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Post by northstarmom on Jun 26, 2018 5:31:03 GMT -5
Your first thread demonstrated your awareness that you are irreparably sexually incompatible. ”Then he told me that he really never liked or wanted vaginal sex. That he is not gay but that his only fantasy is oral sex. Ok.....fine. I am game for some oral! Usually before some penetration but ok. This started a horrible cycle where he would reject any move toward sex but let me give him oral. He would then use some sex toys on me (which I could do on my own, thank you). The kissing diminished, the cuddling diminished, the fun diminished, the connection all but died. It was like he would let me service him but refused to have sex other than him laying back while I gave him oral. This got old fast. The more I pushed the more he just had a million excuses. Including, to his credit " I am just f-ed up, I just only like oral sex, I just don't need affection like you do because my life was so messed up." I basically told him I was willing to do whatever he needed in order to move forward with intimacy but there had to be some movement on his part. I stopped initiating, not wanting more rejection. This just made him more insecure.
Fast forward to today. Last month marked 8 years since I have had sex. I am 43 years old. It has been 4 years since there has been any sexual contact at all. And 2 years since we have even hugged, held hands, cuddled, kissed.
I am asking the question about hope because I am in therapy now and I feel like I am going through the motions of trying to fix this mess. However, I am starting to be honest with myself that I don't even believe it can be fixed. He does not want to do the work on himself he needs to do to be intimate. He is saying he wants to now that I am moving toward the exit but I honestly don't think I believe him. When I hope for the future it is not him that I see myself laying tangled with on a rumpled bed. It is someone who WANTs to be there with me. ”
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Post by workingonit on Jun 26, 2018 6:13:56 GMT -5
Tha ks for the reminder northstarmom . I am actually feeling really good for holding onto the truth in our current conversations. A snippet: H: "You know I am really sexual too. I need sex and intimacy as much as you do." Me: "Perhaps. But we would not be here and we would not be having this conversation and we would not have been in therapy all year if I had not told you I was on my way out. If I had kept things the status quo you would never have done anything. So that is not the same. The loneliness is killing me. You don't even notice it." I also pulled a northstarmom truth bomb. When he said he thought things were better- that we were communicating and committed again. I told him he still is not interested in fucking me, which is the problem, so no, it is not better.
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Post by workingonit on Jun 26, 2018 6:16:06 GMT -5
greatcoastal his love language is all about the words. If he has the words he is happy. He has self esteem issues and needs lots of verbal affirmation. Me telling him I am moving toward the exit is really hard for him.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 26, 2018 6:44:25 GMT -5
Good morning! I was just going over in my head what you might need to hear this morning. And then here it is ,you and northstarmom are speaking about it! It's like @baseballgirl says, "it's time to lay your cards on the table". Just a few examples, no need to sugar coat things, (he will just spin and reject your words anyways to fit his needs). This is called JADE. Justify,Argue,Defend, or Explain, Yourself. "You are not interested in fucking me", "The loneliness is killing me. You don't even notice it". Things are better for you, again. You don't even touch me, and if you do it's just fake. Who wants to be married to someone like that? I get more affection, love, and a feeling of being wanted from the dog. However you need to not do that. reading this will explain it better. Hope it helps, another step forward in your journey! You can do this, and you deserve it! www.crazybusters.com/2016/10/12/how-to-win-an-argument-with-a-narcissist-part-two/
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Post by northstarmom on Jun 26, 2018 6:53:00 GMT -5
Workingonit said: “My h has the distinct ability to shove his head in the sand when things are intimately difficult to deal with. He does this with our very intense son with mental health challenges, he does this with anything he does not want to deal with. His sink in our bathroom leaked for years and instead of dealing with it he would just reach under the sink to turn on/off the water. He has a really impressive ability to just not face certain in the world issues. He has all sorts of amazing esoteric explanations about why our relationship is in a "hard" place and how it will improve. Not one of these explanations or long rants ever actually addresses the fact that WE DON'T HAVE SEX. His head has been so far in the sand about this problem for so very very long. “
Your head is in the sand, too. The bathroom was part of the house thatboth of you lived in. It was a problem you could have easily solved by calling a plumber instead of ignoring the problem while your husband ignored it.
Your husband’s actions and words for years have told you clearly that mutually enjoyable sex is not possible for you with him. Going to therapy with him will not solve this. There is nothing for the 2 of you to discuss about improving your marriage so you are happy. The steps that need to be taken are steps for you to take; see s lawyer and get the divorce started. Going to sex counseling or jawboning about how your h has hurt you are just delaying what is inevitable if you honor the reality of your situation. Coddling your husband by not acting on your truth is just making the process longer and more painful. He does not have to agree to the divorce or to your reasons for divorce for you to divorce him. You also can’t prevent him from Feeling badly about the divorce. It is natural to feel bad when one divorces. He has a right to feel bad about the divorce just as you have the right to feel bad about the lack of sex in your marriage. He is so sex aversive that it would be too emotionally difficult for him to provide the sex that would allow you to be happily married. Going without sex is too painful for you to stay in the sm that meets his needs.
Thus, divorce is the only solution. It will cause temporary pain for both of you. Your choice is to embrace that temporary pain or continue with permanent pain.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 26, 2018 7:16:16 GMT -5
greatcoastal his love language is all about the words. If he has the words he is happy. He has self esteem issues and needs lots of verbal affirmation. Me telling him I am moving toward the exit is really hard for him. I can only imagine how much that plays negatively into all other aspects of your marriage? I have a good friend (a mentor) whose house I go to often. He's married with one daughter. Both him and his W. work from home. His W.s love language is Words of affirmation, I can tell he is very aware of it, he piles it on her when we are all together. Sounds great doesn't it? ( he does that to me, and my daughter a lot too. 'Kudos for reaching out, the effort and caring' yet it gets old, and fake after a while) Yet when we are at the table eating, he interupts her constantly! So does their daughter! Who do you think she learned that from? So I point this out to him when we are alone. "you interrupt your W a lot. You should see her facial expressions, the body language. She retreats, withdrawals, gives a big sigh, as you talk right over her. Your daughter does the same thing, it's quite a competition to be heard. I like what your Wife has to say. it's helpful. She needs more time to think about it, so she talks slower and needs a little more time to gather her thoughts , and you speak right over her and interrupt. Then your W pretends that everything is okay. Do you really think it is? For how long? You need to be aware of that and work on that!" That's the kind of tough love I give to my male friend. It strengthens our friendship. He gives me the same "tough" advice as I go through my divorce. I bet it will be hard on your H. He's been wanting years of "fluff" someone else who will deny his every fault and stick their head in the sand with him. I'm very proud of you for seeing the light. Forget this" tug of war games." You need to just drop the rope and move forward. It looks like your detaching is working in your favor. You can't change someone who refuses to face his fears, and manipulates "his faults" and puts the blame on you!
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jun 26, 2018 7:24:30 GMT -5
When I told my H of my decision to divorce, I offered to attend a counseling session (or 2) to help him navigate through the divorce process. It was a way to help him catch up to where I was in the process- explicitly, it was not to save the marriage or avoid divorce, it was as an assist for him to handle the adjustment to the new reality.
He said he did want that. I told him he needed to find the person & make the appt. Halfway through he process of setting the appt, he needed my help to make some calls (seriously?). I did, because it wasn’t that inconvenient.
We show up there, and he acted so polite! He never interrupted me. He looked toward me when I spoke. It was strange. Toward the end of the hour, the therapist tells us we seem to have a good working relationship and so long as we continue this respectful way of being with each other, that will go a long way to making the divorce process less painful. I stopped & clarified that this was one of the first times in over 3 yrs I had been able to complete a sentence and that he had only been this respectful to me since I said I was leaving. It was “the audience” that changed the way my Ex acted.
Still, he went to individual counseling half a dozen times to help him adjust to divorcing. I went the once only.
Therapy isn’t always to save the marriage. It can be used proactively to discus the disengagement process too.
Good luck, sister. Stay strong.
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Post by northstarmom on Jun 26, 2018 7:44:50 GMT -5
Workingonit said “greatcoastal his love language is all about the words. If he has the words he is happy. He has self esteem issues and needs lots of verbal affirmation. Me telling him I am moving toward the exit is really hard for him.”
It’s hard for him just as being sex deprived has been hard for you for years. It’s not your job to shield him from the pain his behavior and lack of honesty caused. I doubt that before marrying you he told you about his sexual aversion. I doubt that you’d have married him if he had said he doesn’t like vaginal sex. The pain he is experiencing now is the natural consequences of his behavior.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 26, 2018 8:00:26 GMT -5
greatcoastal his love language is all about the words. If he has the words he is happy. He has self esteem issues and needs lots of verbal affirmation. Me telling him I am moving toward the exit is really hard for him. "If he has the words he is happy". Does this mean he is constantly RECEIVING words from you? Well if that's true, his self esteem should be pretty good by now! Friend, it sounds like he's been playing his 'sympathy' card for to long. What woman wants that? There is nothing wrong with you ,finally, asking for some well deserved RECEIVING for yourself! There's a child involved in all of this, that makes it all the harder for you to leave the marriage and find a better example and heal yourself. I'm going to guess that it's going to be better for your child in the long run. All of us speaking to you had children involved and can relate. Do you have another woman to be your support network?
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Post by workingonit on Jun 26, 2018 16:17:03 GMT -5
greatcoastal his love language is all about the words. If he has the words he is happy. He has self esteem issues and needs lots of verbal affirmation. Me telling him I am moving toward the exit is really hard for him. "If he has the words he is happy". Does this mean he is constantly RECEIVING words from you? Well if that's true, his self esteem should be pretty good by now! Friend, it sounds like he's been playing his 'sympathy' card for to long. What woman wants that? There is nothing wrong with you ,finally, asking for some well deserved RECEIVING for yourself! There's a child involved in all of this, that makes it all the harder for you to leave the marriage and find a better example and heal yourself. I'm going to guess that it's going to be better for your child in the long run. All of us speaking to you had children involved and can relate. Do you have another woman to be your support network? I have 2 kids actually but my youngest (15) has lots of issues. His stability in this process is very important to me. It is helpful to think about how he has been getting his love language needs met for years while I have not. I have not had that perspective so thanks greatcoastal . I have a wonderful support network. I have a community of women that are here for me. I also have 3 very close friends that are my daily support system, as I am for them. Additionally my sister, father and aunt are all aware of what is going on and provide support as well. I am really blesses with loving and close relationships and friends that know my situation and want the best for me.
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Post by workingonit on Jun 26, 2018 16:19:17 GMT -5
GeekGoddess I really love that framing of this therapy attempt. I am very curious to see if he will actually call. I actually laughed when you x asked for help making the calls. That is exactly what my h would do. Thanks for the support!
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Post by workingonit on Jun 26, 2018 16:22:37 GMT -5
Well if that's true, his self esteem should be pretty good by now! Friend, it sounds like he's been playing his 'sympathy' card for to long. What woman wants that? greatcoastal this is damn insightful of you. And really hits the nail on the head. And I AM guilty of playing along, sticking my own head in the sand in the hope of being a "good wife."
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jun 26, 2018 16:24:33 GMT -5
The whole thing reinforced that I had made the right choice. We agreed he would pay for it. Once there, H asked therapist about amount. Guy said we didn’t have to pay that day. He mailed a bill. H “didn’t have that much” at that time. I paid it based on him “getting back” at least half to me. He never did.
I swear I married an adult male. 17 years later, he had turned into a lame punk-ass irresponsible teen somehow.
I just kept taking these “lessons” as reinforcers that I had made the right call (Time of Death).
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Post by unmatched on Jun 26, 2018 18:53:46 GMT -5
GeekGoddess I really love that framing of this therapy attempt. I am very curious to see if he will actually call. I actually laughed when you x asked for help making the calls. That is exactly what my h would do. Thanks for the support! Even if he does call it seems to me there is a big difference between wanting to 'save the marriage' and wanting to make you happy. I remember at one point my wife saying 'I am not the one who wants to separate. I am very happy in our marriage.' And it struck me that there was a huge disconnect there. Because I was desperately craving touch and affection and she knew that. And I couldn't see how she could be happy knowing I was in pain. If he really wanted to make you happy, you would have felt it by now. And physically, not just in words.
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sufferinhubby
Junior Member
My marriage is not a tragedy. It's more like a romantic comedy without the romance
Posts: 67
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by sufferinhubby on Jul 2, 2018 16:33:39 GMT -5
Refusers say and do the bare minimum to maintain status quo and think nothing of making little white lies and empty promises then go right back to being themselves the minute things "return to normal". A person who is asexual/intimacy averse/too self-centered to care about you will not change and will basically do as little as it takes to shut you up.
Well, that's my experience anyway
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