|
Post by Dan on Jan 4, 2018 11:20:43 GMT -5
ricky2669 : You've mentioned your goals are t o be desired, touched, and loved. And that you need affection and attention.
We all want that! Then you then mention: - I don't want a divorce.
- I don't want to feel constant rejection.
- I don't want to have an affair.
Please note: It is quite possible that you can't achieve all three of these "don't wants".If/when you admit that to yourself, you will better be able to make a decision about which is most important to you, and that will allow you to make a choice for what is the next step to take. IMO: the sooner, the better. Edit/update: Oops. Just now realized that the OP is from a year ago, and this thread popped to the top due to the wife's input. Curious! No matter: my input stands. @myaccount1 / NurseM : all the best to you in figuring out your communication issues, and resolving the differences in your marriage to your mutual satisfaction.
|
|
|
Post by lwoetin on Jan 4, 2018 14:00:04 GMT -5
There is still so much love, attraction & passion, but he is so full of pride he's about to throw it all away! In his previous marriage they got married very young. Had kids very young. According to him she was unfaithful, but until recently when he admitted to our family that he had been unfaithful to me he admitted then that he was unfaithful to his ex-wife. He seemed very remorseful and that's why I was willing to move forward. Fast forward 3 months & this is where we are now. He refuses to admit that he met his friend with benefits in person, but how can I believe him when he lies about everything? I don't know how to deal with someone you don't have faith in and trust. But since you still have love, attraction and passion for him, it can still probably work if he is remorseful and offers to change. Hopefully he is honest and has good intentions in how he responds to this situation. (You remind me of my spouse. Serious and tough. You don't need your husband but you still want him. I don't have issues of fidelity, love and trust with her, but about negotiation for sex.) If I was in your husband's shoes and he did have an affair....Admit to it. You can't live in a lie your whole life. Be brave. No one is worth lying to, even her. Explain yourself. Be open to learn from what you did. If she leaves you, find someone else who would love you.
|
|
|
Post by rejected101 on Jan 4, 2018 17:11:05 GMT -5
Someone already said this and it’s probably true. There’s always 3 sides to a story....his, hers and the truth.
Every action leads to a reaction even the reaction is subtle and not a conscious decision by the person who has made the response. You both need to look at your marriage and both need to find a way to work through it.
One thing I will totally disagree with though is where you say a man not getting exactly the amount of sex they want may as well be getting zero. It’s total rubbish. True compromise it what I seek (and I mean true compromise not I fuck you an extra time here and there without effort so you can shut up).
|
|
|
Post by Caris on Jan 4, 2018 17:58:40 GMT -5
I agree and although I have a degree of sympathy for @myaccount1 as she has found out something very upsetting, she has also stated that she wanted sex but by 10:30 is ready to collapse. Let’s just address this I’m too tired, go to excuse of nearly all refusers bull shit, once and for all. You aren’t being asked to go out and do a 40 mile bike ride. It’s laying in bed with your partner once a freaking week and making love TOGETHER! If you’re knackered at 10:30, once a week, turn the damn tv off, put your phone on silent, ditch the candy bloody crush saga and go to bed at 9:30!!!!!! Make room for it. The reality here is that @myaccount1 didn’t want or need to make room for it like so many others who’s partners end up here. If she did want to, she would have made room for it but instead we have this, how could he possibly have an affair type of victim mentality. I don’t know all the facts but what I am hearing is that ‘he’ should have brought things up (he says he did), he should have made more effort, he should have read her mind because she wasn’t prepared to talk either, he should have remained sexually faithful to a woman that has sex twice in 12 months. Twice! Get real! How come you were able to do at all if 10:30 you have to collapse? How was it possible on those occasions? Probably like my wife because you wanted a shag! And like my wife, you used your husband just like a dildo in the bedside drawer, you got him out on the odd occasion you fancied it and you sexually pleased yourself with him. Then you put him back in the drawer for 6 months. Your remarks are very unkind, in my opinion. Very judgmental. I think, like a few here, you are looking through the filter of your own pain and frustration, and projecting it on another person who is also suffering. This is what a SM does to some people...makes them and everything around them, toxic. They see the faults of their spouse in other people. It’s sad and horribly destructive all round.
|
|
|
Post by northstarmom on Jan 4, 2018 18:12:22 GMT -5
Having raised kids while working, I have empathy for her if her husband isn't helping out. I fully can understand that sex would be the last thing on her mind. She'd want and need to sleep.
I hope both will answer the following: How did each of you let the other know about your concerns? If you talked honestly face to face or in counseling, what happened afterward? Did each make efforts to meet the other's needs.
If you've tried to express your concerns to the other, and your spouse didn't take any actions to meet your needs, why are you continuing to be together? The marriage sounds miserable.
|
|
|
Post by rejected101 on Jan 4, 2018 18:15:22 GMT -5
I agree and although I have a degree of sympathy for @myaccount1 as she has found out something very upsetting, she has also stated that she wanted sex but by 10:30 is ready to collapse. Let’s just address this I’m too tired, go to excuse of nearly all refusers bull shit, once and for all. You aren’t being asked to go out and do a 40 mile bike ride. It’s laying in bed with your partner once a freaking week and making love TOGETHER! If you’re knackered at 10:30, once a week, turn the damn tv off, put your phone on silent, ditch the candy bloody crush saga and go to bed at 9:30!!!!!! Make room for it. The reality here is that @myaccount1 didn’t want or need to make room for it like so many others who’s partners end up here. If she did want to, she would have made room for it but instead we have this, how could he possibly have an affair type of victim mentality. I don’t know all the facts but what I am hearing is that ‘he’ should have brought things up (he says he did), he should have made more effort, he should have read her mind because she wasn’t prepared to talk either, he should have remained sexually faithful to a woman that has sex twice in 12 months. Twice! Get real! How come you were able to do at all if 10:30 you have to collapse? How was it possible on those occasions? Probably like my wife because you wanted a shag! And like my wife, you used your husband just like a dildo in the bedside drawer, you got him out on the odd occasion you fancied it and you sexually pleased yourself with him. Then you put him back in the drawer for 6 months. Your remarks are very unkind, in my opinion. Very judgmental. I think, like a few here, you are looking through the filter of your own pain and frustration, and projecting it on another person who is also suffering. This is what a SM does to some people...makes them and everything around them, toxic. They see the faults of their spouse in other people. It’s sad and horribly destructive all round. You are probably right. I wrote it without due consideration and allowed my personal frustrations to dictate what I wrote. @myaccount1 I apologise!
|
|
|
Post by Caris on Jan 4, 2018 18:27:43 GMT -5
No matter what issues you have going on with the marriage...hot sex, no sex, best friends or not, the main issue as far as I can see is trust. If what you say is true – that he lies about everything – then you have no solid foundation to build anything on. Even if your sex life were to resume tomorrow, and it was genuinely hot and passionate, it would not be enough, and it would not last. You can’t build a house on sand, and unless you both trust the other, the resentment and toxicity will keep growing.
|
|
|
Post by Caris on Jan 4, 2018 18:35:41 GMT -5
Your remarks are very unkind, in my opinion. Very judgmental. I think, like a few here, you are looking through the filter of your own pain and frustration, and projecting it on another person who is also suffering. This is what a SM does to some people...makes them and everything around them, toxic. They see the faults of their spouse in other people. It’s sad and horribly destructive all round. You are probably right. I wrote it without due consideration and allowed my personal frustrations to dictate what I wrote. @myaccount1 I apologise! Yeah, I’ve gone through it myself, so I recognize the signs in others. The fact that you are aware of it means there is hope for you in overcoming it. It’s a terrible thing what these abusive marriages (or any abusive relationship) does to us. It was very evident in me 2.5-years ago, but because I became aware of my distorted perception, I could start working on it, and it’s very much better now.
|
|
|
Post by rejected101 on Jan 4, 2018 18:39:14 GMT -5
You are probably right. I wrote it without due consideration and allowed my personal frustrations to dictate what I wrote. @myaccount1 I apologise! Yeah, I’ve gone through it myself, so I recognize the signs in others. The fact that you are aware of it means there is hope for you in overcoming it. It’s a terrible thing what these abusive marriages (or any abusive relationship) does to us. It was very evident in me 2.5-years ago, but because I became aware of my distorted perception, I could start working on it, and it’s very much better now. Typically I have to say I’m not that quick to bite or be angered but unfortunately I was having a bad day thinking about my own scenario (this isn’t me excusing myself) and I tapped away furiously. Like I say, it was wrong, poorly worded and unnecessarily confrontational.
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Jan 4, 2018 20:11:18 GMT -5
Having raised kids while working, I have empathy for her if her husband isn't helping out. I fully can understand that sex would be the last thing on her mind. She'd want and need to sleep. Having raised kids while working I too have empathy for her if her husband isn't helping out. However this is where I took a different approach. I'm not saying it's right or wrong its just what it was in hindsight. My approach was, I've been raising kids while working, practically everything is taken care of, the kids are in bed. I've been surrounded by kids all day, we as a couple have made the kids our entire focal point for the whole evening. Sure there is plenty to communicate about, plenty of happiness to share. Then comes "the need"! The need that can only be filled by my W. Sex would be the first thing on my mind, time for RECEIVING after a day and evening of giving for the good of "the family". (There's RECIEVING from children and fellow workers, the same is expected from your spouse. Only your spouse should be giving you the sex and intimacy) I too would want and need my sleep, and having sex and sharing intimacy, helps me sleep. It gives me a mental and physical relaxation that I craved from my spouse. A lot of trust and respect comes with that too, something that will help you rest for years to come. With that trust comes the desire to wrap my arms around my spouse and fall asleep together. Being rejected drives a very real distance between the two adults, that many times can not be repaired.
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jan 4, 2018 20:56:46 GMT -5
Usually here, it is nominally the refused spouse who googles "sexless marriage" and ends up here taking a full inventory of their spouses perceived faults and describing (from their perspective), a highly dysfunctional situation. On the rare rare occasions the nominally refuser spouse gets here and exercises their right of reply, an even more dysfunctional situation is revealed. At that point, it ceases to matter who is nominally the refuser or the refused. The relationship is revealed as a big fuck up with neither spouse being particularly happy about it. From there, the following happens. There is a concerted team effort by both spouses to get to the truth of the situation or (in the event of one of the spouses failing to pull their weight in getting to the truth of the situation) It falls on one of the spouses to act unilaterally to drive the matter to conclusion. or Neither spouse is prepared to act unilaterally and the situation just goes on and on indefinitely. Do you think that ricky2669 is someone you can - in good faith - jointly work your way to the truth of your deal ? Are you prepared to act unilaterally if necessary ? Same two questions apply to the original poster ricky2669 .
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Jan 4, 2018 21:23:45 GMT -5
This is a side note, but seems like a good place to mention it. The word "exhausted" was used several times. Am I the only one who notices this?
Men and woman want to be treated the same yet I read exhausted used in -what seems like- a 10-0 ratio by woman compared to men?
Now to contradict myself: when watching the show "Naked and Afraid", I find it fascinating and uplifting to see how many of the woman endure the whole 21 days verses the men! Physically and psychologically!
Personally, I can only remember 3 or 4 times in my life when I was too "exhausted" to have sex. Like having to crawl in the front door using my elbows, because my legs where so numb,and I could not stand on them from months/years of driving long haul, then falling asleep in the hallway. But give me a day or two, I was ready. Then the time when my head was pounded into the ocean floor while surfing and having thousands of gallons of salt water crashing you into more waves,1000 paddle strokes later making your way to shore. (That's called surviving) after an hour or two I was able to drive home.
Then there's surgery or injuries whre I still am not "exhausted " enough to offer, "how about I touch you tonight, and you touch me, I still wan't to hold you and kiss you! and be next to you!"
There's been mental exhaustion, having to end a relationship when ,out of the blue you find out you where lied to, cheated on,involving a fling and an abortion. Not something that allows you mentally to just go and have sex with someone else the next day. I get that!
But I'm talking about the, after dinner, after the kids are in bed,sheer avoidance, total manipulation, by being told " I'm exhausted!".Yet if a kid wakes up from a bad dream , or a relative calls, or the dog gets sick, they jump to their feet, and are wide awake! They -H and W- are also wide awake at 5:30am playing games on their computer ready to tackle a new day! There's to much DARVO that goes with," I'm exhausted".
(again do men use that, or admit to that? Being "exhausted"? Doesn't that go against a man's upbringing? The "man -up" mentality, take it like a man, no emotion, men don't cry theology.)
My experience gives the term "exhausted" a red flag.
I would like to close on this, a spouse who is not pulling their weight in a relationship (chores, discipline, leadership, communication,etc...) is far more likely to crawl into a deeper hole, or find someone else, than be cured by the "love Avoidant "approach.
|
|
|
Post by rejected101 on Jan 4, 2018 21:33:00 GMT -5
This is a side note, but seems like a good place to mention it. The word "exhausted" was used several times. Am I the only one ho notices this? Men and woman want to be treated the same yet I read exhausted used in -what seems like- a 10-0 ratio by woman compared to men? Now to contradict myself: when watching the show Naked and Afraid", I find it fascinating and uplifting to see how many of the woman endure the whole 21 days verses the men! Physically and psychologically! Personally, I can only remember 3 or 4 times in my life when I was too "exhausted" to have sex. Like having to crawl in the front door using my elbows, because my legs where so numb,and I could not stand on them from months/years of driving long haul, then falling asleep in the hallway. But give me a day or two, I was ready. Then the time when my head was pounded into the ocean floor while surfing and having thousands of gallons of salt water crashing you into more waves,1000 paddle strokes later making your way to shore. (That's called surviving) after an hour or two I was able to drive home. Then there's surgery or injuries hre I still am not "exhausted " enough to offer, "how about I touch you tonight, and you touch me, I still wan't to hold you and kiss you! and be next to you!" There's been mental exhaustion, having to end a relationship when ,out of the blue you find out you where lied to cheated on,involving a fling and an abortion. Not something that allows you mentally to just go and have sex with someone else the next day. I get that! But I'm talking about the, after dinner, after the kids are in bed,sheer avoidance, total manipulation, by being told " I'm exhausted!".Yet if a kid wakes up from a bad dream , or a relative calls, or the dog gets sick, they jump to their feet, and are wide awake! They -H and W- are also wide awake at 5:30am playing games on their computer ready to tackle a new day! There's to much DARVO that goes with, I'm exhausted". (again do men use that, or admit to that? Being "exhausted"? Doesn't that go against a mans upbringing? The "man -up mentality, take it like a man, no emotion, men don't cry theology.) My experience gives the term "exhausted" a red flag. Sex/orgasms are proven to be great for promoting a productive nights sleep. Give 30 minutes of your time and the quality of sleep may supersede the extra half an hour you would have had anyway. It’s an excuse in my opinion and nothing more. Offer the “exhausted” party $1000 to have sex after they have declared themselves incapable through exhaustion and suddenly they would be capable. Excuses lead to a lifestyle. Lifestyles are difficult to change. To make the change you need effort and unfortunately refusers don’t want to make any effort to change what they are happy with in the first place.
|
|
|
Post by james on Jan 5, 2018 3:50:41 GMT -5
This thread is making me feel slightly uneasy. It's all to easy to be selective about what we disclose here, knowing that in general none of it is verifiable *unless* our partners happen to come along and state their side of the case, and that doesn't happen very often, fortunately (this is a support group after all). Would I be happy if my wife started responding to my posts on here? Not at all. Her perspective is different. As Ricky and Nurse have amply demonstrated, things can be substantially more messy than they first seem. Maybe we should all have an amnesty on things that we have omitted to mention thus far. My inventory (I think I have mentioned most of them already but here goes): -massively over-fixated on work/career in first years of our marriage, to detriment of caring for wife and kids -suffered from periods of quite severe anxiety/depression with time off work (ironically) -insufficiently sensitive to wife's distress following miscarriage x2, early menopause -had emotional affair with work colleague over period of months -drove through family relocation in face of some opposition from my wife -(in her eyes) poor attitude to domestic issues such as cleaning/yard work/maintenance W says I never apologise/apologised for any of these things, though I believe I tried. When you look at it, though, is it any wonder she doesn't want to have sex with me? On the opposite side: I believe I have addressed these issues: I changed my work, sorted out my mental health, no more affairs, no more relocations, I try to be caring, try to have a better attitude to housework. Still no sex. And my issue is that she won't talk to me about it despite numerous attempts at couple counselling and trying to get her to negotiate.
|
|
|
Post by DryCreek on Jan 5, 2018 9:21:49 GMT -5
james, speak for yourself... everyone else here is a saint. ;-) You're right, of course. We all present a biased view, whether intentionally or out of ignorance. The very things we fail to mention because they're not notable to us might be a huge issue for our spouse.
|
|