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Post by northstarmom on Apr 2, 2018 8:06:33 GMT -5
“He’s apologized for his outburst this morning. Said it was directed at the kids instead of me. “
His behavior was childish and his excuse was a lie. You also need to make it clear that if he is taking the kids out, he needs to take at least half of the responsibility for getting them ready. Blowing up at them or you while he fumed and does nothing to get them ready and does not count.
You also need to stop jumping in and saving him. I don’t understand why you took all of the responsibility for getting the kids ready to go out with him. I also don’t understand why when he complained, you redoubled your efforts instead of telling him to help or letting him go without them.
Also, even young kids can be given some responsibility for getting ready. They can have by the door the items to take to their relatives. They also can get up with an alarm or when you wake them up. If they fail to get up, they can have to forgo the fun trip (I’m assuming here that it would have been boring for them but not a great inconvenience for you to have them with you that day). If forgoing the trip would not be possible then impose another natural consequence such as an earlier than usual bedtime since they were too tired to get up.
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Reset?
Apr 2, 2018 8:10:12 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by greatcoastal on Apr 2, 2018 8:10:12 GMT -5
I was simply giving you an example of what you "could do". And ended it with "you really xont want to be like that". That's not who you are.
I also pointed out "you and the family should not put up with that, ever again." Good luck with boundaries. The book "Boundaries in Marriage" explains that trying to set boundaries with a manipulative controller is futile. They will continue to ride over your boundaries like a tank.
You can point out someone's absurdity by being absurd right back at them.
Best to leave that up to a pro.
But hey, if it helps in the conversation, I'm glad I mentioned it!
Have a possitive day! That's what I'm heading for!! Hope your paintings sell!
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Post by bballgirl on Apr 2, 2018 8:22:23 GMT -5
Based on this thread, your husband’s pattern now is to get close after you put your foot down. Then, after some closeness, he manufactures an argument and an excuse to give you the silent, unaffectionate treatment. Now you are yet again wounded and preparing to do the hard work of confronting him. Seems like you are doing a lot of hard work in this marriage. It’s not normal to have to work and suffer so much in order to get laid or treated with respect and kindness. If you keep giving your all to save this dysfunctional marriage, you may wake up and realize you have nothing left for yourself. Also, your husband’s dysfunctional behavior is teaching your kids how to treat you and what to do and expect in their own relationships. Can you truthfully call your husband on his stonewalling treatment and tell him that if there’s a repeat, the marriage is over? His behavior is unacceptable, controlling and cruel. It also is within his control. Giving your all would be drawing that line and maintaining it. You can never have the marriage you want if he keeps stonewalling. My therapist and you are on the same page! She asks me, “It seems like you do all the heavy lifting in the relationship. You deal with his bad behavior. You work to understand it. You explain it all, work through it. Neatly package the tools and methods for handling it. Gift wrap it. Put a bow on it. And then wait to see if he’ll do a small piece of the relationship work.” He’s apologized for his outburst this morning. Said it was directed at the kids instead of me. I’m not quite buying it. He told me that I misunderstood. It’s possible. I may well be too sensitive to his moods and willingly accept to much of the blame. I don’t know. Honey you need to toughen up and not accept the way he treats you or the blame. Some of his bad behavior is on you because you have allowed and enabled him to talk to you and treat you this way. "He told you that you misunderstood" "He said that it was about the kids and not you" - Who the fuck is he to tell you what you understand and what you don't? Explain to him what you understand: 1) He acted like a child having a temper tantrum and you need a man that knows how to act like one and participate in parenting because if he can't put 100% into the relationship and the family responsibilities then divorce is all about 50/50, it's that simple. 2) He gave you zero help then complains - you want a partner not another child. Bottom line if all he's contributing to the relationship is his work and a paycheck then you can have that with or without him. His wages will be garnished and you can focus on yourself and the children you birthed, not the man child that is draining you. So it's his choice. He will be forced to change whether he changes to keep you in his life is up to him. Poor behavior has consequences.
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Post by greatcoastal on Apr 2, 2018 8:40:05 GMT -5
Just to echo bballgirl here; this sounds like that old story of the h saying " well I work and you don't". Then the w takes off for a month leaving the h with raising the family and all the household responsibilities and chores that come with running a household. The problem is what you are dealing with. A narcissist, a controller. Like many of us on this sight, it's going to take a divorce. Even then the controller will find another victim. You, however get a new beginning!
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Post by rejected101 on Apr 2, 2018 8:48:04 GMT -5
If 3 times in 4 days can be achieved under any circumstances then 3-4 times a month as a routine can be achieved without excuse. Personally I would recommend doing something sooner rather than later. Ask him...”did you enjoy having the sex with me”. His answer will either be... “yes it was really nice, I loved it” in which case future denials make zero sense whatsoever. Or his answer may be “it was ok, I liked it” in which case future denials are because he is comfortable ‘not bothering’ and your feelings are of little meaning to him. Or his answer will be “I didn’t like it” in which case you know how much chance you have of recovering the sexual contact long term. Either way, you will have an answer and something to quote him on if and when he starts avoiding sex again. Pretty typical of me, I encourage desired behavior. The first night we had sex. Following morning, rolled over and thanked him. Told him that I enjoyed it. That started off round 2. On an amusing note, h is a doctor. From his neurotic mom he’s picked up a fair amount of hypochondria. I think I only need to find a study from a reputable medical journal citing that sex with a partner is much more effective protection against prostate cancer than masturbation. And we may keep up a sustainable frequency.😉 But asking him if he enjoyed it, I should try it though I’m worried about asking. I can predict his reaction. He’ll bristle at the fact that it sounds like I’m asking for a compliment. He’ll find a way to slip in something backhanded to bring me down a peg. I’ll have to phrase it carefully or ask in a curious and non-threatening way. That’s a tall order, considering it was almost a year since the last time we had sex, and the last time I tried to initiate intimacy he called rape. Hmmm... I’ll keep you all posted. And thanks for listening, and encouraging and advising. Sucks to be in this situation. But it would be much, much worse going through it alone. You guys rock. There is definitely a way for you to ask without it appearing like you are fishing for compliments. Just be straight with him. You’re not asking if he thinks you are an amazing lover, simply that did he take any enjoyment for himself out of having sex. I can not even begin to believe that he didn’t given the fact you had sex several times so the question has to become, why the hell can he not deliver once a week as ‘the norm’. It seems a reasonable and achievable request I would say. Good luck!
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Post by bballgirl on Apr 2, 2018 8:55:02 GMT -5
Here's the thing - Relationships are tough even when you are on the same page sexually there will be times when arguments, moods, and personalities will come out.
With a lot of these SM's on one hand it's not just about the lack of sex, which with men refusers I believe porn addiction is the most common reason, but the common theme here is selfishness. They focus on themselves and it may start with sex and it's not so noticed early in a marriage but then when kids come in the picture and they are not doing their fair share with the kids and household responsibilities then it becomes more noticeable. Who knows maybe they think -"well if she is too tired from doing all the work around here she will be too tired for sex". They are clueless!
I think that the question to ask - Is my life better because he's in it?
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Post by hopingforachange on Apr 2, 2018 9:25:13 GMT -5
Here's the thing - Relationships are tough even when you are on the same page sexually there will be times when arguments, moods, and personalities will come out. With a lot of these SM's on one hand it's not just about the lack of sex, which with men refusers I believe porn addiction is the most common reason, but the common theme here is selfishness. They focus on themselves and it may start with sex and it's not so noticed early in a marriage but then when kids come in the picture and they are not doing their fair share with the kids and household responsibilities then it becomes more noticeable. Who knows maybe they think -"well if she is too tired from doing all the work around here she will be too tired for sex". They are clueless! I think that the question to ask - Is my life better because he's in it? Hahaha, I know I ran my self into the ground trying to do as much as I could to not have the, "I'm to tired," excuse from the W.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 2, 2018 9:37:20 GMT -5
“There is definitely a way for you to ask without it appearing like you are fishing for compliments. Just be straight with him. You’re not asking if he thinks you are an amazing lover, simply that did he take any enjoyment for himself out of having sex. I can not even begin to believe that he didn’t given the fact you had sex several times so the question has to become, why the hell can he not deliver once a week as ‘the norm’. It seems a reasonable and achievable request I would say. Good luck!”
There also is nothing wrong with expecting appreciation and, yes, even compliments after sex. It should leave both of you feeling closer and happy. If he does nothing to indicate that, assume it’s meh for him and realize that it’s not in your power to make him desire you. It is within your power to set yourself free to find a man who does desire you.
Speaking from experience. My refuser ex never expressed closeness or Appreciation or love after sex. I’m now with a man who does - without my asking. He also gives me regular spontaneous compliments and lights up when he sees me, something my ex never did. When I’d get dressed up and asked how I looked, he’d just say I was fishing for compliments. Ugh.
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Reset?
Apr 2, 2018 10:01:57 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by greatcoastal on Apr 2, 2018 10:01:57 GMT -5
On a side note; there's something about this "tittle" busines that irritates me! Doctor, your honor, officer, deputy, etc...
How much of that do you think plays a part in the amount of control and lack of respect in a marriage?
I realize that is just 🐟 fishing for more "why" answers.
The " what" part is what happens during sex and intimacy. The playing field is level and the control gets removed.
In more ways than one! Tittles, choice of expensive clothing, expensive jewelry, prestige, etc... All comes down to the NAKED truth.
Not to get all biblical on anyone, but look at the truth in that."they saw that they where both naked and where ashamed (afraid)" Talk about some deeper meaning, and usefull iformarion in a SM-but I digress.
Controllers can't handle that. It then flows over into all other aspects of the relationship.
For us we get hope.Hope that our true naked self is finally being recognized and accepted.
For them they get fear of it continuing and hope that it will now keep you even more under their control.And their true self will remain unexposed!
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Post by elynne on Apr 2, 2018 10:14:26 GMT -5
On a side note; there's something about this "tittle" busines that irritates me! Doctor, your honor, officer, deputy, etc... How much of that do you think plays a part in the amount of control and lack of respect in a marriage? I realize that is just 🐟 fishing for more "why" answers. The " what" part is what happens during sex and intimacy. The playing field is level and the control gets removed. Controllers can't handle that. It then flows over into all other aspects of the relationship. For us we get hope. For them they get fear of it continuing and hope that it will now keep you even more under their control. I think there is something to an avoidant attachment style and the profession they choose. Being able (or preferring) to put emotions aside can be a benefit in certain professions. Doctors, lawyers, CEO’s, scientists. This certainly doesn’t mean that all people in those professions are avoidant. But it may be a factor for some people in choosing a profession that appeals to them. And an avoidant attachment style may be less of a hindrance than in a more collaborative profession; teaching, or any profession that requires working well in a team! It can’t hurt to understand more, as long as it doesn’t prevent us from doing something about it.
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Post by elynne on Apr 2, 2018 10:18:40 GMT -5
“There is definitely a way for you to ask without it appearing like you are fishing for compliments. Just be straight with him. You’re not asking if he thinks you are an amazing lover, simply that did he take any enjoyment for himself out of having sex. I can not even begin to believe that he didn’t given the fact you had sex several times so the question has to become, why the hell can he not deliver once a week as ‘the norm’. It seems a reasonable and achievable request I would say. Good luck!” There also is nothing wrong with expecting appreciation and, yes, even compliments after sex. It should leave both of you feeling closer and happy. If he does nothing to indicate that, assume it’s meh for him and realize that it’s not in your power to make him desire you. It is within your power to set yourself free to find a man who does desire you. Speaking from experience. My refuser ex never expressed closeness or Appreciation or love after sex. I’m now with a man who does - without my asking. He also gives me regular spontaneous compliments and lights up when he sees me, something my ex never did. When I’d get dressed up and asked how I looked, he’d just say I was fishing for compliments. Ugh. Maybe more why chasing- but I strongly suspect that my h was chastised and shamed as a child whenever he did something he was proud of and asked for recognition for it. I think that’s why when I ask for a compliment, his reaction is to put me down. Funny, or maybe actually just sad and ironic, that if he gave compliments more freely, I wouldn’t ask for them!
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Post by bballgirl on Apr 2, 2018 10:28:07 GMT -5
“There is definitely a way for you to ask without it appearing like you are fishing for compliments. Just be straight with him. You’re not asking if he thinks you are an amazing lover, simply that did he take any enjoyment for himself out of having sex. I can not even begin to believe that he didn’t given the fact you had sex several times so the question has to become, why the hell can he not deliver once a week as ‘the norm’. It seems a reasonable and achievable request I would say. Good luck!” There also is nothing wrong with expecting appreciation and, yes, even compliments after sex. It should leave both of you feeling closer and happy. If he does nothing to indicate that, assume it’s meh for him and realize that it’s not in your power to make him desire you. It is within your power to set yourself free to find a man who does desire you. Speaking from experience. My refuser ex never expressed closeness or Appreciation or love after sex. I’m now with a man who does - without my asking. He also gives me regular spontaneous compliments and lights up when he sees me, something my ex never did. When I’d get dressed up and asked how I looked, he’d just say I was fishing for compliments. Ugh. Maybe more why chasing- but I strongly suspect that my h was chastised and shamed as a child whenever he did something he was proud of and asked for recognition for it. I think that’s why when I ask for a compliment, his reaction is to put me down. Funny, or maybe actually just sad and ironic, that if he gave compliments more freely, I wouldn’t ask for them! That's wrong. My ex H doesn't give compliments and has a tough time accepting them. I noticed that when I told him his beard looked nice he changed the subject - he couldn't even say thank you. That's on him. He has not told me I look pretty or beautiful since we got back together. I don't need words of affirmation from him in that Dept. However the day will come that I will make him aware of the fact that he doesn't give me compliments on my looks and I suspect he is going to want to remarry me some day. Well I would not date a man that doesn't tell me I'm pretty let alone remarry him lol. Turns out my biggest love language is words of affirmation and acts of service - physical touch is four out of five but I need all of them. At this point I have two men in my life providing me with the different love languages and for now it's working for me. So I can relate to the lack of compliment thing - again this is about them!
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Reset?
Apr 2, 2018 10:29:12 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by greatcoastal on Apr 2, 2018 10:29:12 GMT -5
On a side note; there's something about this "tittle" busines that irritates me! Doctor, your honor, officer, deputy, etc... How much of that do you think plays a part in the amount of control and lack of respect in a marriage? I realize that is just 🐟 fishing for more "why" answers. The " what" part is what happens during sex and intimacy. The playing field is level and the control gets removed. Controllers can't handle that. It then flows over into all other aspects of the relationship. For us we get hope. For them they get fear of it continuing and hope that it will now keep you even more under their control. I think there is something to an avoidant attachment style and the profession they choose. Being able (or preferring) to put emotions aside can be a benefit in certain professions. Doctors, lawyers, CEO’s, scientists. This certainly doesn’t mean that all people in those professions are avoidant. But it may be a factor for some people in choosing a profession that appeals to them. And an avoidant attachment style may be less of a hindrance than in a more collaborative profession; teaching, or any profession that requires working well in a team! It can’t hurt to understand more, as long as it doesn’t prevent us from doing something about it. Quite possibly. What about the controlling arrogance that they use as leverage in their dominant control? (Many times that includes money) One example I like is when I go surfing. All the tittles and fancy cars get left in the parking lot! Other than who's board is more expensive, or what name brand shorts you wear, it comes down to your performance and your true personality as you meet other surfers out in the ocean. It levels the playing field. Like sex and intimacy.
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Post by elynne on Apr 2, 2018 10:29:50 GMT -5
Based on this thread, your husband’s pattern now is to get close after you put your foot down. Then, after some closeness, he manufactures an argument and an excuse to give you the silent, unaffectionate treatment. Now you are yet again wounded and preparing to do the hard work of confronting him. Seems like you are doing a lot of hard work in this marriage. It’s not normal to have to work and suffer so much in order to get laid or treated with respect and kindness. If you keep giving your all to save this dysfunctional marriage, you may wake up and realize you have nothing left for yourself. Also, your husband’s dysfunctional behavior is teaching your kids how to treat you and what to do and expect in their own relationships. Can you truthfully call your husband on his stonewalling treatment and tell him that if there’s a repeat, the marriage is over? His behavior is unacceptable, controlling and cruel. It also is within his control. Giving your all would be drawing that line and maintaining it. You can never have the marriage you want if he keeps stonewalling. This is the hard truth. And I need to hear it. northstarmom - you are like my wiser half. Reminding me to continue to stand up for myself and that the burden of fixing our dysfunctional marriage is NOT solely my responsibility. My struggle is with the fear that if I don’t do it, he won’t step up and do his part. And where does that leave us? I can shoulder all of the responsibility for my emotions and reactions, for guiding him and encouraging him. But if it doesn’t start to flow both ways it’s not sustainable.
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Post by greatcoastal on Apr 2, 2018 10:46:40 GMT -5
How about " where does that leave me and the children?".
Well, I will give you my answer, and what I expect to be true for years to come.
It leaves me with my way to live, and my way of disciplining, praising, loving, my teenagers in these formidable years.
It also gives me the power and control to offer them an alternative.
I find myself getting told repeatedly- by people whose background and philosophy I respect- " your kids are going to want to stay with you more, and they will greatly appreciate that you offered them an alternative".
The ones who seem to already appreciate it the most are the ones who where adopted from an orphanage in a communist dictator nation and brought into America.
They too, had to take a risk and make huge, formidable life style changes. Life is going to be much better for them because of it!
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