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Post by johnwyo1 on Apr 2, 2018 4:56:11 GMT -5
Oh Dear. Here we go again. Another bullshit fight over nothing. And things had been going so well. This time the argument was about the kids being ready ‘on time’ to go with h to visit his father, mother, and then with his mother to his step dad in the hospital. I’m delivering a bunch of paintings to a gallery tomorrow morning and need to package the artwork - agreed that I’d skip this trip since we’re hosting his whole family for a party here next weekend. Kids weren’t out of bed. I got them up, hurried them along, made their breakfast. All was relatively good. But h was getting anxious about being on time. I suggested- you can always call and say I’ll be a 1/2 hour later. Move everything back 1/2 hour. Come home a 1/2 later. It’s all ok. Or suggest meeting your mom at the hospital to visit her husband and make 2 visits out of the 3? No. His mom needs a social visit away from the hospital to relax. Ok. Your choice. But then as I was brushing the girls hair, getting their things together for the car, drawings for Opa, etc. h gets very agitated. “I’m leaving NOW. You can do whatever you want with the kids.” I’m like “What? That’s a strange reaction. What do you mean by that?” He blusters out the door. I hurry the kids into the car and he peels out of the driveway. <sigh> Again and again and again, I relate a different story, different details, same exact theme. I’m getting stuck here. I know something is off. I know because I feel agitated. Guilty but angry that I’m made to feel guilty. The ‘waking up’ part of me is saying “hey! Red flag! Take notice” but I’m still struggling to really see the dynamic clearly. I’m going to get another silent treatment. I know it. I don’t know if it’s a reaction to being closer over the last few days. I don’t know if it’s the stress of visiting his narcissistic mom and dealing with her crazy since her husband is sick with an uncertain prognosis. He’s got to reach deep to be supportive. I don’t think it comes naturally to him. Is it just being 9 minutes later out the door than he intended that got under his skin? If that’s what set him off than perhaps he should have made sure the kids were out of bed earlier, backed me up when I wanted to send them to bed on time rather than letting them stay up late. I’ve got to figure out what’s going with me when I shoulder all the blame for his upset. There’s a glitch in the system there. I could have written the first line of your post myself this weekend. We had another bullshit fight over nothing again to start the weekend. What joy. The details are different of course but this gets to be such a sickening pattern. I got the silent treatment, never an apology, and though I just took the guff without retaliating for her insults, I so wanted to. So wanted to. I hope you are doing better in your relationship to start the week.
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Post by elynne on Apr 2, 2018 5:01:08 GMT -5
Oh Dear. Here we go again. Another bullshit fight over nothing. And things had been going so well. This time the argument was about the kids being ready ‘on time’ to go with h to visit his father, mother, and then with his mother to his step dad in the hospital. I’m delivering a bunch of paintings to a gallery tomorrow morning and need to package the artwork - agreed that I’d skip this trip since we’re hosting his whole family for a party here next weekend. Kids weren’t out of bed. I got them up, hurried them along, made their breakfast. All was relatively good. But h was getting anxious about being on time. I suggested- you can always call and say I’ll be a 1/2 hour later. Move everything back 1/2 hour. Come home a 1/2 later. It’s all ok. Or suggest meeting your mom at the hospital to visit her husband and make 2 visits out of the 3? No. His mom needs a social visit away from the hospital to relax. Ok. Your choice. But then as I was brushing the girls hair, getting their things together for the car, drawings for Opa, etc. h gets very agitated. “I’m leaving NOW. You can do whatever you want with the kids.” I’m like “What? That’s a strange reaction. What do you mean by that?” He blusters out the door. I hurry the kids into the car and he peels out of the driveway. <sigh> Again and again and again, I relate a different story, different details, same exact theme. I’m getting stuck here. I know something is off. I know because I feel agitated. Guilty but angry that I’m made to feel guilty. The ‘waking up’ part of me is saying “hey! Red flag! Take notice” but I’m still struggling to really see the dynamic clearly. I’m going to get another silent treatment. I know it. I don’t know if it’s a reaction to being closer over the last few days. I don’t know if it’s the stress of visiting his narcissistic mom and dealing with her crazy since her husband is sick with an uncertain prognosis. He’s got to reach deep to be supportive. I don’t think it comes naturally to him. Is it just being 9 minutes later out the door than he intended that got under his skin? If that’s what set him off than perhaps he should have made sure the kids were out of bed earlier, backed me up when I wanted to send them to bed on time rather than letting them stay up late. I’ve got to figure out what’s going with me when I shoulder all the blame for his upset. There’s a glitch in the system there. I could have written the first line of your post myself this weekend. We had another bullshit fight over nothing again to start the weekend. What joy. The details are different of course but this gets to be such a sickening pattern. I got the silent treatment, never an apology, and though I just took the guff without retaliating for her insults, I so wanted to. So wanted to. I hope you are doing better in your relationship to start the week. I think maybe it’s a distancing tactic. What do you think? The big question is Why do we put up with it?! Why do we learn to make do with the crap hand we’re dealt? Geez! We even choose our hand. I think that’s part of my deal. I chose this. I chose him. Did your parents often use the phrase, “you made your bed. Now you need to lie in it.” ?
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Post by johnwyo1 on Apr 2, 2018 5:05:02 GMT -5
I could have written the first line of your post myself this weekend. We had another bullshit fight over nothing again to start the weekend. What joy. The details are different of course but this gets to be such a sickening pattern. I got the silent treatment, never an apology, and though I just took the guff without retaliating for her insults, I so wanted to. So wanted to. I hope you are doing better in your relationship to start the week. I think maybe it’s a distancing tactic. What do you think? The big question is Why do we put up with it?! Why do we learn to make do with the crap hand we’re dealt? Geez! We even choose our hand. I think that’s part of my deal. I chose this. I chose him. Did your parents often use the phrase, “you made your bed. Now you need to lie in it.” ? Well, even if we made the bed, we can often choose not to lie in it, especially with someone who continues to be mean and angry. There's nothing good about bed with someone who creates fights with us that shouldn't happen. I do think it can be a distancing technique. My wife also has mood problems and is on meds for some of those issues. I don't know why we learn to make do with the crap we are handed but I know in my case I learned to deal with it stoically by being around my mother. I am like you, too, in that I made a commitment and decided to be in the relationship and feel I should honor my vows. I chose her. I wouldn't make the same choice again but I believe in being a man of my word even when she is like this with the fighting and distancing and no sex hardly ever.
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Post by h on Apr 2, 2018 5:51:28 GMT -5
Oh Dear. Here we go again. Another bullshit fight over nothing. And things had been going so well. This time the argument was about the kids being ready ‘on time’ to go with h to visit his father, mother, and then with his mother to his step dad in the hospital. I’m delivering a bunch of paintings to a gallery tomorrow morning and need to package the artwork - agreed that I’d skip this trip since we’re hosting his whole family for a party here next weekend. Kids weren’t out of bed. I got them up, hurried them along, made their breakfast. All was relatively good. But h was getting anxious about being on time. I suggested- you can always call and say I’ll be a 1/2 hour later. Move everything back 1/2 hour. Come home a 1/2 later. It’s all ok. Or suggest meeting your mom at the hospital to visit her husband and make 2 visits out of the 3? No. His mom needs a social visit away from the hospital to relax. Ok. Your choice. But then as I was brushing the girls hair, getting their things together for the car, drawings for Opa, etc. h gets very agitated. “I’m leaving NOW. You can do whatever you want with the kids.” I’m like “What? That’s a strange reaction. What do you mean by that?” He blusters out the door. I hurry the kids into the car and he peels out of the driveway. <sigh> Again and again and again, I relate a different story, different details, same exact theme. I’m getting stuck here. I know something is off. I know because I feel agitated. Guilty but angry that I’m made to feel guilty. The ‘waking up’ part of me is saying “hey! Red flag! Take notice” but I’m still struggling to really see the dynamic clearly. I’m going to get another silent treatment. I know it. I don’t know if it’s a reaction to being closer over the last few days. I don’t know if it’s the stress of visiting his narcissistic mom and dealing with her crazy since her husband is sick with an uncertain prognosis. He’s got to reach deep to be supportive. I don’t think it comes naturally to him. Is it just being 9 minutes later out the door than he intended that got under his skin? If that’s what set him off than perhaps he should have made sure the kids were out of bed earlier, backed me up when I wanted to send them to bed on time rather than letting them stay up late. I’ve got to figure out what’s going with me when I shoulder all the blame for his upset. There’s a glitch in the system there. They're not just your kids. They're his kids too. If he's unhappy with how quickly they get ready, it is perfectly within his power to do something about it. Blaming you IS a bullshit move and you should call him out for it. You have been forceful with him recently and he is probably just pushing back to the status quo. Don't let him bully you into accepting blame for his lack of parenting.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 2, 2018 6:20:19 GMT -5
“Kids weren’t out of bed. I got them up, hurried them along, made their breakfast. All was relatively good. But h was getting anxious about being on time. I suggested- you can always call and say I’ll be a 1/2 hour later. Move everything back 1/2 hour. Come home a 1/2 later. It’s all ok. Or suggest meeting your mom at the hospital to visit her husband and make 2 visits out of the 3? No. His mom needs a social visit away from the hospital to relax. Ok. Your choice. “
The problem is that you were taking responsibility for his paternal duty. If he wants to take his kids to see his parents and you aren’t going, it should be his responsibility to get them up and ready. He shouldnt be just waiting for you to get the kids ready. You aren’t a slave or the nanny. If you had the time to help him get the kids ready, that would be a kindness but not required.
If both of you were taking the kids, it would be both of your responsibilities.
As for his not talking to you, that’s unacceptable asshole behavior. It’s stonewalling, one of what marriage researcher John Gottman refers to as the Four Horsemen that predict divorce within 5 years.
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Post by greatcoastal on Apr 2, 2018 6:59:06 GMT -5
I see a whole lot of giving on your part and very little recieving.
You went above and beyond your responsibilities and duty with getting the kids ready.
What did he do? He took a very passive aggressive approach.
He stood back (passive-zero communication) then, right up until the last minute,he took a cowardly ,agressive approach by reversing all the blame on you, and leaving.
More DARVO.
Sadly, it sounds to me like you where bought and paid for with his 3 days of love bombing. Now it's right back to him puting himself back up on his pedestal.
Are you afraid of that feeling of being loved, desired, cherished and most of all, respected, is already gone?
You're already asking"why"? And blaming yourself, aren't you?
It sounds like another nail in the coffin.
Fear not my friend! There is possitve in all this! You have the freedom to step back, take a deep breath and tell your self "this is another fine example that this is not my problem. It's his".
You can try the boundaries and communication, but what good will it do? You will be facing rejection, humiliation, and more control by someone who is not going to give up his control due to his own fears and years of powerful manipulation tactics.
Keep focused on your exit plan.
To thine own self be true! ( for you and your family)
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Post by bballgirl on Apr 2, 2018 7:03:37 GMT -5
Oh Dear. Here we go again. Another bullshit fight over nothing. And things had been going so well. This time the argument was about the kids being ready ‘on time’ to go with h to visit his father, mother, and then with his mother to his step dad in the hospital. I’m delivering a bunch of paintings to a gallery tomorrow morning and need to package the artwork - agreed that I’d skip this trip since we’re hosting his whole family for a party here next weekend. Kids weren’t out of bed. I got them up, hurried them along, made their breakfast. All was relatively good. But h was getting anxious about being on time. I suggested- you can always call and say I’ll be a 1/2 hour later. Move everything back 1/2 hour. Come home a 1/2 later. It’s all ok. Or suggest meeting your mom at the hospital to visit her husband and make 2 visits out of the 3? No. His mom needs a social visit away from the hospital to relax. Ok. Your choice. But then as I was brushing the girls hair, getting their things together for the car, drawings for Opa, etc. h gets very agitated. “I’m leaving NOW. You can do whatever you want with the kids.” I’m like “What? That’s a strange reaction. What do you mean by that?” He blusters out the door. I hurry the kids into the car and he peels out of the driveway. <sigh> Again and again and again, I relate a different story, different details, same exact theme. I’m getting stuck here. I know something is off. I know because I feel agitated. Guilty but angry that I’m made to feel guilty. The ‘waking up’ part of me is saying “hey! Red flag! Take notice” but I’m still struggling to really see the dynamic clearly. I’m going to get another silent treatment. I know it. I don’t know if it’s a reaction to being closer over the last few days. I don’t know if it’s the stress of visiting his narcissistic mom and dealing with her crazy since her husband is sick with an uncertain prognosis. He’s got to reach deep to be supportive. I don’t think it comes naturally to him. Is it just being 9 minutes later out the door than he intended that got under his skin? If that’s what set him off than perhaps he should have made sure the kids were out of bed earlier, backed me up when I wanted to send them to bed on time rather than letting them stay up late. I’ve got to figure out what’s going with me when I shoulder all the blame for his upset. There’s a glitch in the system there. I agree with that about shouldering the blame if that's what you are doing. As well you need to learn to defend yourself and put your H in his place. As well I do not recommend that you do that in front of the children because if you call him an asshole then probably not good for your kids to observe. I understand that the circumstances of you having your own commitment left you at his mercy to have the kids taken care of and to go along with him but eventually the kids get older and they can stay home alone. However I know that's not the real issue here. I would definitely address the situation here with him and he owes you an apology. For someone who is trying to keep his wife from divorcing him - he may be book smart but he is an idiot. A selfish idiot. People treat us the way we allow them to treat us. I would have told him all that you did do (waking kids up, hair, breakfast, etc.) If he needed the kids sooner then he should have helped out like a parent. With that attitude he will see his children every other weekend and then all responsibility will be on him and that is his choice. So he better wake up and realize all that he has to lose. I'm back with my ex after being divorced 2 years and he acknowledged and spoke about the mistakes he made, and that he's learned from them in front of the kids and I a couple of weeks ago. It was very emotional. If I didn't divorce him neither one of us would be where we are today. I'm not saying divorce is what is right for you right now but perhaps in time a separation so he can see what his life will be like with his family broken up. Sex is the least of your issues with him. He's an asshole and I wouldn't want sex with an asshole anyway. He better treat you better and apologize. You need to call him out on his shit behavior. Bottom line - poor behavior has consequences. For my spouse - his poor behavior means he no longer has the privilege of me being his wife.
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Post by greatcoastal on Apr 2, 2018 7:18:59 GMT -5
So you're hosting another party next weekend?
Suppose you up and used his own words "I'm leaving, you finish getting the kids and the party ready!"
You could throw his double standards right back at him and watch him collapse like a house of cards.
Pick more of his methods " that's not my concern, that's not my problem" ( or whatever insults he has used on you) then get in YOUR car and peel out the driveway.
Send him an email hours later telling him " just following your lead, I learned from the best 😒"
Then have a good "what have I done!" Cry. Knowing that you took a big step forward and you never want to be like that! Norshould you or the family put up with it...ever again.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 2, 2018 7:44:12 GMT -5
Based on this thread, your husband’s pattern now is to get close after you put your foot down. Then, after some closeness, he manufactures an argument and an excuse to give you the silent, unaffectionate treatment.
Now you are yet again wounded and preparing to do the hard work of confronting him. Seems like you are doing a lot of hard work in this marriage. It’s not normal to have to work and suffer so much in order to get laid or treated with respect and kindness.
If you keep giving your all to save this dysfunctional marriage, you may wake up and realize you have nothing left for yourself. Also, your husband’s dysfunctional behavior is teaching your kids how to treat you and what to do and expect in their own relationships.
Can you truthfully call your husband on his stonewalling treatment and tell him that if there’s a repeat, the marriage is over? His behavior is unacceptable, controlling and cruel. It also is within his control. Giving your all would be drawing that line and maintaining it. You can never have the marriage you want if he keeps stonewalling.
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Post by shamwow on Apr 2, 2018 7:45:56 GMT -5
So you're hosting another party next weekend? Suppose you up and used his own words "I'm leaving, you finish getting the kids and the party ready!" You could throw his double standards right back at him and watch him collapse like a house of cards. Pick more of his methods " that's not my concern, that's not my problem" ( or whatever insults he has used on you) then get in YOUR car and peel out the driveway. Send him an email hours later telling him " just following your lead, I learned from the best 😒" Then have a good "what have I done!" Cry. Knowing that you took a big step forward and you never want to be like that! Norshould you or the family put up with it...ever again. Respectfully I disagree. Tit for tat just escalates with no real change. It may feel good for a little while but that fades quickly. Figure out what you want. Figure out whether you can get it in your current situation. If not figure out what needs to change. Then make the changes. This does not mean throwing your hands and saying fuck it. It doesn't mean throwing a party into turmoil. It does mean redefining the terms of the relationship. Next party, before you agree to host spell out for him EXACTLY what his responsibilities are for it and what yours are. Next time the kids need to be ready, give him some responsibility. If he falls flat on his face, it is good for him. He may appreciate you more the next time. If it doesn't, it will prepare him for a possible time where he has ALL the responsibility for the kids every other weekend. And that's also good for him and the kids. But tit for tat? That's a losing game for everyone. Edit: Please do not read this to mean I don't like tits. I like them a lot.
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Post by elynne on Apr 2, 2018 7:50:44 GMT -5
So you're hosting another party next weekend? Suppose you up and used his own words "I'm leaving, you finish getting the kids and the party ready!" You could throw his double standards right back at him and watch him collapse like a house of cards. Pick more of his methods " that's not my concern, that's not my problem" ( or whatever insults he has used on you) then get in YOUR car and peel out the driveway. Send him an email hours later telling him " just following your lead, I learned from the best 😒" Then have a good "what have I done!" Cry. Knowing that you took a big step forward and you never want to be like that! Norshould you or the family put up with it...ever again. Respectfully I disagree. Tit for tat just escalates with no real change. It may feel good for a little while but that fades quickly. Figure out what you want. Figure out whether you can get it in your current situation. If not make changes. Then make the changes. This does not mean throwing your hands and saying fuck it. It doesn't mean throwing a party into turmoil. It does mean reducing the terms of the relationship. Next party, before you agree to host spell out for him EXACTLY what his responsibilities are for it and what yours are. Next time the kids need to be ready, give him some responsibility. If he falls flat on his face, it is good for him. He may appreciate you more the next time. If it doesn't, it will prepare him for a possible time where he has ALL the responsibility for the kids every other weekend. And that's also good for him and the kids. But tit for tat? That's a losing game for everyone. Edit: Please do not read this to mean I don't like tits. I like them a lot. I whole heartedly agree. Except (meh) tits - I could take ‘em or leave ‘em. Though I’m all for appreciating beauty wherever we find it!
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Post by elynne on Apr 2, 2018 7:56:25 GMT -5
Based on this thread, your husband’s pattern now is to get close after you put your foot down. Then, after some closeness, he manufactures an argument and an excuse to give you the silent, unaffectionate treatment. Now you are yet again wounded and preparing to do the hard work of confronting him. Seems like you are doing a lot of hard work in this marriage. It’s not normal to have to work and suffer so much in order to get laid or treated with respect and kindness. If you keep giving your all to save this dysfunctional marriage, you may wake up and realize you have nothing left for yourself. Also, your husband’s dysfunctional behavior is teaching your kids how to treat you and what to do and expect in their own relationships. Can you truthfully call your husband on his stonewalling treatment and tell him that if there’s a repeat, the marriage is over? His behavior is unacceptable, controlling and cruel. It also is within his control. Giving your all would be drawing that line and maintaining it. You can never have the marriage you want if he keeps stonewalling. My therapist and you are on the same page! She asks me, “It seems like you do all the heavy lifting in the relationship. You deal with his bad behavior. You work to understand it. You explain it all, work through it. Neatly package the tools and methods for handling it. Gift wrap it. Put a bow on it. And then wait to see if he’ll do a small piece of the relationship work.” He’s apologized for his outburst this morning. Said it was directed at the kids instead of me. I’m not quite buying it. He told me that I misunderstood. It’s possible. I may well be too sensitive to his moods and willingly accept to much of the blame. I don’t know.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 2, 2018 7:56:45 GMT -5
I agree with the below. Tit for tat is childish. Shared responsibility is the adult way to handle things, and that should be determined and discussed in advance. And don’t jump in and save him if he doesn’t follow through. Indeed, he may “forget” or deliberately act incompetent or like he needs to have you explain every step. He is an adult so expect him to be able to do adult responsibilities. This also means you need to accept that his way of doing things may differ from your way but still be fine.
Making these party plans would be something you could work on in your marital counseling.
“Respectfully I disagree. Tit for tat just escalates with no real change. It may feel good for a little while but that fades quickly.
Figure out what you want. Figure out whether you can get it in your current situation. If not make changes. Then make the changes.
This does not mean throwing your hands and saying fuck it. It doesn't mean throwing a party into turmoil. It does mean reducing the terms of the relationship.
Next party, before you agree to host spell out for him EXACTLY what his responsibilities are for it and what yours are. Next time the kids need to be ready, give him some responsibility. If he falls flat on his face, it is good for him. He may appreciate you more the next time. ”
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Post by greatcoastal on Apr 2, 2018 7:57:25 GMT -5
These aren't just fights about nothing.
They may seem like that on the surface, but there's normally a whole lot more going on isn't there?
Fortunately you are beginning to see the red flags.
I'll share an example with you. (Condensed version) My ex leaves closed doors wide open . I call her name, and tell her " she needs to shut the door". She said " you need to come speak to me, I can't hear you."
I reply, "since you responded you heard me just fine".
What does she do an hour later? She sits in her recliner -in the back of our large house- and calls for our daughter!
So many f#@§ double standards!
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Reset?
Apr 2, 2018 8:04:04 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by shamwow on Apr 2, 2018 8:04:04 GMT -5
I agree with the below. Tit for tat is childish. Shared responsibility is the adult way to handle things, and that should be determined and discussed in advance. And don’t jump in and save him if he doesn’t follow through. Indeed, he may “forget” or deliberately act incompetent or like he needs to have you explain every step. He is an adult so expect him to be able to do adult responsibilities. This also means you need to accept that his way of doing things may differ from your way but still be fine. Making these party plans would be something you could work on in your marital counseling. “Respectfully I disagree. Tit for tat just escalates with no real change. It may feel good for a little while but that fades quickly. Figure out what you want. Figure out whether you can get it in your current situation. If not make changes. Then make the changes. This does not mean throwing your hands and saying fuck it. It doesn't mean throwing a party into turmoil. It does mean reducing the terms of the relationship. Next party, before you agree to host spell out for him EXACTLY what his responsibilities are for it and what yours are. Next time the kids need to be ready, give him some responsibility. If he falls flat on his face, it is good for him. He may appreciate you more the next time. ” Good point about it meaning that sometimes you do things his way even if different than yours. The important thing is he do his part and it get done.
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