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Post by shamwow on Oct 23, 2018 22:50:23 GMT -5
I’m dealing with a similar situation. No weeping or telling me I’m the only one he will ever love. But I am being treated like a princess. If only he’d treated me that way sooner! I can’t trust that he will be able to sustain it for long and I hate that I had to accept that my marriage was over before he started treating me well. Still no effort to initiate sex. So, I’m sticking to my plans and will continue to calmly inform him that our marriage is over. I started distancing myself and am planning activities with friends. My work travel has helped immensely these last few weeks. Taking it day by day for now. Expect him to sustain it for as long as he thinks he has to. And keep an eye on the bank accounts.
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Post by thebaffledking on Oct 24, 2018 5:33:36 GMT -5
I tried everything under the sun to survive.........for YEARS......in the end, I almost caved to the CO2 plan......after that wake-up moment, I knew that the only way to survive it was to LEAVE it. I suspect the vast majority of men and women in hopeless SMs reach the same conclusion...and then some leave and some stay anyway....and that's not living. That's not why you were born and bred and raised to be a man or a woman of quality and character. And in the end it's not all about sex at all; it's about being treated like a HUMAN BEING. Every day of my 'survival' attempts, perhaps ironically, led me closer and closer to self-destruction......so.......yeah. Leave. Don't survive the SM, survive the leaving process and get yourself free. My two cents and two cents only, for those ready to hear it.
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Post by choosinghappy on Oct 24, 2018 7:06:31 GMT -5
Ok. Updating. I really do not know what to do. Not in a big sense- that I know: see a lawyer, get divorced. But I AM stuck for the next 10 or so long months. How do I manage day to day? My h is horribly sad. He is deseperate to hold on to our marriage. He says amazingly loving things about how I am his best friend and how much he loves and needs me. He grabs me and hugs me hard and tells me that no one will ever love me as much as he does. But he will not even really TALK about sex and recently told me I have not made it safe to do so. He also will not parent our problem child and will not respond to my anger. Literally no response other than to say he wished he could do a better job. I get more angry daily and feel unable to even look at him due to his ignoring our child. This morning I was getting ready for work and my h was loudly weeping in the shower. Am I so cruel that I hear him practically screaming while crying in sobs and I think he is being manipulative? He was abnormally loud. I heard him in the kitchen. I left for work without seeing him or speaking to him. I hope my teenage boys did not hear him. I just am not sure how to deal with him. I having my own issues and I have long developed an active support network amd therapy to help me. I HAD to do this because I was ALONE for years in my marriage. I think it is telling that he feels "so far" from me now. I have felt far from him for so many years. He has had the marriage he wants for all that time. Advice? (Not divorce advice- I know that! Day to day managing thoughts please) Do I ignore him? Comfort him as a friend? Put more distance between us? This behavior sounds SO familiar workingonit. I understand the difficulty of seeing him in so much pain and seemingly unable to break himself out of it and stand on his own two feet. I also struggled with being a support to my H vs putting up a wall. It’s a very fine line. Especially when you still love the person. I know how excruciating this is for you every single day. It’s exhausting. And it’s infuriating! When you NEED help with your child (his child too!) and he is just completely useless and with nothing to say for himself. “I wish I could do a better job.” Such bullshit. I used to think: “if you wish you could then fucking DO IT! Stop leaving me out here all on my own to take on everything PLUS adding to my daily challenges!!” Eventually I had to realize that I was married to a man truly incapable of being what I needed him to be (and indeed, even what he even wanted to be) and had to think of him as someone who had not just issues but a pretty crippling mental problem he was struggling with. It was obviously caused by past traumas (and it sounds like that’s the case with your H too - his avoidance and awkwardness with intimacy sounds remarkably similar to my H who was sexually abused as a child), not caused by anything I did or didn’t do, and I was powerless to try to help him through it. So I stopped trying. I focused my energy on our child and all of his medical issues, on working on myself, and on continuing to detach from my H and communicate with him neutrally, despite whatever “issues” he was having. I wish I could give you advise for how to get through it. I can’t. It’s horrible. And I really really feel for you. The only thing that helped during it all was leaning on my support system. There were times when I literally felt like I was about to drown under the weight of it all and they are the ones who buoyed me - even if just long enough to make it through that day. Self preservation is what you should be focusing on now. That, and your son. It is sad how your H is feeling but he needs to handle that on his own. What’s sadder, IMO, is what he is doing to you. You have a right to do what is best for you and your own mental health. You also have the obligation to your son, which is no small task. Your H has opted out of that obligation. You can opt of out the obligation to try to make things “easier” for him. Sorry for the babble, I can just really feel for what you’re going through right now. I hate to say it but the only way it eased for me was through us separating and him moving out. Huge hugs my dear.
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Post by choosinghappy on Oct 24, 2018 7:43:32 GMT -5
I also need to mention that I think the clinging to you and your marriage may not even be so much about YOU as it is about him feeling some control in his life, clinging to his sense of normal when he’s feeling so desperate and out of control. It’s likely he doesn’t even realize that may be his motivation. My H did that too. Eventually he realized it (I) was a lost cause and a couple months before we separated he stopped that behavior and seemed to detach from me as well. It was a relief. I’ll hope for that for you, sooner rather than later. Perhaps you continuing to remain detached and clear about you being done with the marriage and uninterested in working on it will help move him towards that direction as quickly as possible.
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 24, 2018 8:12:09 GMT -5
I have answers for you in the form of questions. How long will the divorce take? Does anyone really know how long the divorce takes,until the process starts? and you then see how your spouse handles the divorce? If the divorce does take a long time, do you want to be regretting that you didn't start sooner? Men do not have support networks like woman do. ( men are taught to not express their emotions) That's not your fault. You are his support network ( and his career) Would you filing for divorce help him to redirect his thinking? About your children and the future? You could be helping him by doing that? Maybe you can help him (and you) by redirecting his grieving? You would be redirecting his motives.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Oct 24, 2018 9:14:39 GMT -5
Some thoughts: You don’t need another child. He is a grown man. He is reaping the harvest from the years of energy he did or didn’t invest in this marriage he now claims to value so much.
He needs a therapist - you cannot be it. You have your own shit and that’s plenty- especially considering you’re shouldering all of the duties (& the joys) for your special needs child.
If he cannot sort his own shit well enough to be of help to your son, or perhaps kind/polite to him at minimum, then the LAST thing I would want to do is comfort the H. Damn him to King-Baby Hell ... it’s too late to use tantrums to manipulate; he’s a grown ass man!
I’m glad as hell you have worked on your own support. I would want to point out daily WHY that is. It’s not just from being female. It’s because you had no partner fulfilling the partner role.
If he cannot be adult enough to help co-parent - now, when the fabric isn’t even unwoven quite yet - what sort of relationship with his kids can he expect in the future?
I don’t know if these thoughts will help you maintain mental & emotional distance during times of his distress. But focus on your kids’ needs. Every time H tries to be the center of attention (& “need”) is another illustration of why he is not a great husband & that it’s still debatable what kind of father-figure he can become.
And yes, of course, vote with your feet as soon as you can. I like Baza’s suggestion to maintain as much physical distance as possible- for me, that really helped reinforce the mental & emotional distance.
This part does suck. Don’t cave to his childishness.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Oct 24, 2018 9:18:09 GMT -5
workingonit Keep moving in the direction you are moving. I know its hard, but YOU are worth it. His attempts will eventually stop when he realizes there is no benefit from it. If you show him concern it will only embolden him. To paraphrase you in another post, concern yourself with your side of the street, let him worry about his side. It is true that these statement come across like platitudes, but know that they are coming from people who have been there or are in a similar place as you.
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Post by sadkat on Oct 24, 2018 15:52:41 GMT -5
shamwow- yes, I unfortunately have come to realize that this is a long term process. I hate that! I suspect I will have to eventually leave before he finally accepts our marriage is over. I’m waiting for the Spring when the housing market is stronger to make my move. I’d like to offload the house as soon as possible. As for bank accounts- I’m fortunate that we’ve always had separate accounts and he has no access to mine. I will be vigilant as there’s always a chance that he can guess my passwords! Thanks for the advice!
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Post by javba on Oct 24, 2018 15:55:13 GMT -5
shamwow- yes, I unfortunately have come to realize that this is a long term process. I hate that! I suspect I will have to eventually leave before he finally accepts our marriage is over. I’m waiting for the Spring when the housing market is stronger to make my move. I’d like to offload the house as soon as possible. As for bank accounts- I’m fortunate that we’ve always had separate accounts and he has no access to mine. I will be vigilant as there’s always a chance that he can guess my passwords! Thanks for the advice! change your passwords, also you should secure the accounts with two-factor authentication which means that they would need to send a text to your cell phone for you to get into that account
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Post by solodriver on Oct 25, 2018 0:20:06 GMT -5
Ok. Updating. I really do not know what to do. Not in a big sense- that I know: see a lawyer, get divorced. But I AM stuck for the next 10 or so long months. How do I manage day to day? My h is horribly sad. He is deseperate to hold on to our marriage. He says amazingly loving things about how I am his best friend and how much he loves and needs me. He grabs me and hugs me hard and tells me that no one will ever love me as much as he does. But he will not even really TALK about sex and recently told me I have not made it safe to do so. He also will not parent our problem child and will not respond to my anger. Literally no response other than to say he wished he could do a better job. I get more angry daily and feel unable to even look at him due to his ignoring our child. This morning I was getting ready for work and my h was loudly weeping in the shower. Am I so cruel that I hear him practically screaming while crying in sobs and I think he is being manipulative? He was abnormally loud. I heard him in the kitchen. I left for work without seeing him or speaking to him. I hope my teenage boys did not hear him. I just am not sure how to deal with him. I having my own issues and I have long developed an active support network amd therapy to help me. I HAD to do this because I was ALONE for years in my marriage. I think it is telling that he feels "so far" from me now. I have felt far from him for so many years. He has had the marriage he wants for all that time. Advice? (Not divorce advice- I know that! Day to day managing thoughts please) Do I ignore him? Comfort him as a friend? Put more distance between us? This behavior sounds SO familiar workingonit . I understand the difficulty of seeing him in so much pain and seemingly unable to break himself out of it and stand on his own two feet. I also struggled with being a support to my H vs putting up a wall. It’s a very fine line. Especially when you still love the person. I know how excruciating this is for you every single day. It’s exhausting. And it’s infuriating! When you NEED help with your child (his child too!) and he is just completely useless and with nothing to say for himself. “I wish I could do a better job.” Such bullshit. I used to think: “if you wish you could then fucking DO IT! Stop leaving me out here all on my own to take on everything PLUS adding to my daily challenges!!” Eventually I had to realize that I was married to a man truly incapable of being what I needed him to be (and indeed, even what he even wanted to be) and had to think of him as someone who had not just issues but a pretty crippling mental problem he was struggling with. It was obviously caused by past traumas (and it sounds like that’s the case with your H too - his avoidance and awkwardness with intimacy sounds remarkably similar to my H who was sexually abused as a child), not caused by anything I did or didn’t do, and I was powerless to try to help him through it. So I stopped trying. I focused my energy on our child and all of his medical issues, on working on myself, and on continuing to detach from my H and communicate with him neutrally, despite whatever “issues” he was having. I wish I could give you advise for how to get through it. I can’t. It’s horrible. And I really really feel for you. The only thing that helped during it all was leaning on my support system. There were times when I literally felt like I was about to drown under the weight of it all and they are the ones who buoyed me - even if just long enough to make it through that day. Self preservation is what you should be focusing on now. That, and your son. It is sad how your H is feeling but he needs to handle that on his own. What’s sadder, IMO, is what he is doing to you. You have a right to do what is best for you and your own mental health. You also have the obligation to your son, which is no small task. Your H has opted out of that obligation. You can opt of out the obligation to try to make things “easier” for him. Sorry for the babble, I can just really feel for what you’re going through right now. I hate to say it but the only way it eased for me was through us separating and him moving out. Huge hugs my dear. Can you share how you communicated with him neutrally?
Yes I appreciate the support system I have here because, like you said, sometimes it's what gets me through a day.
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Post by solodriver on Oct 25, 2018 0:22:45 GMT -5
So I have been in a bit of a tense and awkward marital time these days. In summary: I have clarity that this cannot be fixed. I would like to keep it peaceful and amicable. Due to intense and acute situation with children separating is not a good idea at this time. We need at least 1 year. H wants to keep working on relationship and fix it. He is very scared of divorce and wanta the marriage to work. He knows how I feel. VERY clear and honest communication has happened. However since we are not actually separating yet he is using this as an opportunity to work on things. I am encouraging of his personal work- I love him enough that I want him to be able to grow and recover from his crippling issues around intimacy. And if I am suddenly miraculously interested in him again I am not OPPOSED to my marriage working. I just do not at all believe that will or can happen. What this leads to is us having many awkward moments where he will try to be affectionate mildly (not sexual- see previous statement about crippling issues around intimacy) and it is awkward and uncomfortable. I am not initiating or encouraging this affection as it feels dishonest since I do not want him sexually and feel our marriage is over. When I tell him his awkward arm around me feels strange and he agrees it feels awkward. He believes we need to face how awkward it is in order to move past it, i.e. fix it. So..... I want to just officially live as roomates and coparents. That part of our relationship remains natural. It is the part we never lost. We joke and laugh, we spend time with the kids together, we talk about interesting anecdotes from our day or from his studies. That is all fine. How do I keep the fine stuff while still moving toward an exit? How do I continue to live with him while we want such different things? Is it right to shut down all affection when there is a tiny sliver of "what if?" in the world? (Tiny) Should I attempt to make affection less awkward (I could- I have been smoothing out his awkwardness for 18 years and am quite good at it) or is that leading him on? Basically how do you still live together while believing divorce is inevitable? Avoid? Engage? Also have any of you faced a SO that fights you on separation/divorce, insisting they can fix the problem? I know lots of you had to do this so any advice is appreciated. And no, I have not seen a lawyer but it is on the to do list. Life is a little crazy right now. Weekends are the worse for me because we're together so much of the time. I have to find ways to keep myself busy and away from her so I don't get angry, say something stupid and put myself into a situation I'm not ready for yet.
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Post by workingonit on Oct 25, 2018 5:34:35 GMT -5
Thank you all so much. You probably know but there are some days y'all keep me afloat. It feels particularly important to hear from you choosinghappy when I REALLY feel like you GET IT. Thank you❤. Last night (we are doing Wed night relationship talks to try to prevent daily torture) was a break through talk. I was able to really show pain and really explain how his shutting down around things that scare him have resulted in losing me and his son. Something in the way I did this with real examples and raw pain made my husband get it in a way he has not. I took responsibility for treating him with kid gloves most of our marriage. I was able to particularly show how a situation with my son happened over the previous 24 hours that illustrated how totally checked out he is and how he has abandoned even the pretense of parenting him. There was nothing my h could say in his owm defense. He was flabbergasted at the truth right in front of him and could say nothing but "If only I were wired differently." To which I said "Yes. If you were wired differently we would not be here." We cried a bit for the fact that we do not have the marriage we wanted. I told him he should reconsider a semester abroad (something he thought about) as a separation or that we should discuss him moving out. I told him there is no working on this marriage anymore. This is not just history but is current- daily he is neglecting his son and me- and I am done trying to fix anything. He expressed how much he loves me. How hard it is for him that he has fucked up so badly. How much he loves our son and is shocked by how horrible a father he is. He does not want to separate but understands why I do and agrees. Still awhile off no doubt. I am still looking at next summer although hoping he takes next semester abroad. But I feel like things shifted last night. We shall see....
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Post by heartbrokengirl on Oct 25, 2018 6:15:56 GMT -5
He expressed how much he loves me. How hard it is for him that he has fucked up so badly. How much he loves our son and is shocked by how horrible a father he is. He does not want to separate but understands why I do and agrees. workingonit , these are exactly the kinds of conversations I’ve been having with my h over the past few months. I want to point something out to you that took a while for me to realize why his reactions, like your h’s above, actually made me angry. I struggled for a while thinking his remorse and regret could be a potential catalyst for a change in my marriage until I read his reactions a little more closely. Just like your h, mine is struggling because of how hard it is *for him* that he hurt me. Not that he felt empathy for my pain but that he felt sorry for himself. Yours is “shocked” about being a horrible father; mine was “shocked” he had the capability to lie to me for years. But they make it about them - internalizing their unacceptable behavior but not doing anything to remedy it within the marriage. They’re even disgusted with themselves that they can’t do the things that would demonstrate they’re a different person than what their previous actions show. It’s a victim-mindset. He turns it into a self-indulgent thought process instead of taking the opportunity to turn toward you, acknowledge your hurt, and work to repair the marriage. Poor him; he’s bad, and he can’t fix it. Once I realized this about my h, it completely changed my outlook on my marriage. His victim mindset means he refuses to take responsibility for his part in the marriage and likely never will. This has helped me detach from him too. I thought sharing my takeaway might help you see it in a different light.
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Post by javba on Oct 25, 2018 6:46:30 GMT -5
Refuser Themes emerging
1. Victim mindset 2. I'm shocked 3. Hard for me 4. I've really done everything 5. I'm willing to do anything 6. You're not cooperative
What I'm afraid of is this sucking out even more time and energy out of our liveable, sellable periods of lifetime.
Yes dear let's go to counseling again so you can pretend nothing happened, while you called me names or made me feel like crap for years.
Don't know if life is long enough for these shenanigans.
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Post by choosinghappy on Oct 25, 2018 8:40:41 GMT -5
Thank you all so much. You probably know but there are some days y'all keep me afloat. It feels particularly important to hear from you choosinghappy when I REALLY feel like you GET IT. Thank you❤. Last night (we are doing Wed night relationship talks to try to prevent daily torture) was a break through talk. I was able to really show pain and really explain how his shutting down around things that scare him have resulted in losing me and his son. Something in the way I did this with real examples and raw pain made my husband get it in a way he has not. I took responsibility for treating him with kid gloves most of our marriage. I was able to particularly show how a situation with my son happened over the previous 24 hours that illustrated how totally checked out he is and how he has abandoned even the pretense of parenting him. There was nothing my h could say in his owm defense. He was flabbergasted at the truth right in front of him and could say nothing but "If only I were wired differently." To which I said "Yes. If you were wired differently we would not be here." We cried a bit for the fact that we do not have the marriage we wanted. I told him he should reconsider a semester abroad (something he thought about) as a separation or that we should discuss him moving out. I told him there is no working on this marriage anymore. This is not just history but is current- daily he is neglecting his son and me- and I am done trying to fix anything. He expressed how much he loves me. How hard it is for him that he has fucked up so badly. How much he loves our son and is shocked by how horrible a father he is. He does not want to separate but understands why I do and agrees. Still awhile off no doubt. I am still looking at next summer although hoping he takes next semester abroad. But I feel like things shifted last night. We shall see.... I feel some relief for you workingonit, hearing about that talk and possible breakthrough. I really hope it will change his behavior in a way that makes it tolerable for you to be in the situation until you (or he) can leave. Reach out when you want to get together dear ❤️
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