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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 17:36:33 GMT -5
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Post by flounder on Sept 9, 2018 19:39:10 GMT -5
This seems to be the thread I update on my story so I will continue. I have been pretty quiet on here recently, just quietly struggling in my process. My h and I have continued to have some long and very interesting conversations. About a month ago I put some boundaries on these very difficult conversations and he is mostly following that, which is better. Now we are only having them once a week, for 2 hours max. We are not doing therapy at the moment- the therapist even agreed that it would be more useful for him to work on himself before we try to do any more work together. He does not really agree. The main thing I have seen in these discussions more and more is that he is stuck in delusion. In June I wrote that I was willing to participate in whatever he initiated. That is no longer true. I have reached a new level of clarity. I believe my marriage, such as it is, is really over. My h is still trying to "fix" it but as he is unwilling to really look at the heart of the problem which is his deep insecurity and inability to face intimacy, there is no real hope that anything will change. He is instead trying to be really nice and considerate to me which is annoying mostly but sometimes ok. Of course, that was never the real problem in our relationship so it has no hope of actually changing anything. In the meantime he is actually MORE afraid and insecure now than ever before because a) I am actually on my way out and b) I am no longer offering him reassurances and trying desperately to bolster his self esteem. When I lavished him with praise and promised to always be with him he still was absolutely frozen with fear and insecurity around intimacy. I am no longer playing that role for him. I am no longer playing any role for him at all. I am working on recovering my own self esteem, my squashed power, my sexuality, my repressed love of adventure. And the world seems to be responding! I have had several friends compliment me lately with real feedback on how my energy and vitality have shifted. I have had a few men hit on me- mostly innocently- enough to make me feel like I really am recovering my sexual energy which has been long buried. As I have said before, separating right now is not right. My older son just started his senior year in high school with 5 AP classes, applications for college, a new job, etc. He needs stability. My younger son has serious mental health challenges and is trying to transition to school after 3 years of homeschooling during a breakdown. The first week has been...not good. He takes the majority of my energy, my focus. He takes up lots of the air in the whole house. And he does not have a real relationship with my h (yes, H's fault) so the burden of his mental health does fall naturally to me. They need the stability right now. There is no way for my h and I to have separate homes financially without selling this one, which would mean moving for the kids, which is not in their best interest right now. So at least 1 more year here in this living configuration. I may only make it by the skin of my teeth! As @shynjdude pointed out, this is the end of the Jewish year and the start of the next one. This is a huge moment spiritually for us Jews and introspection is a big part of this time of the year. In that spirit I want to say that the growth that I have had (going from having never spoken about my SM for 7 years to being on the verge of leaving 2 years later, knowing that I will be ok and that I deserve to be loved, almost free of shame) has so very much to do with this group. You all have been a lifeline and better than therapists! Your perspective has been precious, your humor keeps me sane, your struggles are instructive, your sexual exploits awaken me. I am so very grateful for this group. Thank you for sharing who you are, for seeing me and reflecting what you see. May we all have a year of growth, fun, love, authenticity, and joy! Bravo to you dear. You have yourself to thank most of all.
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Post by baza on Sept 9, 2018 20:20:26 GMT -5
Sometimes, it feels like things are moving at glacial pace, or are stalled. But it does read like your deal is sorting itself out, in as much as you have taken ownership of - and responsibility for - your role in the dynamic. And that is key.
Now, if the other players in the dynamic did the same (take ownership of - and responsibility for - their roles in the dynamic) this process would likely go a whole lot smoother. It does seem however that your spouse is a long long way from that...and might never get there. Your oldest might surprise you if you shifted a bit of his responsibility back to him, as appropriate. The youngest might respond well too - in time - but probably not now.
In any event, in the here and now you've done a great job, particularly as it seems to have resembled trying to herd cats at times. So you've done very well to get it all into some sort of order and priority Might be timely to reflect on what you've achieved to this point, and re-charge for the next bit.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Sept 9, 2018 21:56:15 GMT -5
workingonitl'shanah tovah Sending a great big hug. You are not alone on this path. There are many friends here to walk along side you.
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Post by choosinghappy on Sept 9, 2018 22:13:55 GMT -5
As flounder said: “you have yourself to thank most of all”.
As a bystander it seems to me you have done an amazing amount of work on your SELF during your time here. You amaze me with your strength, clarity, and yes, authenticity. Things may not be where you want them to be but you are taking positive steps for yourself in whatever ways you can while you wait it out. I hope things will be able to change for you within this new year. Continue to be brutally honest with yourself! It is serving you well. ((Hugs))
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Post by solodriver on Sept 9, 2018 22:45:15 GMT -5
Funny I just read this today.
My wife and I had a talk about our situation in July and she said she was going to make changes but they would be baby steps.
Yesterday something came up and when she rejected the way I wanted to handle the situation, I lost it. She asked me why did that make me so mad. I said it wasn't just that, it was EVERYTHING in our relationship.
Then she said didn't I want to make things just like they were when we met? I told her "I tried to have that conversation with you in July with a few suggestions of what we NEEDED to do and you REJECTED them all. Then when you made some suggestions of what you wanted to do, you failed to do any of them."
She said she knows I'm unhappy and what did I want to do. I said "At this point there is nothing that can be done. I no longer have any hope that our relationship can be mended. Do whatever the hell you want to do because it doesn't matter to me anymore. I need to go out and calm down."
So I grabbed the car keys and went and got the car washed. When I got home we had one more conversation, which was interesting because it tells me she's been thinking about things. She told me "I know you're very unhappy, but our debts will not allow us to live on our own separately." I said "I'm very aware of that but for now we have to focus on getting our debts knocked down and I will no longer offer any suggestions for you. Any problems with the car you will need to deal with. If it breaks down on the road don't call me, call AAA. In the meantime I will work on trying not to have angry outbursts and I will not ask you anymore things that you can REJECT."
The house has been silent as a library the rest of the weekend. But I've got to figure out a way to control the anger, which bubbles just under the surface.
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Post by solodriver on Sept 9, 2018 23:31:30 GMT -5
workingonit,
I'm walking the very same path as you. I've awakened to my situation and am no longer accepting my refuser's crap. My sexuality has awoken as well and I look forward to sharing that with someone someday (hopefully soon). I deserve love, respect, kindness and understanding, which I thank the members of this group for helping me find.
Due to finances I have to "gut it out" living with my refuser until next summer as well. Hopefully then I can make my move to a better life. In the meantime I'm taking any happiness I can find and grabbing it.
(((Hugs))) my friend. I know it sounds so tripe but it's all we can do. "Hang in there." And don't deny yourself happiness and comfort when it comes around.
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Post by greatcoastal on Sept 10, 2018 6:15:04 GMT -5
Funny I just read this today. My wife and I had a talk about our situation in July and she said she was going to make changes but they would be baby steps. Yesterday something came up and when she rejected the way I wanted to handle the situation, I lost it. She asked me why did that make me so mad. I said it wasn't just that, it was EVERYTHING in our relationship. Then she said didn't I want to make things just like they were when we met? I told her "I tried to have that conversation with you in July with a few suggestions of what we NEEDED to do and you REJECTED them all. Then when you made some suggestions of what you wanted to do, you failed to do any of them." She said she knows I'm unhappy and what did I want to do. I said "At this point there is nothing that can be done. I no longer have any hope that our relationship can be mended. Do whatever the hell you want to do because it doesn't matter to me anymore. I need to go out and calm down." So I grabbed the car keys and went and got the car washed. When I got home we had one more conversation, which was interesting because it tells me she's been thinking about things. She told me "I know you're very unhappy, but our debts will not allow us to live on our own separately." I said "I'm very aware of that but for now we have to focus on getting our debts knocked down and I will no longer offer any suggestions for you. Any problems with the car you will need to deal with. If it breaks down on the road don't call me, call AAA. In the meantime I will work on trying not to have angry outbursts and I will not ask you anymore things that you can REJECT." The house has been silent as a library the rest of the weekend. But I've got to figure out a way to control the anger, which bubbles just under the surface. I hope for your sake, you can read through this again, maybe a week from now, give it some time. I want you to notice how every fact that you stated, every boundary that you try to set, every time you point the finger at her, what does she do? She avoids it and reverses it by asking you a question. I went through decades of the same thing. The days when I woke up to it, my demeanor and approach changed. Some of the simplest of things, like me telling her, " all of this mess in the kitchen is yours and your father's, you need to clean it up, now. When are you going to get it done?" Then would come the questions and the reversal. She would say, " it's so and so's morning to clean the kitchen, shouldn't he have to do it?" I used to shrink into my cave and think, this is ridiculous, fine you handle it, it's a complete failure! Our son is in bed he works late hours, he's going to be gone again most of the day. You have such double standards! At the same time you tell the same son " you need to clean up after yourself, don't leave things lying around". Such crazy mind games! How did I change? I knew from experience what was going to happen, instead of cowering I dismissed all of her manipulation and said " I'll say it again, all of this mess in the kitchen is yours you need to clean it up now". Now it was her that would get angry and leave the room, I would follow her and tell her, " I'll answer your question too, NO he shouldn't have to do it, since you are the one who tells him, you need to clean up after yourself,don't leave things lying around". Total silence. And the mess remained in the kitchen. The time comes to realize, your spouse refuses to change and they have far deeper issues that will never be fixed. You, however can be fixed, by changing your environment and being with people who will respect your boundaries.
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Post by greatcoastal on Sept 11, 2018 15:19:19 GMT -5
"I know you're very unhappy, but our debts will not allow us to live on our own separately." I said "I'm very aware of that but for now we have to focus on getting our debts knocked down and I will no longer offer any suggestions for you. After the divorce you will be "STD" free! Sexually Transmitted Debt!!!
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Post by solodriver on Sept 11, 2018 20:26:56 GMT -5
"I know you're very unhappy, but our debts will not allow us to live on our own separately." I said "I'm very aware of that but for now we have to focus on getting our debts knocked down and I will no longer offer any suggestions for you. After the divorce you will be "STD" free! Sexually Transmitted Debt!!! ROTFL, OMG So Funny
I've had the disease longer than I had the sex that brought it on.
Thank you so much for that!!
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