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Post by workingonit on Jul 10, 2018 8:33:45 GMT -5
Hi gang. Thought I would update this thread for my own personal venting and perhaps some advice from you lovely people.
Things continue to move along at my house. H and I continue to have more and deeper communication. We discussed openly the fact that he is acting from fear of losing me right now and that will never lead to the real change that our marriage needs. He admitted that part of him wants things to go back to the way they have always been. He said though that he sees I am breaking the pattern of our relationship and he believes he needs to as well- that this is real growth. He finally admitted that he needs to do personal work on himself (until now he has been believing marriage counseling is all we need). He asked if it was too late. I paused for awhile and said "I think so." We were sad a bit together. I agreed to continue with the plan to see the therapist he has made an appointment with for us. But I told him it may end up being support for ending the marriage.
The thing is, sex is a symptom. You wise and glorious humans have said his all along. I, like so many, came here believeing everything was great bar the sex. But alas I believe that is not generally true.
We have core pattern in our relationship where I take care of him emotionally, often by suppressing my own thoughts and needs to avoid upsetting his delicate nature. He in turn has a worshipful demeanor toward me, almost fear, that keeps him stuck in his own weakness. As our therapist pointed out, he made me his mother and I accepted that role (subconsciously). We have perfected this circle and I believe it has stifled both of us. He has poured his strength and heart into his academic work and studies. I have poured myself into my career, my children, and my friends and family.
As I am doing this work something is happening. I am WAKING UP. My bestie told me I am having a midlife crisis. She is not wrong but it feels like more than that. It feels like I am bursting out of the ways I have been trapped and breathing free again. I am dreaming big and listening to more music and meeting new people and speaking my truth. It has been coming on for years and now it feels absolutely impossible to shove myself back in the box I have lived in for 18 years. In fact it feels...beautiful and sexy and powerful and capable of anything.
My h has ignored and brushed aside and rejected my changes over the years as well as my invitations to be a part of them. Now he is scared and it just does not feel like my problem. I am taking responsibility for my part, trying to work on why I got in this position and figuring out how to never be here again. Owning my own martyrdom complex and my own codependent tendencies. Bye codepency! I am all done with you and your mindfuckery.
Therapy appt is next week. I will let you all know how it goes!
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Post by bballgirl on Jul 10, 2018 9:06:15 GMT -5
Good for you workingonit In my opinion it doesn’t seem like a midlife crisis to me. The only crisis is the marriage, sadly and yes lack of sex is definitely a symptom of an unhealthy relationship. It’s not a midlife crisis because people change. We are not the same person at 40 that we were at 20 and in a marriage we either grow together or apart. Its great that you recognize the codependency tendencies that you have and I can relate because I have them too, but it’s like you have to reinvent yourself. During the time I was separated from Mr Bballgirl- I learned a lot about myself, I focused on myself, I renewed old friendships, made new friendships, tried new experiences, etc. So focus on yourself and everything will fall into place.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jul 10, 2018 11:46:28 GMT -5
I’m digging this latest update. Great growth work!
I think what we have - either at a certain age, or exacerbated by the SM - is a perspective crisis. Originally as our sex life tapered, it was always “ok enough” or perhaps “normal because of other challenges” to not have sex as much as I would have liked. I discounted those changes as much as my H discounted mine, I guess.
I love that you pointed out inviting him to be a part of them. I tried to, as well - sand was declined there almost as much as in the bed.
But suddenly my perspective cleared, focused through 3 years of complete celibacy. I’m not positive if his rudeness really increased as much as I thought. Or if I finally saw the rudeness in our interactions. I finally could tell it wasn’t right, and it wasn’t me being too sensitive.
But really - the shifting perception was mine. And it did make me re-question and re-measure what was going on as a daily routine of maltreatment.
I just “woke up” and was finally of an age to say “I won’t take this treatment” (as kindly but firmly as I could).
Congratulations on coming alive, lady!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 12:04:59 GMT -5
It is so wonderful and inspiring to read this kind of thing.
At the risk of alienating everyone else....yeyasher kocheich.
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catsloveme
Full Member
Dwelling in the possible
Posts: 207
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Post by catsloveme on Jul 10, 2018 12:06:20 GMT -5
Hi gang. Thought I would update this thread for my own personal venting and perhaps some advice from you lovely people. Things continue to move along at my house. H and I continue to have more and deeper communication. We discussed openly the fact that he is acting from fear of losing me right now and that will never lead to the real change that our marriage needs. He admitted that part of him wants things to go back to the way they have always been. He said though that he sees I am breaking the pattern of our relationship and he believes he needs to as well- that this is real growth. He finally admitted that he needs to do personal work on himself (until now he has been believing marriage counseling is all we need). He asked if it was too late. I paused for awhile and said "I think so." We were sad a bit together. I agreed to continue with the plan to see the therapist he has made an appointment with for us. But I told him it may end up being support for ending the marriage. The thing is, sex is a symptom. You wise and glorious humans have said his all along. I, like so many, came here believeing everything was great bar the sex. But alas I believe that is not generally true. We have core pattern in our relationship where I take care of him emotionally, often by suppressing my own thoughts and needs to avoid upsetting his delicate nature. He in turn has a worshipful demeanor toward me, almost fear, that keeps him stuck in his own weakness. As our therapist pointed out, he made me his mother and I accepted that role (subconsciously). We have perfected this circle and I believe it has stifled both of us. He has poured his strength and heart into his academic work and studies. I have poured myself into my career, my children, and my friends and family. As I am doing this work something is happening. I am WAKING UP. My bestie told me I am having a midlife crisis. She is not wrong but it feels like more than that. It feels like I am bursting out of the ways I have been trapped and breathing free again. I am dreaming big and listening to more music and meeting new people and speaking my truth. It has been coming on for years and now it feels absolutely impossible to shove myself back in the box I have lived in for 18 years. In fact it feels...beautiful and sexy and powerful and capable of anything. My h has ignored and brushed aside and rejected my changes over the years as well as my invitations to be a part of them. Now he is scared and it just does not feel like my problem. I am taking responsibility for my part, trying to work on why I got in this position and figuring out how to never be here again. Owning my own martyrdom complex and my own codependent tendencies. Bye codepency! I am all done with you and your mindfuckery. Therapy appt is next week. I will let you all know how it goes! I want to “love” this post and not just give it a thumbs-up. Kudos to you for your hard work on yourself!
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Post by WindSister on Jul 10, 2018 12:33:11 GMT -5
It's not a midlife crisis. It's a midlife awakening. Everyone should be so lucky to experience it. The zombie life is no life for Me!
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Post by shamwow on Jul 10, 2018 17:34:06 GMT -5
Hi gang. Thought I would update this thread for my own personal venting and perhaps some advice from you lovely people. Things continue to move along at my house. H and I continue to have more and deeper communication. We discussed openly the fact that he is acting from fear of losing me right now and that will never lead to the real change that our marriage needs. He admitted that part of him wants things to go back to the way they have always been. He said though that he sees I am breaking the pattern of our relationship and he believes he needs to as well- that this is real growth. He finally admitted that he needs to do personal work on himself (until now he has been believing marriage counseling is all we need). He asked if it was too late. I paused for awhile and said "I think so." We were sad a bit together. I agreed to continue with the plan to see the therapist he has made an appointment with for us. But I told him it may end up being support for ending the marriage. The thing is, sex is a symptom. You wise and glorious humans have said his all along. I, like so many, came here believeing everything was great bar the sex. But alas I believe that is not generally true. We have core pattern in our relationship where I take care of him emotionally, often by suppressing my own thoughts and needs to avoid upsetting his delicate nature. He in turn has a worshipful demeanor toward me, almost fear, that keeps him stuck in his own weakness. As our therapist pointed out, he made me his mother and I accepted that role (subconsciously). We have perfected this circle and I believe it has stifled both of us. He has poured his strength and heart into his academic work and studies. I have poured myself into my career, my children, and my friends and family. As I am doing this work something is happening. I am WAKING UP. My bestie told me I am having a midlife crisis. She is not wrong but it feels like more than that. It feels like I am bursting out of the ways I have been trapped and breathing free again. I am dreaming big and listening to more music and meeting new people and speaking my truth. It has been coming on for years and now it feels absolutely impossible to shove myself back in the box I have lived in for 18 years. In fact it feels...beautiful and sexy and powerful and capable of anything. My h has ignored and brushed aside and rejected my changes over the years as well as my invitations to be a part of them. Now he is scared and it just does not feel like my problem. I am taking responsibility for my part, trying to work on why I got in this position and figuring out how to never be here again. Owning my own martyrdom complex and my own codependent tendencies. Bye codepency! I am all done with you and your mindfuckery. Therapy appt is next week. I will let you all know how it goes! I'm sure from the caterpiller perspective chrysalis is a painful process. But the transformation is tremendous. I do know (from my own experience at least) that ending a marriage is quite painful. Your husband may never crawl out of his cocoon, but reading through this thread (playing catch up) my money is that you will.
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Post by baza on Jul 11, 2018 0:24:45 GMT -5
Well done on your digging for the truth Sister workingonit . It actually looks like you have been using a front-end-loader in your excavation !! FWIW, I believe that if you follow your process - like you have been doing - then the truth will be so bleeding obvious that you can't help but make the "right" ( for workingonit ) choices.
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nicky
Junior Member
Posts: 36
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Post by nicky on Jul 11, 2018 1:16:14 GMT -5
My h has ignored and brushed aside and rejected my changes over the years as well as my invitations to be a part of them. Now he is scared and it just does not feel like my problem. I am taking responsibility for my part, trying to work on why I got in this position and figuring out how to never be here again. Owning my own martyrdom complex and my own codependent tendencies. Bye codepency! I am all done with you and your mindfuckery. well done! you deserve a standing ovation! *NICKY STANDS UP AND CLAPS AND CHEERS*
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Post by ironhamster on Jul 11, 2018 2:26:10 GMT -5
I am truly happy for you, and optimistic for you, workingonit.
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Post by workingonit on Jul 19, 2018 5:15:36 GMT -5
Ok. New update. (Long and ranty!) We went to a new therapist last night. It was okay. We mostly gave background on our relationship. We were both really honest and factual and she was very impressed with how far along we are and how much we know our process and our patterns. She exclaimed that we were much further along in the therapeutic process than most couples she sees. Other than that she didn't really do much she really just listened. She wants us to get clear on what we want out of this process which I think is very different from each other and I mentioned that.
After that we surprisingly fought for about an hour in the car on the way home pulled over on the side of the road. I had a big self AHA moment when I realized I am wanting my h to agree that this is hopeless and agree to part amicably. I have been working on myself and our issues for so so long that I am really further along then he is. In some ways I have mourned what could have been already. That is hard for me because I have been so averse to hurting him for 18 years and my lack of hope for and desire to make this marriage work is dried up which is painful for him as his has not.
He also can fucking talk anyone in circles and that is so difficult.
Some snippets: H: "It is cruel of you to say nothing has changed. I have been working hard for the past year to really face this reality and make changes. It is also factually inaccurate to say we do not touch when I have made an effort to hug you and kiss you goodnight every night. It is demeaning and insulting for you to disregard the work I have done."
Me: (loudly, with incredulity) "I am cruel?!? I deserve someone that does not need to work hard for a year to give me a platonic kiss on the lips! I want to be wanted in a way that it would be completely unaccepetable and impossible to go 5 years without touching me and 9 years without having sex with me."
H:"I do want you that way. I want you more than I have ever wanted anyone."
Me: "No. You don't. Those are just words. Your actions and rejections speak much louder. The way you claim to want me is not enough."
And this gem:
H:"I am working on opening up my own suppressed erotic nature. This is difficult when you say that due to neglect you no longer feel desire for me."
And round and round we go. I need to somehow want him to help him get in touch with his erotic nature so he can show that he wants me?!?! I told him that was NOT my job. Neglect has consequences. This is one of them.
*sigh* I don't think I need advice although it is always welcome from this crew.
I know what I need to do. I need to be willing to hurt him and simply get off this merry-go-round and say "I want a divorce." But the timing for my children is atrocious and waiting at least 1 more year is absolutely necessary.
And, yup, there is still anger and resentment in me!! Damn. He did own that he 'fucked up' for years, which is always good to hear. He apologized again and again. Doesn't undo the damage or magically create a sexual connection between us but it is something.
My h is gone now for 2 weeks with my older son. Happy for a break.
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nicky
Junior Member
Posts: 36
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Post by nicky on Jul 19, 2018 5:21:18 GMT -5
I know what I need to do. I need to be willing to hurt him and simply get off this merry-go-round and say "I want a divorce." But the timing for my children is atrocious and waiting at least 1 more year is absolutely necessary. love you, stay strong!
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Post by h on Jul 19, 2018 5:24:27 GMT -5
I hope it sinks in for him. He can't undo the last 9 years and he needs to live with the consequences of his actions (or inactions). You have a timeline and something to look forward to workingonit so at least there's that. Good luck and know that we're all here for you.
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Post by baza on Jul 19, 2018 6:16:55 GMT -5
This 2 weeks absence the rabbi is on is timely Sister workingonit . Temporary zip-code therapy is very valuable, gives you a chance to re-assess, review and re-group. As an observation (not a criticism) the rabbi is way more intelligent than you (or me, or anyone else in this group I'd suggest) and in any intellectual exchange he is going to steam-roll you. But you're smart Sister workingonit . And in real life, 'smart' trumps 'intellect' any day of the week. So you need to be playing the smart game, your game, the game you are good at. Not his game, of esoteric debate and language. Keep observing his actions, and base your choices on those actions.
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Post by northstarmom on Jul 19, 2018 6:29:45 GMT -5
“She wants us to get clear on what we want out of this process which I think is very different from each other and I mentioned that. ”
If what you want is support and help for you as a couple to move toward divorcing next year in a way that is as easy as possible for your children including your fragile younger son, you need to state that clearly in therapy.
You also need to see a lawyer and find out legally what would needs to be done to accomplish this including while protecting your interests.
You also need to say clearly incouples counselor thar the ship has sailed when it comes to your participating in efforts to rekindle (kindle?) sex in your marriage. You view your h and you as fundamentally sexually incompatible and you have no interest in sex with him. If he chooses to work on becoming more sexual, that would be something for him to work on in individual therapy for the sake of any future relationships. You will not work on it with him as his sexuality is no longer your concern.
I also suggest that you begin sleeping separately from your husband. That will help make it clear to both of you that that part of the marriage is over.
Right now you are treating the marriage like you treated the leak in your husband’s bathroom: you are aware of it and are watching your husband cope without fixing it. But you are not having a plumber address the problem.
The therapist is your plumber. You are wasting your time if for the sake of sparing your h’s feelings you don’t speak your truth. The point of the counseling can’t be forcing your husband to happily agree the marriage is unfixable. He may always prefer a deeply flawed marriage to divorce. The broken marriage may still fulfill his needs. If You no longer wish to be married to him, you need to say so.
Your truth is “My husband has told me he never was interested in vaginal sex. If I had known that before marriage, I never would have married him. After XX years of no sex, I realize we are sexually incompatible. This is not something that will change because I do not want to be married to a man who would ignore my sexual needs for xx years. That forced celibacy has caused irreparable harm to our marriage. I plan to divorce him next year. I am in this counseling to help us divorce in a way that is most supportive to our children including our son who has xxxx problems.”
Talk to a lawyer before you do this. For all you know, it may be possible to file now but delay the divorce til next year. I was able to do that, thus allowing me to remain on my h’s health insurance until he retired.
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