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Post by obobfla on Jan 31, 2018 17:57:43 GMT -5
I doubt simply cleaning the house is going to fix this. I agree but it's an idea to start with AFTER a conversation to try to get her to go to a therapist to get help. Cleaning the house will show her what is possible. I’m no professional, but she does sound severely depressed to me. When I was severely depressed, I could not conceive of being able to fix my life or even be happy. I knew in my head I was happy once, but I could not recall the feeling. It had to be made real again for me. I got my wife to therapy with one foolproof technique. I said she either goes, or I leave. She went to therapy. Depression is an illness, just like diabetes, which I have. It’s not your wife’s fault that she is depressed. It may be my fault I have diabetes, but it’s not going away now, so I don’t blame me. However, I have to test myself, take my meds, and watch what I eat. It’s my responsibility to treat my illness, and it’s her responsibility to treat her depression. Watch your pronouns when you talk to her. Pronouns are very important. Say something like this: You are not getting stuff done. It appears that you may be depressed, which may be why you are lacking motivation to clean the house. I cannot live with the house in this condition, and I do not have the energy to clean it myself and work a full time job. Therefore, I need you to see if you have a health problem such as depression preventing you from being motivated. Depression is a deadly disease, and if you have it you need to treat it. If you do not go to a doctor and have it checked out, then I will leave. I cannot force you, but I don’t have to tolerate living like this. I don’t want a messy house, and I don’t want to come home to see you dead by suicide. You need to have it checked out for your sake. It’s your choice. Be ready to back it up. But if she goes, stick with her as long as you can. I know from personal experience that depression is not easily overcome. My wife had worse, and I stayed with her. My wife took her drugs and went to her doctors. She gave me permission to talk to her doctors, so I could be part of the solution. If she did not, I would have left her long ago.
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Post by wewbwb on Jan 31, 2018 18:05:25 GMT -5
Or a rock. There really is no "right" answer here. (Sorry, I'm in one of those moods.) Or a hand grenade. "Sure, she's willing to jump on that! But not my erection? "
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Post by WindSister on Jan 31, 2018 18:50:37 GMT -5
You already received all the comments you need, I am sure, but I feel compelled to at least say this.... I get it. It royally sucks when one spouse is checked out (I know Elle owns that phrase...lol). Whatever the reason, she is clearly more interested in ignoring and avoiding life by what you have shared, instead of living it.
I say approach it like Ob said. Perfect words there!
Then, in the end know you cannot change someone else. Take control of what you can (yourself) and start living how YOU want to live. Your wife will either join you or not, but at least you are living. It makes leaving easier, too, when they CHOOSE not to join you.
It is hard to live with someone who is not personally responsible.
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appleaday
Junior Member
Posts: 95
Age Range: 36-40
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Post by appleaday on Jan 31, 2018 19:07:37 GMT -5
I finding it very telling that she considers nothing hers. You bought your house together after marriage or before? I see her car was purchased after marriage. I'm not sure where you are but anything bought during the marriage should belong to both spouses, regardless of whose name it is under. Why does she feel this way? Have you talked about that at all?
I see here that we are often quick to conclude that our partners are manipulating us and I suggest that there are other possibilities. Her behavior may not be conscious. She may resent that she is not represented fully in the marriage. I'm not saying her behavior is ok, just trying to put out there that there are often so many more things going on when we look at someone else's point of view.
Also, sometimes we assume that others are purposely avoiding certain tasks when to them it is truly not on their radar. Someone else may not care about dust in the house or beds being made (I don't), so they don't do it. But it becomes a problem of course if you have tried to have honest conversations about how to solve this problem (differing expectations on house cleaning), and you cannot come to a compromise or your wife refuses to hold up her end of the bargain.
Another thing that comes into play in situations like this is she may be so used to you doing everything that she takes it for granted that you will. The expectation has become that you will clean the home. That is a problem, but so common. She clearly doesn't have the self-awareness to realize how harmful this behavior is (or maybe doesn't care). Again, a conversation needs to happen regarding this. I can tell from your posts that you have brought this up before with little results but that's all I got lol.
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Post by DryCreek on Jan 31, 2018 20:22:10 GMT -5
doneanddone, I have a hard time making my point here without denigrating a swath of excellent stay-at-home moms, but I'll say that it's dangerous territory these days. First, the legal system penalizes you for it; instead of being rewarded as a primary / sole provider, it spanks you because you've established a lifestyle that you'll be obliged to continue subsidizing after a divorce. So, if you're going down this path, I think you're right to have high expectations and not just fund a free ride. Second, the entitlement mentality that's run amok in society has completely undermined work ethic and responsible behavior; everyone "deserves" what they want, independent of working to earn it. With someone who gravitates to this mentality, you will fight an uphill battle. When there is a lack of accountability and self-responsibility, it is very easy to get caught up in distractions and fill a day with "lots of work", yet not have much to show for it. Not a lot of people have good self-responsibility if they aren't being held accountable. Being over-tolerant enables their bad behavior, so part of the burden falls on you. I'm of the opinion that running the household is part of the duties of a stay-at-home spouse - when I used to pay a service, one hour of labor a week took care of everything except laundry and dishes. Regular vacuuming, mopped floors, dusting, wiping down surfaces, cleaning sinks/showers/toilets/windows/mirrors/light fixtures - very thorough. Even if you suck at efficiency, it is far less than a full-time job - especially when your child is in an all-day daycare(!!). Is your wife depressed? Who knows. But for sure it sounds like she's not holding up her end of things, and your patience has only enabled bad behavior to take a solid root. You will have conflict, but you need to raise that bar. If that leads to her acknowledging that she needs counseling, all the better. I don't think hiring a service fixes the problem, but it might help get some momentum going. Better would be finding someone who will work *with* her side-by-side as a 2-person crew over several weeks to instill in her new routine / habits / expectations, and to share a lot of tips-and-tricks to make the tasks less onerous. (If she's like many of us, she might not have grown up with a good example to learn from; think what that means for your child.) I know there are "organization consultants" who will help with overcoming clutter; perhaps you can find one that's a hybrid of a cleaning service/consultant. An almost trite suggestion... you might get the ball rolling with the dishes at least by ensuring that the dishwasher gets emptied promptly, so dirty dishes should never go into the sink. No excuses for them to pile up then. Encourage her to follow suit. Finally, maybe the solution here is for her to not be stay-at-home. Or put in more hours per week to offset the cost of hiring a regular cleaning service. That doesn't solve for the laundry or dishes, and there's still shopping and errands that'll need to be done - but it'd quantify in terms of "extra days of work" the value of a clean house, and perhaps she'll decide it's a better deal to do it herself.
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Post by tiredoftears on Jan 31, 2018 20:38:03 GMT -5
Got a problem.....duh that's why I'm here. Not only is my problem a SM but I am now starting to question whether or not my W is a lazy ass POS. We've been sexless now for 7 years, the exact age of our daughter, go figure. I've gone through the list of reasons for our SM so not gonna go there but now it's on another level. The W works 3 days a week, that's 24 hours Mon, Tues, Wed. She has a 4 day weekend every week. (back story) Since the first day our daughter was taken to daycare when she was literally 7 months old...... the agreement we both made with each other as brand new parents was I would take her to daycare/school on Mondays and pick her up from daycare/school on Wednesdays. Leaving my W to take her on Tues, Wed, Thurs, and Fri as well as pick her up on those days EXCEPT Wed that's my day to get her. Remember the W only works M,T, W so you would think that taking her and picking her up on Thurs and Fri wouldn't be that big of a deal since oh yeah she isn't fucking working those days. Does anyone here have a spouse that they are questioning is lazy? My W doesn't do shit on her 4 days off. She may do some laundry but by the time I get home on those days it's still piled up in the basket waiting to be folded and put away. She has maybe vacuumed the floors maybe 5 times in the 15 years we've lived in our home. Don't start with me and sweeping the stairs. We have hard wood stairs and hard wood floors in the basement. I on purpose have not touched them with a broom in 6 months to see if she would eventually grow disgusted with the build up of dirt and dust......she hasn't batted an eye at them. We have a cat that is older than dirt that hacks up fur balls and pukes all over the place, in closets, under beds, in the kitchen.....she leaves it there.....walks right past it to go out to the screen deck to smoke her cigs every morning. The fucking liter box is the bane of my existence......I love animals but want this one to go away. She'll wash dishes and leave them in the sink for weeks on end and if the dish washer is full, she leaves them for weeks as well. She takes the trash bag out of the trash can and walks 3 feet, opens the back door and puts trash bags on the deck. Am I being to harsh...... Is she lazy if my description is on point? To me, this sounds more like severe depression. I used to keep am emaculate house and cook almlst every meal. Since our relationship became sexless, our house is filthy and i barely cook. I watch tv amd play with our son, but if it doesnt directly affect him, i dont care. We hang out in the living room all day, so I keep that room clean, but the rest of the house and the laundry I could not care less about. Honestly, just thinking about doing the housework now makes me feel on the verge of an anxiety attack. She sounds depressed amd She probably needs help amd is unable to ask.
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 31, 2018 21:02:50 GMT -5
"We have a cat that is older than dirt that hacks up fur balls and pukes all over the place, in closets, under beds, in the kitchen.....she leaves it there.....walks right past it to go out to the screen deck to smoke her cigs every morning. The fucking liter box is the bane of my existence......I love animals but want this one to go away. She'll wash dishes and leave them in the sink for weeks on end and if the dish washer is full, she leaves them for weeks as well. She takes the trash bag out of the trash can and walks 3 feet, opens the back door and puts trash bags on the deck."
I don't understand why the OP insists on living like this. Seems he is very passive aggressive and doesn't mind that his kids are living amid such disorder and filth. It seems obvious that his wife has some kind of problem, and that problem likely is either extreme passive aggressiveness like his or she is seriously depressed. BTDT had a very messy house. I don't buy his excuse tht because he's working he can't do much to clean up. There are plenty of people -- typically women -- who work more than full time, raise kids by themselves and also manage to keep a clean house. Where there's a will, there's a way. But it seems he is trying to make a point by allowing his family to drown in filth until his wife -- whom he considers referring to as a POS -- wakes up.
Very dysfunctional situation. I'd be interested in hearing his wife's viewpoint. Given the major problem with cleanliness at home, it's surprising to me that lack of sex is at the top of his list of problems with his marriage and home.
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Post by Frustrated1978 on Jan 31, 2018 21:36:44 GMT -5
When one is in a sexless marriage we are 1000 times less tolerant of any issues we would usually turn the other cheek on. Suddenly The Refusers faults are multiplied 10 fold. We have two cats also. They are my bane as well. I'm the only one that feeds them, provides fresh water changes their litter box etc etc.
Yes your wife is lazy. At the end of the day she will get away with whatever you tolerate.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 22:14:12 GMT -5
It royally sucks when one spouse is checked out (I know Elle owns that phrase...lol). 😂 Yup. “Checked out” is all mine. I’m looking to upgrade though. One day I’m going to own an “all in” model. A girl can dream!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 22:19:34 GMT -5
A wise friend of mine once pointed out that in an SM, part of the problem with issues like this one is that there’s no sex to smooth it all over, to take your mind off the everyday annoyances. If your wife was doling out regular sexual favors and meeting your needs, would you have time to notice dirty floors? My guess is likely not. You’d be too busy getting the sexual intimacy we all crave so badly, and that would take the edge off the little things.
Just my .02!
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Post by baza on Jan 31, 2018 23:07:06 GMT -5
There seems to be a repeating theme in your threads Brother doneanddone . In April 2017 you unload on your missus for being lazy and say you are done with it. Same thing in May 2017. Then again a few more times in June 2017 - but this time you are truly done with it. June 2017 also chronicles you exploring the cheating option and noting that the vasectomy strategy hadn't had the desired result. January 2018 sees you unload on her again today, back on the 'lazy' theme of April 2017. Your missus might conclude from all this that whereas you might get pissy at her at pretty regular intervals that there is no credible threat to her continuing to do (or not do) whatever she likes. And on the balance of evidence, she's right. There's been no consequences for her choices at all (apart from you getting a bit pissy about it) You have shred your cred. So whatever you choose to do now - even some of the excellent suggestions the members have offered up in this thread - you start behind the 8 ball. Based on what she has observed, she's unlikely to take you seriously.
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Post by DryCreek on Feb 1, 2018 0:49:46 GMT -5
If your wife was doling out regular sexual favors and meeting your needs, would you have time to notice dirty floors? My guess is likely not. A lot of lax behavior would be overlooked (or just handled) under those circumstances. Like a lot of folks did when they were dating. For one reason, because the relationship is energizing, not sapping. Imagine that one...
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Post by doneanddone on Feb 1, 2018 6:54:26 GMT -5
"We have a cat that is older than dirt that hacks up fur balls and pukes all over the place, in closets, under beds, in the kitchen.....she leaves it there.....walks right past it to go out to the screen deck to smoke her cigs every morning. The fucking liter box is the bane of my existence......I love animals but want this one to go away. She'll wash dishes and leave them in the sink for weeks on end and if the dish washer is full, she leaves them for weeks as well. She takes the trash bag out of the trash can and walks 3 feet, opens the back door and puts trash bags on the deck." I don't understand why the OP insists on living like this. Seems he is very passive aggressive and doesn't mind that his kids are living amid such disorder and filth. It seems obvious that his wife has some kind of problem, and that problem likely is either extreme passive aggressiveness like his or she is seriously depressed. BTDT had a very messy house. I don't buy his excuse tht because he's working he can't do much to clean up. There are plenty of people -- typically women -- who work more than full time, raise kids by themselves and also manage to keep a clean house. Where there's a will, there's a way. But it seems he is trying to make a point by allowing his family to drown in filth until his wife -- whom he considers referring to as a POS -- wakes up. Very dysfunctional situation. I'd be interested in hearing his wife's viewpoint. Given the major problem with cleanliness at home, it's surprising to me that lack of sex is at the top of his list of problems with his marriage and home. Hold up....all the sudden I'm the basket case here...... I thought this was place for me to be open and honest without judgment but the last few comments and reply's have me the one that needs to lie on the couch and be questioned by a head doctor. Chew on this one.... Your perception is 100% your reality just as my perception is 100% my reality
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Post by doneanddone on Feb 1, 2018 7:04:39 GMT -5
There seems to be a repeating theme in your threads Brother doneanddone . In April 2017 you unload on your missus for being lazy and say you are done with it. Same thing in May 2017. Then again a few more times in June 2017 - but this time you are truly done with it. June 2017 also chronicles you exploring the cheating option and noting that the vasectomy strategy hadn't had the desired result. January 2018 sees you unload on her again today, back on the 'lazy' theme of April 2017. Your missus might conclude from all this that whereas you might get pissy at her at pretty regular intervals that there is no credible threat to her continuing to do (or not do) whatever she likes. And on the balance of evidence, she's right. There's been no consequences for her choices at all (apart from you getting a bit pissy about it) You have shred your cred. So whatever you choose to do now - even some of the excellent suggestions the members have offered up in this thread - you start behind the 8 ball. Based on what she has observed, she's unlikely to take you seriously. I'm a grown man with grown man problems. Saying that I have shred my cred IMO is incorrect. I'll hand it to you, going back to do your homework.....that's a classic sign of someone who takes what they do serious enough to either #1 make an impact or #2 achieve credibility among their peers. I'm going to error on the side of caution and go with #1. If nothing else you've just proven my consistency in repeating myself which by all accords is a flaw I am not unwilling to accept, I know this about myself. I've never tried to hide it....fixing it, that's a different story aside from the SM issues....OR THE DIRTY HOUSE northstarmom... Just as if the W was or is clinically depressed, you can't make someone go get help unless they want to help themselves so pointing our my flaws is great for me.... What else is wrong with me? "Based on what she has observed, she's unlikely to take you seriously." We may never know...
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Post by cagedadventurer on Feb 1, 2018 10:02:25 GMT -5
doneandone
Your thread has taken on quite the life here. With several themes considered - (messy house, depression, just lazy and indifferent, and how much you have enabled). I am confident you know many of us here are stuck in a quandary as to the action we really should take. We know logically. But we are here because there are so many moving parts in these emotionally charged cases and there appears to be just no way out. So many of us endure but have learned how to cope better and to adjust within our circumstances as a result of advice offered - advice based on experience and sometimes we get treated with sheer genius. To that, you are consistent but that's because your circumstance is consistent. My wife has been OCD for many years. She knows I abhor the sound of a vacuum cleaner running while I am home. She vacuums for "therapy" she says. I installed a central vacuum - quiet now. BUT she had made home life less than enjoyable for 2 decades as though life were all about, clean hands, clothes, vacuumed floors (not necessarily clean), dishes, folding clothes, etc. But she is so inefficient at these things, they became her whole life.
To make this post useful, in 2014 I told her we all done with her meanness over not keeping a perfect house. That toys out of place were not a sign of disrespect just kids being kids and let's let the home be a more tranquil, enjoyable place. She capitulated. NOW however, she does let things go but not to your extent by any means. But I have taken over the role of co-managing this domestic stuff to a degree and I have become the enforcer but in my more mild and encouraging way where it is a team effort. In summary and where this may help you with your scene, I do not leave ANYTHING just to her anymore for her to fail at and then make me angry. Yes she is listless too often but admits she does not even know where to start often times with organizing, etc. She just has limited functionality that way. Even when she does, it takes her WAY too long and she lets everything else go as she cannot multi-task. I know she crosses through depression, indifference, confusion, etc. but I stopped being the pleaser for peace and I just do what needs done as though it is my house and even if she is that leach roomie sometimes. So do consider shocking her with taking charge of all of it, making things as YOU want them to be with your mind shift being "she is a relative" leaching off of you but you have to grin and bear it for a time. Pay for a cleaner to assist and put things together. Do some painting, etc. but make your house YOUR home. With that done, you have removed one of the themes in your S***hole. My advice - make it a mission - 2 weeks, Garage included. You may see her engage actually and take an interest in home-life again. You may not but you'll like the improvement.
In your your case, this social media crap and going out, I know I could not tolerate AND be sexless. That is disrespect at one of it's highest levels. Her affairs are with all these distractions. But consider that these distractions also keep her from facing reality of home. She does not even know how to start as the task seems too big. But again, do not try to fix her all at one time. Fix the house first as that is the one thing in your total control. Be drastic. Again, she may begin showing an interest by something as subtle as telling you a paint color she likes when she sees you heading out to buy paint.
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