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Post by doneanddone on Jan 31, 2018 13:57:35 GMT -5
So what would be a good way to start that conversation to where I can get her to understand that about herself. She hates going to doctors. I would just be real with her. Tell her she needs to go to a therapist. Perhaps hire a cleaning service to reset the house and once clean maybe that will help everyone to restart mentally in addition to therapy. I have been depressed myself where I can't get motivated to get out of bed. I doubt simply cleaning the house is going to fix this.
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Post by doneanddone on Jan 31, 2018 14:02:15 GMT -5
One cannot "force" a depressed person to seek help. I know this firsthand. "A person who doesn't want to isn't going to." - WEWBWB. (your zen of the day - you're welcome.) True, you can't force anyone to get psychiatric help (except for three days if they're a threat to their own or someone else's safety, I think you can have them committed but and that's different) but you can call their attention to a situation in a caring way and suggest that they may be depressed, which they themselves may not have considered. You can look up potential resources for counseling and psychiatric consults for them or call yourself. If that doesn't work, one might also seek out a counselor themself to brainstorm ideas about how to deal with this extreme sounding situation. FYI, I've been clinically depressed for years, but keep it at bay with an antidepressant. I'm still not exactly happy, but I think my husband is depressed too (as you said, you can't force someone to seek help) and not having had sex in 8.5 years isn't making me any cheerier for sure. Anyway, I have a lot of inertia from the remnants of my depression, but I can generally shame myself into keeping the house livable, if not exactly tidy. Once I get going on vacuuming, watch out! I also have ADHD so organizing and prioritizing is difficult for me, but I try. And sometimes, i even succeed! Main point is doneanddone your wife's behavior sounds intolerable and I can see why you're frustrated. Definitely, encourage her in every way possible to get a psych consult. If that doesn't happen soon, you might end up on one of those hoarding shows! Just kidding, but you know. and as northstarmom said...well, just take her advice. And I would do it soon, because you sound very frustrated and resentful. No judgement about that, I can totally understand, but I would not let this situation fester for too long. The furballs and hairballs are already festering, growing new bacterial cultures, etc. for you! I say this in all love, truly Love you 2!!!
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 31, 2018 14:04:26 GMT -5
Lazy? Maybe not. Manipulative and controlling? Quite possibly. Living on a one way street paved with double standards? Sure sounds like it. That is an angle I had not thought about.....interesting.... Pardon my bold reach... (speaking from my own experience) You can attribute this to a lack of boundaries, and a problem with you being co-dependent. (happy wife, happy life syndrome) If this is the case, co-dependancy is fixable. Manipulative controlling is not.
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Post by wewbwb on Jan 31, 2018 14:06:07 GMT -5
One cannot "force" a depressed person to seek help. I know this firsthand. "A person who doesn't want to isn't going to." - WEWBWB. (your zen of the day - you're welcome.) True, you can't force anyone to get psychiatric help (except for three days if they're a threat to their own or someone else's safety, I think you can have them committed but and that's different) but you can call their attention to a situation in a caring way and suggest that they may be depressed, which they themselves may not have considered. You can look up potential resources for counseling and psychiatric consults for them or call yourself. If that doesn't work, one might also seek out a counselor themself to brainstorm ideas about how to deal with this extreme sounding situation. One may point out all the ways they show signs of depression. One may have all the resources handy and a counselor on speed dial. One may even make the appointment FOR them. If they sit there and "feel attacked" - well, that was just a big step backwards. I
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Post by doneanddone on Jan 31, 2018 14:30:13 GMT -5
That is an angle I had not thought about.....interesting.... Pardon my bold reach... (speaking from my own experience) You can attribute this to a lack of boundaries, and a problem with you being co-dependent. (happy wife, happy life syndrome) If this is the case, co-dependancy is fixable. Manipulative controlling is not. Hmmm.....I'm now in deep thought (with Jack Handey....lol...old SNL skits for those who are not of age to remember) I'm not going to rule out co-dependency immediately without giving myself some solid indicators and factors to start monitoring and watching for changes and responses. To come out of left field with some half witted hair brained cock a maim-me idea that she is depressed or needs to go see a therapist, counselor, psychiatrist....whatever it may be without some examples or specific instances to site for reference would go very very badly....
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Post by saarinista on Jan 31, 2018 14:41:50 GMT -5
Jack Handey, as played by our now former Minnesota Senator Al Franken, may be available for counseling now..... Those were GREAT skits.
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 31, 2018 14:46:00 GMT -5
I would just be real with her. Tell her she needs to go to a therapist. Perhaps hire a cleaning service to reset the house and once clean maybe that will help everyone to restart mentally in addition to therapy. I have been depressed myself where I can't get motivated to get out of bed. I doubt simply cleaning the house is going to fix this. I agree but it's an idea to start with AFTER a conversation to try to get her to go to a therapist to get help.
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Post by doneanddone on Jan 31, 2018 14:48:27 GMT -5
True, you can't force anyone to get psychiatric help (except for three days if they're a threat to their own or someone else's safety, I think you can have them committed but and that's different) but you can call their attention to a situation in a caring way and suggest that they may be depressed, which they themselves may not have considered. You can look up potential resources for counseling and psychiatric consults for them or call yourself. If that doesn't work, one might also seek out a counselor themself to brainstorm ideas about how to deal with this extreme sounding situation. One may point out all the ways they show signs of depression. One may have all the resources handy and a counselor on speed dial. One may even make the appointment FOR them. If they sit there and "feel attacked" - well, that was just a big step backwards. I One thing I've learned in my short 40 something years of being alive and living my life to the fullest....... I cannot make anyone feel anything........ first YOU have to receive my thoughts, my words, and my actions...... and then and only then will YOU will perceive and interpret my thoughts and words or actions..... it is at that moment YOUR feelings are expressed in return...... I do have a filter BTW (I am sympathetic and do have empathy....to a certain degree) so knowing how something is going to come across is a form of manipulation if you look at it from that perspective.....
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 31, 2018 14:50:42 GMT -5
Pardon my bold reach... (speaking from my own experience) You can attribute this to a lack of boundaries, and a problem with you being co-dependent. (happy wife, happy life syndrome) If this is the case, co-dependancy is fixable. Manipulative controlling is not. Hmmm.....I'm now in deep thought (with Jack Handey....lol...old SNL skits for those who are not of age to remember) I'm not going to rule out co-dependency immediately without giving myself some solid indicators and factors to start monitoring and watching for changes and responses. To come out of left field with some half witted hair brained cock a maim-me idea that she is depressed or needs to go see a therapist, counselor, psychiatrist....whatever it may be without some examples or specific instances to site for reference would go very very badly.... Your response had me a little confused. I meant to say that YOU are co-dependent on her . Pleasing her, living up to her rules and standards, remaining under her control. And that setting and enforcing boundaries is a step towards no longer being co-dependent. Boundaries like no longer picking up her shit but cleaning up only your own mess and and pilling her mess on her side of the bed, or on her car or wherever. Like having to discipline a child who disrespects simple, accessible boundaries. WARNING: Get ready "Hell is coming to breakfast". Here is another deeper thought for you (more of my own experience) having your house such a mess means you will never be inviting friends or family over. How does that benefit her? It keeps you under her control. No friends, no outside life, no other relationships. While she continues to bury her own fears dating back to child hood, and she will take them to her grave. You my friend do not have to continue to be a part of that and feel 100% responible for it, but I'm getting way ahead and playing to much into it.
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Post by lostintime on Jan 31, 2018 15:03:24 GMT -5
I think most girls from the young age have one very important goal in life. To get married and have kids, once the goal is achieved they become lazy. I am not saying it applies to all women but a lot of them are like that. My wife is lazy started working part time recently and have not worked for approximately 10 years. She cleans the house sometimes and cooks sometimes. She does look after the two kids and that is about it. She sleeps as much as a 10 year old, approximately 8-9 hours a day. She gets very excited when she goes out with the girls 1-2 times a month or when she goes for coffee with girls during the day 2-3 times a week. The house is borderline clean because when its dusty I get very upset and bring it up to her attention. I sleep 5-6 hours a day and work long hours, sometimes on the weekends. I started cutting my hours from 75 hours to 70 and plan to work 60 hours or less with in a year. I think depression is used as an excuse in most circumstances. I think I am depressed but still work long hours, sleep very little and never lazy to have sex. Also do not watch TV or use Facebook. I think Netflix and Facebook is what takes most of my wife's time. Sounds all to familiar lostintime We have a daughter and the W only works Mon, Tues, and Wed. That's a 4 day weekend every week. Dusty floors, laundry piled high or falling out of the basket, dirty AND clean dishes in the sink and dishwasher, watches Bravo and Lifetime, shops online, hates her girlfriends and thinks they are all caddie bitches..... I talk to my wife on regular basis when the house needs cleaning or I need attention and she usually fixes both with in a reasonable time. My problem is I do not want to constantly ask her to do one or the other she is not a teenager and needs to be a responsible adult. She does not need to tell me what to do as I am always there for her with kids, career and anything else she needs. All she has to do is ask me once and if its reasonable I will constantly monitor it and fix it as needed.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 31, 2018 15:11:28 GMT -5
Just to throw a twist in this, with divorce happening that gave me every right to stop maintaining and cleaning a house that was no longer going to be mine. Even if I was living there. Then there's been all the delays, about 7 of them. Times when I said" why should I get out there and climb and trim trees with chain saws, pressure wash fences, driveways, buildings, clean pools, fix sagging gutters, change vents, repair sinks, washing machines, toilets, trim bushes, spray insecticides, dust and do windows, etc... when in a month and a half it won't be mine? AND she needs to put on her big girl britches and start doing these things FOR HER SELF or pay someone, because I am not going to be here. Something our spouses need to start considering as they continue to reject us with the SM. (What's crazy is how much I want to do this stuff, butt have to hold myself back) I've already been told that my attorney is going to use it for my advantage. And that my W is going to try to paint me as lazy. All I have to do is explain how much I've been responsible for ( it's quite a list) ,for decades and it wasn't going to be mine any longer, then how she decided to not step up. That just doesn't seem morally right to me. If I see shit on the floor, I'm gonna clean it up. The one thing I did do was intentionally not sweep the stairs just to see if she would and she hasn't one even given it a thought even though she walks up and down them every single day at least 5 times. She's even said out loud vocally from her mouth to my ears......"I can't believe the amount of dust that collects in our house...." HELLO....MCFLY......ANYBODY HOME.......if that's not lazy I don't know what is..... Sounds like she has you well trained, and is expecting you to read her mind. She is saying to you "Oh farm boy...sweep these stairs, I want to see my face shinning in them by morning".
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Post by doneanddone on Jan 31, 2018 15:17:35 GMT -5
Hmmm.....I'm now in deep thought (with Jack Handey....lol...old SNL skits for those who are not of age to remember) I'm not going to rule out co-dependency immediately without giving myself some solid indicators and factors to start monitoring and watching for changes and responses. To come out of left field with some half witted hair brained cock a maim-me idea that she is depressed or needs to go see a therapist, counselor, psychiatrist....whatever it may be without some examples or specific instances to site for reference would go very very badly.... Your response had me a little confused. I meant to say that YOU are co-dependent on her . Pleasing her, living up to her rules and standards, remaining under her control. And that setting and enforcing boundaries is a step towards no longer being co-dependent. Boundaries like no longer picking up her shit but cleaning up only your own mess and and pilling her mess on her side of the bed, or on her car or wherever. Like having to discipline a child who disrespects simple, accessible boundaries. WARNING: Get ready "Hell is coming to breakfast". Here is another deeper thought for you (more of my own experience) having your house such a mess means you will never be inviting friends or family over. How does that benefit her? It keeps you under her control. No friends, no outside life, no other relationships. While she continues to bury her own fears dating back to child hood, and she will take them to her grave. You my friend do not have to continue to be a part of that and feel 100% responible for it, but I'm getting way ahead and playing to much into it. HOLY SHIT!!!!!!! Are you reading my mind...... I've gone that route in the past with the clothes on her side of the bed, the dishes she used left in the sink, the towels she used in the bathroom on the floor.....nothing but bad results i.e. arguments, dirty looks, bad attitude like she didn't like that I actually called her shit on some stuff she knew was bogus.... The part about family not coming over, friends, outside life....man that hits home.... She HATES MY PARENTS....she'll claim she doesn't but her actions and attitude toward them tell a different story. Damn....I hate this place...but love this place all at the same time... (iliasm.org)
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Post by baza on Jan 31, 2018 17:30:18 GMT -5
Due to "depression" or "bone laziness" or some other malady, this deal is in the death spiral and is heading for a real hard landing it would seem.
Suggestion. See a lawyer in your jurisdiction to establish how a divorce would shake out for you, start putting an exit strategy together, shore up your support network, and research everything you can find about helping kids transition through such an event.
Assume the brace for impact position in other words. That's the only thing you control in this situation.
Meantime, suggest your missus see a medico etc, but accept that whether she does or not is not a matter under your control.
Concurrently, you might handle the mess problem by throwing a bit of money at it by engaging a cleaner.
But in overall terms, look after what you can directly control, and then let the cards fall where they may. And brace for impact.
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Post by wewbwb on Jan 31, 2018 17:43:12 GMT -5
Concurrently, you might handle the mess problem by throwing a bit of money at it by engaging a cleaner. Or a rock. There really is no "right" answer here. (Sorry, I'm in one of those moods.)
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Post by baza on Jan 31, 2018 17:52:06 GMT -5
Concurrently, you might handle the mess problem by throwing a bit of money at it by engaging a cleaner. Or a rock. There really is no "right" answer here. (Sorry, I'm in one of those moods.) Or a hand grenade.
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