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Post by Dan on Feb 3, 2018 10:30:28 GMT -5
... people experience ‘desire’ in 2 different ways.... 1) Desire - Arousal - Orgasm - Resolution. Now I would say that every member in this forum is number 1. We desire sex first and foremost. This is also the way ‘most’ people tend to work as I understand. There is a different type of person though who works as follows: 2) Arousal - Desire - Orgasm - Resolution They only experience the desire when they become aroused. They generally refuse to participate in any activity that arouses them and leads to desire because everyone’s perception of the way sex works is wrong. Pretty much everyone is told that it works as number 1 shows. So how the fuck do you get someone who is a number 2 to agree to have sex with you? Especially when the people who are a number 2 are waiting around for the day that they feel desire. That day may never come or at least very rarely does. No.2’s misinterpret their lack of desire as being that they just don’t need or won’t enjoy sex. Holy crap. I've never seen this dichotomy described before... and it makes so much sense! I'm Type 1, my wife is Type 2. It explains why I was relegated to ALWAYS have the initiator role, as I had to arouse her first -- pushing through minor objections, accommodating her whims -- to get her to desire and orgasm. And the statement that Type 2's "misinterpret their lack of desire as being that they just don’t need or won’t enjoy sex" ALSO seem very accurate about my wife. If she could have relied on the intellect that "orgasm (his/mine) is good for me and good for my relationship" or just memory of "orgasm feels so damn good", then maybe she would have been better able to allow arousal to precede desire. Alas, the pattern of me initiating and "pushing through minor objections" became the primary way we experienced marital intimacy. It was minimally functional for -- oh -- the first two decades of our marriage or so. But I'm pretty done with it. (I'll be at three decades of marriage mark later this year.)
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Post by footballbat on Feb 3, 2018 11:09:20 GMT -5
Most sexless marriage issues are larger than the physical act of sex alone. Emotions, intimacy, connection and desire are just a few of the components that intermingled to make relationship dynamics. If one or more of these things change it impacts the others. Pressure implies that the act of sex will resolve other issues. Most commonly, it will not. If your SO is intimacy averse than forcing sex or sex through pressure will typically result in an unsatisfying encounter. Bad sex will not often lead to good sex. That's a great mistake to think this way Sex is a foundation. Intimacy is a roof. You don't put roof before foundation I suspect your judgement is fogged by resentment. You need to let it go before doing that You might have that backwords. Sex alone is a very shaky foundation. I have had great sex with many women I would not want as a life partner. I could have great sex with a prostitute but she is not getting a ring for her efforts. If your refuser cannot stand your touch, a "sex or else" enounter will most likely be an unpleasent event for them.
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Post by rejected101 on Feb 3, 2018 13:26:30 GMT -5
... people experience ‘desire’ in 2 different ways.... 1) Desire - Arousal - Orgasm - Resolution. Now I would say that every member in this forum is number 1. We desire sex first and foremost. This is also the way ‘most’ people tend to work as I understand. There is a different type of person though who works as follows: 2) Arousal - Desire - Orgasm - Resolution They only experience the desire when they become aroused. They generally refuse to participate in any activity that arouses them and leads to desire because everyone’s perception of the way sex works is wrong. Pretty much everyone is told that it works as number 1 shows. So how the fuck do you get someone who is a number 2 to agree to have sex with you? Especially when the people who are a number 2 are waiting around for the day that they feel desire. That day may never come or at least very rarely does. No.2’s misinterpret their lack of desire as being that they just don’t need or won’t enjoy sex. Holy crap. I've never seen this dichotomy described before... and it makes so much sense! I'm Type 1, my wife is Type 2. It explains why I was relegated to ALWAYS have the initiator role, as I had to arouse her first -- pushing through minor objections, accommodating her whims -- to get her to desire and orgasm. And the statement that Type 2's "misinterpret their lack of desire as being that they just don’t need or won’t enjoy sex" ALSO seem very accurate about my wife. If she could have relied on the intellect that "orgasm (his/mine) is good for me and good for my relationship" or just memory of "orgasm feels so damn good", then maybe she would have been better able to allow arousal to precede desire. Alas, the pattern of me initiating and "pushing through minor objections" became the primary way we experienced marital intimacy. It was minimally functional for -- oh -- the first two decades of our marriage or so. But I'm pretty done with it. (I'll be at three decades of marriage mark later this year.) My wife is type 2 undoubtedly with the exception of the fact that after 6,7,8 weeks of nothing she will feel a little itch to fuck and thus I get lucky (not always though). It will always be the same old fight though. Get someone to agree to have their pussy touched in order for them to experience the desire we need them to experience. My wife is to interested in the TV among other various things to let me touch her and we go back to that misinterpretation of how her body functions and also (crucially) that misunderstanding of what we were all taught when we were growing up.....don’t have sex unless ‘you’ want to.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 13:53:43 GMT -5
Congratulations manman for strong-arming your wife into fucking you once a week. No you are not physically holding a gun to her head but you ARE threatening and coercing her into doing what you want her to do. You are kidding yourself when you say you “put her in control” by giving her this ultimatum. What you have done is put her between a rock and a hard place and then patted yourself on the back for figuring out such an easy “solution”. But your method is void of any empathy for your wife. And your responses here also demonstrate a lack of empathy for all us “pathetic losers” who are in similar situations. My guess is that divorcing a man like you would cause your wife much more strife than to just grit her teeth and deal with doing something that “disgusts her” and then faking an orgasm once a week. If this truly feels like a happy resolution for you then enjoy that forced duty sex. But don’t berate the rest of us for not being content with lying to ourselves and accepting the same. choosinghappy drops the mic. Can I get an amen?!?!
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Post by obobfla on Feb 3, 2018 16:12:57 GMT -5
Since I had to deal with a mentally ill wife, I got a brief introduction into the LEAP method for dealing with conflict. I wonder how useful it would be with this one. Unfortunately, I never tried the LEAP method with my wife in regards to sex. I did in other matters. LEAP stands for “Listen, Empathize, Agree, and Partner.” It’s a method introduced by Dr. Xavier Amador to deal with mentally ill people who cannot acknowledge the reality in front of them. Basically, you have to acknowledge the sick person’s reality before that person can see yours. There is more about it here and other websites: ourhealthyminds.com/family-handbook/communication/Building-a-collaborative-relationship-leap.htmlI did not try and coerce my wife into sex, as I didn’t want it to be forced. I want to be wanted. But I probably should have voiced my needs a little more. Eventually, I gave up trying. I would not have tolerated a drug or an alcohol problem from her, but I tolerated this because she could not be on her own. I was stuck with her.
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Post by csl on Feb 3, 2018 16:23:16 GMT -5
... people experience ‘desire’ in 2 different ways.... 1) Desire - Arousal - Orgasm - Resolution. Now I would say that every member in this forum is number 1. We desire sex first and foremost. This is also the way ‘most’ people tend to work as I understand. There is a different type of person though who works as follows: 2) Arousal - Desire - Orgasm - Resolution They only experience the desire when they become aroused. They generally refuse to participate in any activity that arouses them and leads to desire because everyone’s perception of the way sex works is wrong. Pretty much everyone is told that it works as number 1 shows. So how the fuck do you get someone who is a number 2 to agree to have sex with you? Especially when the people who are a number 2 are waiting around for the day that they feel desire. That day may never come or at least very rarely does. No.2’s misinterpret their lack of desire as being that they just don’t need or won’t enjoy sex. Holy crap. I've never seen this dichotomy described before... and it makes so much sense! I'm Type 1, my wife is Type 2. Um... Desire and arousal?
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Post by Apocrypha on Feb 3, 2018 18:06:08 GMT -5
... people experience ‘desire’ in 2 different ways.... 1) Desire - Arousal - Orgasm - Resolution. Now I would say that every member in this forum is number 1. We desire sex first and foremost. This is also the way ‘most’ people tend to work as I understand. There is a different type of person though who works as follows: 2) Arousal - Desire - Orgasm - Resolution They only experience the desire when they become aroused. They generally refuse to participate in any activity that arouses them and leads to desire because everyone’s perception of the way sex works is wrong. Pretty much everyone is told that it works as number 1 shows. So how the fuck do you get someone who is a number 2 to agree to have sex with you? Especially when the people who are a number 2 are waiting around for the day that they feel desire. That day may never come or at least very rarely does. No.2’s misinterpret their lack of desire as being that they just don’t need or won’t enjoy sex. Holy crap. I've never seen this dichotomy described before... and it makes so much sense! I'm Type 1, my wife is Type 2. The practice of animal husbandry with horses and cows, involves stimulating the stallion or bull until it ejaculates to collect a sperm specimen for insemination. In cases of rape, women have been known to lubricate and men have been known to become erect. Sexual arousal is a biological response that can exist independently of desire, and even in spite of a total aversion to it, unless we are going to argue that horses are sexually attracted to humans. I eventually came to understand how this related to my sexual relationship with my wife, in which I misunderstood her sexual arousal and orgasm as being validation of her attraction for me, so clearly there was something screwed up with her sexuality that needed fixing. So much easier on my ego and her conscience than realizing that the problem was actually that she didn't desire me irrespective of my ability to rip an orgasm out of her if she acquiesced to my ministrations. I would agree in as much as the people in Type 2 might also think they just don't need or won't enjoy sex (especially if they pose their celibacy in the context of a monogamous relationship). But later, so often, with a different partner who they actually DO desire, they find that they desire that person and sex with them as much as anyone else.
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Post by Dan on Feb 3, 2018 22:50:58 GMT -5
Holy crap. I've never seen this dichotomy described before... and it makes so much sense! I'm Type 1, my wife is Type 2. Um... Desire and arousal? Missed that post: thanks for the pointer!
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Post by lwoetin on Feb 4, 2018 1:52:34 GMT -5
If it is working for him, it can work for another. And he is happy. The arrangement can survive indefinitely if she is happy. manman , is your wife happy? Would you care if she isn't? I agree this could be perfectly fine for him, his wife and others. It's a valid approach we need to have sex or else divorce but I believe it's more effective in a younger marriage. By the time I found EP my marriage was a shithole. I was married 18 years and finally came out of the fog. My H was not capable of giving me the enthusiastic sex that I wanted, nor did I want to be celibate. Threatening him with divorce or sex would have done nobody good in our marriage. So we got a divorce. Not to mention couples that are married 15 to 20 years, financially divorce is not always a practical solution if you still want to provide for your family, two households are more expensive than one. However if the marriage is newer or the relationship hasn't reached shithole status a threat of divorce vs frequent sex could be effective. The problem is by the time someone starts googling sexless marriage it's usually reached shithole status. Everyone is dealt a different hand in life, one should play their cards smart to maximize their happiness for themselves whatever that looks like and it's different for everyone. His approach is being taken as a threat, but he was open with his needs. I take it as a positive that he acted early before there is no chance for reconciliation. His wife has a choice. He has a choice. He can find someone else who desires sex. Both made a choice. As for pathetic, Ok, I confess. Here is my Valentine gift to my dear wife..... I t's from Awkward Styles and I'm using the pseudo-pressure approach to try to get inside her pants. We're no longer in the younger marriage category. bballgirl, I realize you are embracing a rather unique relationship status and so must I. If I hear rodents randying on my roof, that's probably a sign.
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Post by bballgirl on Feb 4, 2018 7:18:26 GMT -5
I agree this could be perfectly fine for him, his wife and others. It's a valid approach we need to have sex or else divorce but I believe it's more effective in a younger marriage. By the time I found EP my marriage was a shithole. I was married 18 years and finally came out of the fog. My H was not capable of giving me the enthusiastic sex that I wanted, nor did I want to be celibate. Threatening him with divorce or sex would have done nobody good in our marriage. So we got a divorce. Not to mention couples that are married 15 to 20 years, financially divorce is not always a practical solution if you still want to provide for your family, two households are more expensive than one. However if the marriage is newer or the relationship hasn't reached shithole status a threat of divorce vs frequent sex could be effective. The problem is by the time someone starts googling sexless marriage it's usually reached shithole status. Everyone is dealt a different hand in life, one should play their cards smart to maximize their happiness for themselves whatever that looks like and it's different for everyone. His approach is being taken as a threat, but he was open with his needs. I take it as a positive that he acted early before there is no chance for reconciliation. His wife has a choice. He has a choice. He can find someone else who desires sex. Both made a choice. As for pathetic, Ok, I confess. Here is my Valentine gift to my dear wife..... I t's from Awkward Styles and I'm using the pseudo-pressure approach to try to get inside her pants. We're no longer in the younger marriage category. bballgirl, I realize you are embracing a rather unique relationship status and so must I. If I hear rodents randying on my roof, that's probably a sign. I understand and it great that you keep trying. I was too passive early on. As far as the gift - not pathetic but cute and romantic!
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Post by northstarmom on Feb 4, 2018 9:11:46 GMT -5
I agree: soul mate shirts are cute and romantic. However, if I was a recipient, I'd assume everything was fine in my relationship. If you happen to be thinking that either sex improves or you divorce, she still may not realize the importance of sex to you and could feel shocked and hurt if a divorce ensues after you give her this.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2018 9:30:41 GMT -5
I love it @lwoetin. So sweet and romantic. I hope it works and she appreciates it. I personally would!
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Post by obobfla on Feb 4, 2018 9:47:58 GMT -5
It seems I read a post on this forum, and a song pops in my head:
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Post by petrushka on Feb 5, 2018 8:05:59 GMT -5
I am thrilled by the manman-method. Not.
Words that come to my mind are emotional blackmail, coercion, spousal abuse, bully. Certainly not words like respect, love, intimacy, passion.
You cannot coerce love, desire, intimacy. You just fucking can't. If you're happy with coerced sex, then that's .... um, ok for you, but is it ok for your bonded mate? It's not ok in my world; certainly not desirable. Worse than a shit sandwich.
Certainly wouldn't float my boat. Anger and despair are not the kind of passions I want to elicit.
And, to go on record here, I've come across men with "manman's" 'sensibilities'. I cut people like that out of my life. I have nothing to say to an emotional gamma-minus, nor do they have any relevant revelations for me, except that part of the 'human race' barely qualifies. They have an emetic effect on me, if anything.
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Post by baza on Feb 5, 2018 8:25:15 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind betting that - if the story has any credibility - the recipient of this "pressure strategy" would be quietly biding their time, consulting a lawyer, getting their exit strategy together, shoring up their support network and researching everything they can find about helping kids transition through a divorce. And, when the opportunity arises, pissing off, never to return.
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