|
Post by rejected101 on Feb 2, 2018 5:43:27 GMT -5
I think the reason no one does what you are saying manman is because they didn’t believe they would have to apply such pressure, nor should anyone have to. You make some interesting points though and they are not dissimilar to some of the ideas that my marriage councillor said. Indeed sex therapist - Michele Weiner-Davis has a motto and a message for the ‘low libido’ spouse which she stole from Nike - “just do it”. This motto is based on the idea that people experience ‘desire’ in 2 different ways.... 1) Desire - Arousal - Orgasm - Resolution. Now I would say that every member in this forum is number 1. We desire sex first and foremost. This is also the way ‘most’ people tend to work as I understand. There is a different type of person though who works as follows: 2) Arousal - Desire - Orgasm - Resolution They only experience the desire when they become aroused. They generally refuse to participate in any activity that arouses them and leads to desire because everyone’s perception of the way sex works is wrong. Pretty much everyone is told that it works as number 1 shows. So how the fuck do you get someone who is a number 2 to agree to have sex with you? Especially when the people who are a number 2 are waiting around for the day that they feel desire. That day may never come or at least very rarely does. No.2’s misinterpret their lack of desire as being that they just don’t need or won’t enjoy sex. Maybe you are on to something but it is quite difficult for anyone with a good heart and good morals to apply such a pressure without feeling a tremendous guilt which in my opinion is why most don’t do it. Not that I am judging you (I’m not), if you can apply such pressure without the guilt, good for you!!!
|
|
|
Post by rejected101 on Feb 2, 2018 5:45:55 GMT -5
YouTube video - Michele Weiner-Davis, “the sex starved marriage” which she explains her professional opinions in further detail.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 7:21:09 GMT -5
it must be like a job - miss it and you're fired. You must put it blatanly before your partner if your partner refuse - you have nothing to talk about and you're free and do whatever you want - divorce or move to a spare room, stop talking - whatever now how many of you did it? if not why? I don't see any reason why you havent' done it yet if you suffer in sexless marriage I think many, even most of us have tried a variety of pressure methods. You can treat it like a job, but what if the employee doesn’t come to work? I personally recommended the “calendar” method many times, to no avail. If a refuser doesn’t want sex, they’ll find a way to get out of it (too tired, too drunk, too bored, too busy, too whatever). The sad truth is that most of us have been down every possible road only to be met by a dead end each time. Many of us are already sleeping in spare bedrooms or on couches. I am staying until I can get myself in a better financial position and I also stay for the kids. It’s a valid choice, but we do seem to have divided camps here. Some who’ve left get very vocal about their choice. But each of us has their own path through this madness. I take the support that I find here and leave the rest. I’m on a journey. And one reason I stick around is to watch others on the same journey.
|
|
|
Post by worksforme2 on Feb 2, 2018 8:52:36 GMT -5
I have to imagine the sex you are getting is pretty bland. Mostly of the starfish variety. If one has to strong arm their spouse into sex I should think it's probably pretty mechanical on her part. That wouldn't be very satisfying for me. Coercion was a topic that made it's way through the forum a short time back. Most folks stated they wouldn't want it, instead preferring an intimate connection. I can see your approach working if the other person prefers the marriage to divorce, but that is a calculation that could change as the dynamics of the situation change. Periodically one reads about a woman killing her husband and defending her actions due to long term emotional and /or physical abuse. Do you suppose your approach to insuring sex in the relationship could meet the criteria for said defense?
|
|
|
Post by bballgirl on Feb 2, 2018 8:58:19 GMT -5
I'm not interested in sex with someone I have to pressure to have it with me. I only want sex with someone that wants and desires me.
|
|
|
Post by ihadalove on Feb 2, 2018 9:34:45 GMT -5
I've applied plenty of pressure. I'm not afraid to speak up when I'm unhappy. This doesn't necessarily fix anything though. The whole scheduling thing is rejected outright in my situation. It's really about feeling the desire and spontaneity for me anyway, and you can't conjure that from pressure.
I don't think the method in the OP would work, it'll just lead to either following through with the divorce option or backing down and starting at square one.
|
|
|
Post by surfergirl on Feb 2, 2018 9:52:33 GMT -5
Regarding the scheduling-- I think everyone is viewing it through their own experience.
I think it could go either way. For a wife who is soft and kind and loves her husband, putting it on the calendar "to do" is a FANTASTIC idea. Because she loves and wants to please him, it works. She might have small children, and so yes, it needs to get re-prioritized. --that kind of scenario
Then there is the other kind, where most of us find ourselves. In fact, it's been pointed out many times that if you are googling "sexless marriage" and then created a user account, you have already tried begging, scheduling, pleading, cajoling, and --who said it?-- bacon scented candles.
|
|
|
Post by surfergirl on Feb 2, 2018 9:53:46 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but I need to credit the bacon scented candles. Whoever first wrote that needs attribution rights.
|
|
|
Post by footballbat on Feb 2, 2018 10:12:39 GMT -5
Most sexless marriage issues are larger than the physical act of sex alone. Emotions, intimacy, connection and desire are just a few of the components that intermingled to make relationship dynamics. If one or more of these things change it impacts the others. Pressure implies that the act of sex will resolve other issues. Most commonly, it will not. If your SO is intimacy averse than forcing sex or sex through pressure will typically result in an unsatisfying encounter. Bad sex will not often lead to good sex.
|
|
|
Post by Apocrypha on Feb 2, 2018 10:44:45 GMT -5
but it must be structured pressure - you must put it onto calendar and decide how often you do it - once a week, twice a week etc. and choose days it shouldnt be sex right away - you could just spend time naked and cuddle or shower together- but you definetely must be naked from the first day- although straight path to sex relatively qucikly should be outlined the most beatiful thing about this - although it's a long term pressure - it removes short term pressure and need to initiate. both of you know there are particular days and times you must be there for each other it must be like a job - miss it and you're fired. You must put it blatanly before your partner if your partner refuse - you have nothing to talk about and you're free and do whatever you want - divorce or move to a spare room, stop talking - whatever now how many of you did it? if not why? I don't see any reason why you havent' done it yet if you suffer in sexless marriage My ex-wife and I tried a version of this for a while during therapy. The therapist wasn't enthusiastic about it and neither was my wife. The problem isn't the absence of sex; it's that one partner does not desire sex with the other.You don't have sex "like a job". You can, but it will end up costing both of you rather than fulfilling you. It can even be weaponized to hurt you. In the tectonic scale of a marriage, endurance will run out if you view it as a life sentence. He said, "People always focus on the quantity of sex, putting it in a calendar and scheduling it, but never on the quality." I think by quality, he meant more than techniques in pleasuring, but rather was speaking broadly about how one feels about the sex overall. Having something on a calendar doesn't make a person look forward to it - especially if it's an unwanted thing. It adds obligation toward an unwanted thing and really focuses reflection on it (which might not be a bad thing in the larger sense if it brings the couple to an honest reading of their level of disconnection).
|
|
|
Post by Apocrypha on Feb 2, 2018 10:49:19 GMT -5
Regarding the scheduling-- I think everyone is viewing it through their own experience. If I think it could go either way. For a wife who is soft and kind and loves her husband, putting it on the calendar "to do" is a FANTASTIC idea. Because she loves and wants to please him, it works. She might have small children, and so yes, it needs to get re-prioritized. --that kind of scenario Then there is the other kind, where most of us find ourselves. In fact, it's been pointed out many times that if you are googling "sexless marriage" and then created a user account, you have already tried begging, scheduling, pleading, cajoling, and --who said it?-- bacon scented candles. If the sex is absent, the most likely cause is that one partner does not want it with the other partner. If they wanted it, they would seek it out or simply say "yes". So, scheduling sex ends up putting on a calendar a day in which they have agreed to have sex with a person they don't want to have sex with. They are agreeing to have unwanted sex. How well can anyone expect that to turn out across a year?
|
|
|
Post by rejected101 on Feb 2, 2018 10:49:20 GMT -5
Regarding the scheduling-- I think everyone is viewing it through their own experience. I think it could go either way. For a wife who is soft and kind and loves her husband, putting it on the calendar "to do" is a FANTASTIC idea. Because she loves and wants to please him, it works. She might have small children, and so yes, it needs to get re-prioritized. --that kind of scenario Then there is the other kind, where most of us find ourselves. In fact, it's been pointed out many times that if you are googling "sexless marriage" and then created a user account, you have already tried begging, scheduling, pleading, cajoling, and --who said it?-- bacon scented candles. I’m inclined to agree. My wife and I schedule dates! Because of our work commitments and children we can’t do those spontaneous date nights anymore. Why not sex. Why not have a ‘Sunday night is sex night’. At the very least, if you got refused all the time your spouse would see just how often they are prepared to refuse you.
|
|
|
Post by Apocrypha on Feb 2, 2018 11:16:56 GMT -5
Regarding the scheduling-- I think everyone is viewing it through their own experience. I think it could go either way. For a wife who is soft and kind and loves her husband, putting it on the calendar "to do" is a FANTASTIC idea. Because she loves and wants to please him, it works. She might have small children, and so yes, it needs to get re-prioritized. --that kind of scenario Then there is the other kind, where most of us find ourselves. In fact, it's been pointed out many times that if you are googling "sexless marriage" and then created a user account, you have already tried begging, scheduling, pleading, cajoling, and --who said it?-- bacon scented candles. I’m inclined to agree. My wife and I schedule dates! Because of our work commitments and children we can’t do those spontaneous date nights anymore. Why not sex. Why not have a ‘Sunday night is sex night’. At the very least, if you got refused all the time your spouse would see just how often they are prepared to refuse you. Dates involve external schedules and responsibilities. That's why we schedule those. Sex, when two people want it and live together under the same roof, and sleep in the same bed, is very easy to have between external responsilities. On your last point, I got tired of my wife gaslighting me by insisting she didn't say "no" or by having "good" reasons not to have sex. Being in the fog, I was unsure of myself, so I kept a calendar with an app. Because before/during/after her period was the most common excuse (effective for her, with me), I used an online fertility app with a calendar that I could write in, and made codes for every time I initiated sex, every time she did, every time she said yes (and relevant circumstances - during part of this we were in an open relationship), and every time she said no. I also made notes for any extremely good sex or harsh rebukes. I didn't change my rate of asking for sex to game the system, to my knowledge. I found a rejection rate of well over 30 to 1.. I found that close to 97% of my own sexual expression was masturbation, fantasizing about sex with my wife. I found that, for a time, the time she was most likely to say "yes" to me was shortly after she had already had sex with someone else, and gradually these times began to line up 1-1, until that too dropped to near zero again. I didn't bother showing any of this to her except when she lied to me about frequency again. I had been tracking for close to a year at that point. It was useful as a tool in preventing me from bullshitting myself about what was happening.
|
|
|
Post by ihadalove on Feb 2, 2018 11:30:47 GMT -5
Regarding the scheduling-- I think everyone is viewing it through their own experience. I think it could go either way. For a wife who is soft and kind and loves her husband, putting it on the calendar "to do" is a FANTASTIC idea. Because she loves and wants to please him, it works. She might have small children, and so yes, it needs to get re-prioritized. --that kind of scenario Then there is the other kind, where most of us find ourselves. In fact, it's been pointed out many times that if you are googling "sexless marriage" and then created a user account, you have already tried begging, scheduling, pleading, cajoling, and --who said it?-- bacon scented candles. I’m inclined to agree. My wife and I schedule dates! Because of our work commitments and children we can’t do those spontaneous date nights anymore. Why not sex. Why not have a ‘Sunday night is sex night’. At the very least, if you got refused all the time your spouse would see just how often they are prepared to refuse you. I know why. Scheduling works great for people who aren't having sex because they legitimately have trouble fitting it in. This would be the easiest type of sm to fix. I think it's why therapists suggest it, if it works then great! If it doesn't work then someone simply doesn't want it, or has other reservations. Mine won't because the anticipation acts as pressure for her, and that kills it before it starts. For me anticipation for that is awesome. If she told me something was going to happen 3 weeks in advance I'd be counting down the days!
|
|
|
Post by rejected101 on Feb 2, 2018 11:36:35 GMT -5
I’m inclined to agree. My wife and I schedule dates! Because of our work commitments and children we can’t do those spontaneous date nights anymore. Why not sex. Why not have a ‘Sunday night is sex night’. At the very least, if you got refused all the time your spouse would see just how often they are prepared to refuse you. Dates involve external schedules and responsibilities. That's why we schedule those. Sex, when two people want it and live together under the same roof, and sleep in the same bed, is very easy to have between external responsilities. On your last point, I got tired of my wife gaslighting me by insisting she didn't say "no" or by having "good" reasons not to have sex. Being in the fog, I was unsure of myself, so I kept a calendar with an app. Because before/during/after her period was the most common excuse (effective for her, with me), I used an online fertility app with a calendar that I could write in, and made codes for every time I initiated sex, every time she did, every time she said yes (and relevant circumstances - during part of this we were in an open relationship), and every time she said no. I also made notes for any extremely good sex or harsh rebukes. I didn't change my rate of asking for sex to game the system, to my knowledge. I found a rejection rate of well over 30 to 1.. I found that close to 97% of my own sexual expression was masturbation, fantasizing about sex with my wife. I found that, for a time, the time she was most likely to say "yes" to me was shortly after she had already had sex with someone else, and gradually these times began to line up 1-1, until that too dropped to near zero again. I didn't bother showing any of this to her except when she lied to me about frequency again. I had been tracking for close to a year at that point. It was useful as a tool in preventing me from bullshitting myself about what was happening. I totally agree in terms of scheduling dates requires forward thinking to manage the logistics. My main point though is, just because it is scheduled or planned, doesn’t mean the event suffers through a lack of spontaneity. Interesting data you provided there. Maybe you should have initiated sex 30 times per day? Your data also supports a previous post I listed which was that once you have sex, you are more likely to want it again after. The longer you go without it, the more likelihood you are going to become comfortable with it.
|
|