which was raising the kids.
At the time I was also on the three year plan. My wife never attempted again, and within a month, I told her I was getting outside the marriage what I could not get in it, and that ended it. I think I can picture how uncomfortable I would feel if she had started trying. I don't think I could have gone along with it.
I'm not by any means telling you to follow my path. I'm just saying, choosing to be clear that the relationship has become platonic is a valid option, especially if neither of you are getting anything out of it.
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