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Post by ihadalove on Feb 1, 2018 10:27:08 GMT -5
If it's clinical depression she probably wouldn't have any interest in anything at all. I went through it once, and when you're there you know you used to be happy but can't grasp what that would feel like. I couldn't help how I was feeling and it was scary, I got help immediately with support from my SO and family. On this side I can't imagine possibly feeling that way anymore, but I remember that doing anything seemed impossible.
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Post by northstarmom on Feb 1, 2018 10:37:15 GMT -5
“If it's clinical depression she probably wouldn't have any interest in anything at all. “
Not true. Please don’t try to diagnose her. Encourage him to get her to a doctor or therapist. As part of it, she needs a thorough medical work up because some diseases can lead to lack of energy. Addictions also can including prescription drug addiction.
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Post by doneanddone on Feb 1, 2018 11:00:26 GMT -5
doneandone Your thread has taken on quite the life here. With several themes considered - (messy house, depression, just lazy and indifferent, and how much you have enabled). I am confident you know many of us here are stuck in a quandary as to the action we really should take. We know logically. But we are here because there are so many moving parts in these emotionally charged cases and there appears to be just no way out. So many of us endure but have learned how to cope better and to adjust within our circumstances as a result of advice offered - advice based on experience and sometimes we get treated with sheer genius. To that, you are consistent but that's because your circumstance is consistent. My wife has been OCD for many years. She knows I abhor the sound of a vacuum cleaner running while I am home. She vacuums for "therapy" she says. I installed a central vacuum - quiet now. BUT she had made home life less than enjoyable for 2 decades as though life were all about, clean hands, clothes, vacuumed floors (not necessarily clean), dishes, folding clothes, etc. But she is so inefficient at these things, they became her whole life. To make this post useful, in 2014 I told her we all done with her meanness over not keeping a perfect house. That toys out of place were not a sign of disrespect just kids being kids and let's let the home be a more tranquil, enjoyable place. She capitulated. NOW however, she does let things go but not to your extent by any means. But I have taken over the role of co-managing this domestic stuff to a degree and I have become the enforcer but in my more mild and encouraging way where it is a team effort. In summary and where this may help you with your scene, I do not leave ANYTHING just to her anymore for her to fail at and then make me angry. Yes she is listless too often but admits she does not even know where to start often times with organizing, etc. She just has limited functionality that way. Even when she does, it takes her WAY too long and she lets everything else go as she cannot multi-task. I know she crosses through depression, indifference, confusion, etc. but I stopped being the pleaser for peace and I just do what needs done as though it is my house and even if she is that leach roomie sometimes. So do consider shocking her with taking charge of all of it, making things as YOU want them to be with your mind shift being "she is a relative" leaching off of you but you have to grin and bear it for a time. Pay for a cleaner to assist and put things together. Do some painting, etc. but make your house YOUR home. With that done, you have removed one of the themes in your S***hole. My advice - make it a mission - 2 weeks, Garage included. You may see her engage actually and take an interest in home-life again. You may not but you'll like the improvement. In your your case, this social media crap and going out, I know I could not tolerate AND be sexless. That is disrespect at one of it's highest levels. Her affairs are with all these distractions. But consider that these distractions also keep her from facing reality of home. She does not even know how to start as the task seems too big. But again, do not try to fix her all at one time. Fix the house first as that is the one thing in your total control. Be drastic. Again, she may begin showing an interest by something as subtle as telling you a paint color she likes when she sees you heading out to buy paint. Appreciate the comments..... Calming to read and comprehend. Thoughtful and with full experience as referenced. Thanks. This place, these forums....they are like therapy for me and venting, lashing out if people want to call it that, does help. I'd hate to think what could be if I didn't express myself in the way I do online is a place of anonymity.
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Post by doneanddone on Feb 1, 2018 11:04:28 GMT -5
If it's clinical depression she probably wouldn't have any interest in anything at all. I went through it once, and when you're there you know you used to be happy but can't grasp what that would feel like. I couldn't help how I was feeling and it was scary, I got help immediately with support from my SO and family. On this side I can't imagine possibly feeling that way anymore, but I remember that doing anything seemed impossible. That theme of not having interest in anything......couldn't get out of bed.......didn't feel anything for anyone.........so on so forth That's not where my W is at. She acts more like she is distracted with other things rather than being in the present and wanting to work on our issues together. Maybe she has stalled out in trying and just doesn't GAF anymore. But clinical depression, I can't see that being her issue. I've been around people who have had clinical depression or are going through clinical depression.....and I know no two people can exhibit the same signs and symptoms of the same condition but it just doesn't fit in my mind. It could and I would be shocked.....
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Post by doneanddone on Feb 1, 2018 11:06:38 GMT -5
“If it's clinical depression she probably wouldn't have any interest in anything at all. “ Not true. Please don’t try to diagnose her. Encourage him to get her to a doctor or therapist. As part of it, she needs a thorough medical work up because some diseases can lead to lack of energy. Addictions also can including prescription drug addiction. Appreciate the support....attempting to get her in to see or talk with someone other than me is probably where I'll start.
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Post by ihadalove on Feb 1, 2018 11:17:52 GMT -5
“If it's clinical depression she probably wouldn't have any interest in anything at all. “ Not true. Please don’t try to diagnose her. Encourage him to get her to a doctor or therapist. As part of it, she needs a thorough medical work up because some diseases can lead to lack of energy. Addictions also can including prescription drug addiction. I wouldn't dream of diagnosing anyone. However, it is considered one of the main symptoms (anhedonia). If you can get her in to see a physician doneanddone, they'll give her a symptom quiz to judge condition. This year, my Dr's office started giving this test to everyone at their physical. I know you're saying you don't think she has it, but it can't hurt to check it out; it can be very serious.
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Post by elkclan2 on Feb 1, 2018 15:46:16 GMT -5
"I have a difficult time believing someone who lives on their phone through social media, gossips with friends and about friends, watches reality TV on Bravo and Lifetime (I call that how to be a ho TV), drinks socially but more frequent, smokes cigs at a rate of almost a pack and half a day......I have a hard time thinking this person has clinical depression or is even depressed with their life vs. just being straight up lazy...."
That was EXACTLY what my depression looked like. Serious, clinical, diagnosed depression.
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Post by doneanddone on Feb 1, 2018 16:15:29 GMT -5
"I have a difficult time believing someone who lives on their phone through social media, gossips with friends and about friends, watches reality TV on Bravo and Lifetime (I call that how to be a ho TV), drinks socially but more frequent, smokes cigs at a rate of almost a pack and half a day......I have a hard time thinking this person has clinical depression or is even depressed with their life vs. just being straight up lazy...." That was EXACTLY what my depression looked like. Serious, clinical, diagnosed depression. Thanks for sharing.....I appreciate that.
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Post by elkclan2 on Feb 1, 2018 17:55:49 GMT -5
"I have a difficult time believing someone who lives on their phone through social media, gossips with friends and about friends, watches reality TV on Bravo and Lifetime (I call that how to be a ho TV), drinks socially but more frequent, smokes cigs at a rate of almost a pack and half a day......I have a hard time thinking this person has clinical depression or is even depressed with their life vs. just being straight up lazy...." That was EXACTLY what my depression looked like. Serious, clinical, diagnosed depression. Thanks for sharing.....I appreciate that. I watched crime tv though, true crime and old detective shows - that was my thing - and only a pack a day. :-) I even went out and had fun. Drank too much. But every day I thought about dying and wished I could. I had no purpose. I was miserable. And cleaning...phhht. I was very good at putting on a show. I'm sure my ex would have said I was lazy. Well, he did. He called me a leach. I'm the leach that supported him for years. Let me say something else about cleaning... my worthless SM ex never helped me with anything. Nothing. Did not do his share of the housework and childcare. Would not even watch the baby so I could have a shower. Eventually I stopped doing anything, too. I was like "what's the point"? And, not to my credit, it was a passive aggressive ploy, too. It was a death spiral. The house was a wreck. But on the other hand it kept him out of my space. I actually don't have high standards for housekeeping anyway and I really don't enjoy it and I don't get the little buzz of satisfaction from doing a housekeeping thing - even though I like a clean house, for sure. I'm probably ADD, undiagnosed, so I have trouble with organisation, prioritisation and completion anyway, so it's HARD for me. I have to work 10 times as hard to achieve half as much on that front. When I was depressed as well, I just didn't have the energy to put in that extra work for half the result. I have a partner now who HELPS me. He helps me keep my house clean. We do it together. When he sees me getting overwhelmed, he stops and redirects me. It's not laziness on my part, I really get overwhelmed. He helps me re-focus and then I'm right back working. I help him tidy and clean his house, too. I do 90% of the cooking (I'm great at that and I enjoy it) and I do other stuff.
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Post by saarinista on Feb 3, 2018 2:20:03 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing.....I appreciate that. I watched crime tv though, true crime and old detective shows - that was my thing - and only a pack a day. :-) I even went out and had fun. Drank too much. But every day I thought about dying and wished I could. I had no purpose. I was miserable. And cleaning...phhht. I was very good at putting on a show. I'm sure my ex would have said I was lazy. Well, he did. He called me a leach. I'm the leach that supported him for years. Let me say something else about cleaning... my worthless SM ex never helped me with anything. Nothing. Did not do his share of the housework and childcare. Would not even watch the baby so I could have a shower. Eventually I stopped doing anything, too. I was like "what's the point"? And, not to my credit, it was a passive aggressive ploy, too. It was a death spiral. The house was a wreck. But on the other hand it kept him out of my space. I actually don't have high standards for housekeeping anyway and I really don't enjoy it and I don't get the little buzz of satisfaction from doing a housekeeping thing - even though I like a clean house, for sure. I'm probably ADD, undiagnosed, so I have trouble with organisation, prioritisation and completion anyway, so it's HARD for me. I have to work 10 times as hard to achieve half as much on that front. When I was depressed as well, I just didn't have the energy to put in that extra work for half the result. I have a partner now who HELPS me. He helps me keep my house clean. We do it together. When he sees me getting overwhelmed, he stops and redirects me. It's not laziness on my part, I really get overwhelmed. He helps me re-focus and then I'm right back working. I help him tidy and clean his house, too. I do 90% of the cooking (I'm great at that and I enjoy it) and I do other stuff. Your point about the benefits of making cleaning up a partnership is well taken, elkclan2 It makes a huge difference in my energy for cleaning the house when my h and I can work on cleaning projects with some plan-he does this, I do that, etc. Even though the OP works outside the home more, W does work plus child care. Regardless, having a joint plan and buy in never hurts. Also, FWIW, I have ADHD (diagnosed, treated) as well as depression (ditto). People who are not good with cleaning and organizing sometimes have both. Something to consider. ADHD treatment can make a huge difference.
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Post by Dan on Feb 3, 2018 10:36:21 GMT -5
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Post by shamwow on Feb 3, 2018 11:06:49 GMT -5
Got a problem.....duh that's why I'm here. Not only is my problem a SM but I am now starting to question whether or not my W is a lazy ass POS. We've been sexless now for 7 years, the exact age of our daughter, go figure. I've gone through the list of reasons for our SM so not gonna go there but now it's on another level. The W works 3 days a week, that's 24 hours Mon, Tues, Wed. She has a 4 day weekend every week. (back story) Since the first day our daughter was taken to daycare when she was literally 7 months old...... the agreement we both made with each other as brand new parents was I would take her to daycare/school on Mondays and pick her up from daycare/school on Wednesdays. Leaving my W to take her on Tues, Wed, Thurs, and Fri as well as pick her up on those days EXCEPT Wed that's my day to get her. Remember the W only works M,T, W so you would think that taking her and picking her up on Thurs and Fri wouldn't be that big of a deal since oh yeah she isn't fucking working those days. Does anyone here have a spouse that they are questioning is lazy? My W doesn't do shit on her 4 days off. She may do some laundry but by the time I get home on those days it's still piled up in the basket waiting to be folded and put away. She has maybe vacuumed the floors maybe 5 times in the 15 years we've lived in our home. Don't start with me and sweeping the stairs. We have hard wood stairs and hard wood floors in the basement. I on purpose have not touched them with a broom in 6 months to see if she would eventually grow disgusted with the build up of dirt and dust......she hasn't batted an eye at them. We have a cat that is older than dirt that hacks up fur balls and pukes all over the place, in closets, under beds, in the kitchen.....she leaves it there.....walks right past it to go out to the screen deck to smoke her cigs every morning. The fucking liter box is the bane of my existence......I love animals but want this one to go away. She'll wash dishes and leave them in the sink for weeks on end and if the dish washer is full, she leaves them for weeks as well. She takes the trash bag out of the trash can and walks 3 feet, opens the back door and puts trash bags on the deck. Am I being to harsh...... Is she lazy if my description is on point? I guarantee she is doing something (Facebook, romance novels, television, etc). She simply isn't doing anything productive to hold up her end of the bargain. I used to work 2-3 jobs and would have to go out and buy new underwear because several weeks of dirty laundry was sitting there while my stay at home mom ex wife did SOMETHING (see above list). it would only get done when I started doing it and she joined in to "help". Edit: Please don't mistake me and think I'm saying housework is "woman's work". What I'm saying is that we had an agreement I would work my ass off outside the home and she would take care of the kids and the home. My complaint was when the stay at home mom has high school aged kids out of the home all day and these conditions persist. Broken agreement. Not "woman's work"
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Post by ironhamster on Feb 3, 2018 21:30:18 GMT -5
Lazy? Stacks of dirty dishes, stacks of clean dishes, stacks and hampers of laundry, every table, counter, and flat space covered with something, storage tubs full of deferred decisions,... I don't know. What do you think?
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Post by shamwow on Feb 3, 2018 21:33:05 GMT -5
Lazy? Stacks of dirty dishes, stacks of clean dishes, stacks and hampers of laundry, every table, counter, and flat space covered with something, storage tubs full of deferred decisions,... I don't know. What do you think? Well mine kept the house where my son and I had to go with fly swatters and kill over 400 flies (we counted). This happened several times.
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Post by ironhamster on Feb 3, 2018 21:35:41 GMT -5
Lazy? Stacks of dirty dishes, stacks of clean dishes, stacks and hampers of laundry, every table, counter, and flat space covered with something, storage tubs full of deferred decisions,... I don't know. What do you think? Well mine kept the house where my son and I had to go with fly swatters and kill over 400 flies (we counted). This happened several times. Woah. I could have gone on with my list but, four hundred flies has me beat. That must be some serious shit.
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