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Post by worksforme2 on Jan 7, 2018 15:31:19 GMT -5
Ditto northstarmom,.....I expect most of us could say the same thing about our S/M partners. My W could never (or perhaps wouldn't)say why she no longer wanted any intimacy (not just sex). Although I attribute it mostly to being post menopausal it's only my analysis of where the evidence led me. This latest post by NurseM does give some cause for hope. If both parties can and are honest with each other and address the issues that trouble the relationship then there is a good chance they can bridge the current chasm and put the relationship on a much more sustainable track.
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Post by shamwow on Jan 7, 2018 15:34:54 GMT -5
We have now laid everything on the table & agreed neither of us want a divorce. What started all of this to begin with is he has never brought anything to me, ie., I have always been verbal, but he has only ever responded with what he thought I wanted to hear. Never anything close to what he posted on here. He never gave me the opportunity to make changes because he has never been fully honest. So after 4 yrs I guess we will start anew & only time will tell if he can remain honest, forthright & trustworthy. I don't want to be where you all are. Not now & certainly not 20 yrs from now. As for the last users post I'm sorry to hear of your wife's inability to trust you or even provide intimacy. We all need to feel loved & wanted. I do know after 15 yrs in my profession of nursing I have heard many reasons especially while working in ob/gyn. The main complaint I hear is that women have no libido. I cover numerous specialties & will have to make time to go into what I hear both genders complain of at a later time. For me when my husband is attentive, caring & thoughtful I cannot say no to him. In Sept. when he partially admitted to some of what he had done we changed our routine. When we came home from work & we spent an hour together away from the kids before starting homework, dinner, showers, kids arguing, the usual night time chaos. This prevented us, (mainly me,) from feeling so mentally depleted from our work day, then an entire night of chaos with our 4 kids. It worked. I allowed myself to give into whatever he & I want. Now we have to sort thru the damaged aftermath of his infidelity. It sounds as though you guys are working to fix that crack in the glass half full / empty. As you may guess from many stories here, the willingness / desire to meet halfway is lacking from the typical story on this site. The only word of caution I can nit pick on is when you indicate you are allowing yourself to "give in" to wants. True "wants" don't need yo be "given in to". True wants will happen DESPITE obstacles thrown in their way. If this isn't how you feel, expect this particular issue to raise its ugly head in the future. That being said, if you guys can pull it off, my hat goes off to you. Your marriage is still new enough that this might just be a rough patch in the beginning. I hope it is. For most of us who have been here for decades, the rough patch IS the relationship. I sincerely hope you don't and never understand what I'm talking about.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 7, 2018 15:37:03 GMT -5
Please spell out in detail what an "on line affair" is? Has there been actual physical contact? Or is Ricky just getting the same thing you crave, words of affirmation?
You should go to a Divorce recovery class and meet other woman. You would walk away with a different perspective, more like," and I thought I had problems". I know woman who have had a gun shoved in their mouths, been beaten, left bankrupt and hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, had to live in shelters with their kids, etc..."
I'll probably have stones cast at me for saying this, "an online affair" is not that bad. If anything it's a warning sign that reads "bridge out ahead". It's like pointing out the speck in someone else's eye and ignoring the plank in your own. The same with viewing porn. Find a single man in this country who hasn't viewed porn at some time in their life. You can't.
At times you have a dizzying intellect. And that's reading your written word. You contradict yourself. You speak out of both sides of your mouth. How often does Ricky hear this? It took me hours to quote it. Imagine him having to digest it all in his mind and respond to it? You even said about all your spoken words to Ricky. What about your actions? You want action from him with the house and the family, you call it "empty promises"..Which speak louder?
POSITIVE:
For example:I gave it my all & we got back on track with things better than ever & our sex life amazing. Greatest lover I've ever had. He fulfilled me in ways I never knew existed. Men feel loved with sex, and attention. Together we share a chemistry that could set our surroundings on fire! If you withhold yourself from your husband you will tempt him. The only time we are apart is when we are at work. We only had sex 6 times that year (not twice as he stated) He does more things around the house than most men. I stand to loose the man I have loved so deeply. We spent an hour away from the kids. It worked. I want sex! I want attention and love too! She would initiate 50% of the time We confined in each other. we shared our troubles. She came from a SM. We met each others needs. I can not say no to him.
NEGATIVE:
I expect him to step up then resent him when he didn't. I did go to him countless times and explain exactly what I needed from him. He made empty promises. I fell into depression. I burned myself out going from child to child. He disconnected. He doesn't follow through on things that matter a great deal to me. I do not choose my battles wisely. I sank, I failed miserably. He admitted to having an online affair that lasted 6 weeks. He admitted he had an on line affair on and off over a year. He cheated and he lied! I deserve the truth, he took me for granite. He makes horrible decisions, I would tell any other woman to dump him. Overnight it was just gone. I've tried to talk about this with her. Nothing has changed. She is always wanting it to be over quickly. I have to retrain myself to get off as soon as she does.
So you (not Ricky, you made the change according to your own words) gave it all you had after counselling, your sex life was amazing!.... but it's all Ricky's fault?
You strongly need words of affirmation. ( that's normal, and acceptable) But then, with all of your back and forth emotions Ricky retreats. (that's normal too) You have your priorities very, very badly misplaced.
GOD first Marriage second Children third.
Ricky continues to get shoved on the back burner for the children. You two where better off in separate households at the rate you are going. ( at least then you weren't taking the 6 times /2 times a year and just pushing it asside as a trivial nothing, ( i can't speak for Ricky , but he probably NEEDS 2 times a week) you BADLY misplace the trust,and communication that comes with that, BIG, BIG, mistake) You use it as a CONTROL weapon- goodbye marriage!
Spell out what affirmation you want. Wright it down. Don't expect an immediate change. Like eating an elephant, one bite at a time) Be specific. Be repetitive with an understanding tone. Make it part of your sex and intimacy. Lead by example, compliment him on his sex and intimacy, and have him compliment you on cleaning the house buying the groceries, fixing dinner, etc... Tell him what you want to hear. It may sound rehearsed and insincere but that will grow stronger with time. Make a chart with sticky notes on it " words of affirmation spoken today" Both needs will be met Don't assume that Ricky is "supposed to know". Talk about it at dinner and have sex. Be a giver and a receiver.
Do you know another couple who compliment and affirm each others actions. try to find one, hang around with them, be like them, get there guidance.
I'm no stranger to this. I'm a stay at home dad with 6 kids and an elderly FIL. I cook for 9. Half my kids where adopted from a foreign country, I do home-school, part time work, some of my kids have special needs and learning disabilities. I know all to much about running kids everywhere. I changed so many thousands of diapers, They are all only one year apart from each other too. Then to have an easy 14 yrs of a loveless sexless marriage with a grey-sexual, manipulative controller, and me being far to passive and co-dependent. My divorce is at the end of the month.
I think you hide behind a "on line affair" you have taken it WAY OVER BOARD and are ignoring the real issues, of putting children first. They will be just fine, what they so strongly need is to see respect, communication, and intimacy from mom and dad.
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Post by twotimesone on Jan 7, 2018 19:14:57 GMT -5
Greatcoastal, Great thread. NurseM says that she is the victim here but I see that she is probably more of a problem in the marriage. Making your husband to be a slave in the household is a disaster waiting to happen. There's too much political correctness on how a husband should be but not much mentioned on duties as a wife should be. Unfortunately, there's too much "Happy Wife, Happy Life" BS running around and often times husbands are left in the wayside. Too many women think that a divorce or punishing your H will solve the problem but it will make it worse.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 7, 2018 19:43:08 GMT -5
Thanks twotimesone. I'll try to put it in a shorter summary. it sounds like: Ricky and nurseM had great sex and a great relationship when living separately . Then when together all the "shared" responsibilities are not being shared. According to the wife's standards. No input on Ricky from this.
Lets give her the benefit of the doubt. It's still all up to "the wife's" standards. I don't hear much respectful, communication,coming to mutual agreements.
When these standards are not met,completely decided upon (controlled) by the Wife, more CONTROL takes over. Hence the no sex. Dividing the two of them further and further.
I dream of being with someone who would enjoy doing household chores and child raising BESIDE ME- literally. Not across the room , or separate at different times of the day, or separated while one sits and the other works due to "exhaustion". ( voice of experience) Teaching kids to read, science projects, learning to ride a bike, raking leaves, folding laundry, making the bed, cleaning dishes, cooking dinners,etc...saying intimate things to one another, touching each other, praising each other. My kids and I have, and continue to do things side by side, together ( I got to show my 16 yr old son how to iron a shirt the other day) standing side by side.
Too bad it has to sound so un-atainable that it's called "a dream".
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Post by shamwow on Jan 7, 2018 20:03:04 GMT -5
Greatcoastal, Great thread. NurseM says that she is the victim here but I see that she is probably more of a problem in the marriage. Making your husband to be a slave in the household is a disaster waiting to happen. There's too much political correctness on how a husband should be but not much mentioned on duties as a wife should be. Unfortunately, there's too much "Happy Wife, Happy Life" BS running around and often times husbands are left in the wayside. Too many women think that a divorce or punishing your H will solve the problem but it will make it worse. That's a really interesting point. Earlier today, I was chatting with ballofconfusion on the phone about how several recent threads here are interrelated. What is a good age for the kids and divorce? How do we model marriage to our kids? And this one...how much should a husband kowtow to his wife in order to achieve marital bliss (i.e. happy wife happy life). Right now, ballofconfusion life 1300 miles apart and basically fly to see each other twice a month. That is an example of overcoming an obstacle because you desire someone. But one thing our 45 years of combined SM have taught us is patience. In 2 1/2 years, her youngest graduates high school. The current plan is at that point, she moves to Houston and we move in together. At that point, my son will be a sophomore in high school. ballofconfusion will not be a step mom. We won't be getting married, but my son will get to see something different than what he saw with his mother and I. He will see a couple treating each other with love and respect. He will come to expect that love and respect in the relationships he will have in his own life. If I had stayed on the "college plan" he would never have the opportunity to see how a loving relationship works. His only example would be "happy wife happy life" and as a result, be quite likely to fall into that same pattern. Pretty unhappy life, by the way. Well, fuck that. This, at least, is one area where I hope my son strays as far from my footsteps as he possibly can. What's interesting, though, is that this isn't some male big-dick, chest-pounding view. ballofconfusion is the one who pointed out how good this will be for him. Oh, and some of you may point out: "Shammy, you are talking about events that may or may not happen. After all, we are talking 2 1/2 years in the future." Fair enough. But keep in mind, I first started talking with ballofconfusion almost a year ago. We have been dating for about 6 months now, which is when we started talking about this plan. That means we're 1/6 of the way through the plan. Sure, anything can happen, but you know what? We have patience. I think we will make it. Baby, I love you.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 7, 2018 20:59:15 GMT -5
Hopefully she’s learned that if she’s not having sex with him then he’s on the market. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist. And whatever the excuses, it’s basically a cause affect situation. This sparks up more thoughts about "the beginning years" of my marriage. It makes me think about Ricky and nurseM. I waited 2 1/2 years of dating my W. and marrying a virgin until Sex. I was not a virgin.( I had a previous relationship for 3 1/2 yrs where every time we were together sex was part of our day.) My W and I quickly ended up, only having sex about once a week. (Happy wife happy life) Meanwhile my desire for my W could have been answered 3 times a day. (What is that? A 2000% decrease!) It makes me think ,"when was the last time I had sex at night and then again in the morning?" Only once, 36 yrs ago. When was the last time I had sex twice in one day? Never. Yet I was designed and capable of 3 times a day. It's kind of tragic, how little the need and desire is spoken about and made fun of. " That's all you ever think about!" Porn was something I was introduced to at the young age of 13. (considered young, back in the day) Porn was highly available to me to "fill the need, enough to get the job done and still have a strong desire for my W " While my W remained happy with once a week. More sex ,come procreation time. Then down to once a year, then even less. Once she found out about any porn, it was more ammunition to CONTROL sex and intimacy even more by decreasing sex more and more. A crutch used in the name of religion. For her it meant, Zero blame, zero responsibility, zero understanding, zero empathy, zero effort. Just more of that "convenient mask" to hide her own past, and present problems behind. Oh I managed to be porn free for years at a time, while remaining sexless. But I was on the market. Not for another Woman but for porn again. A cause and effect situation. And here we are, ending it all.
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Post by twotimesone on Jan 7, 2018 21:37:42 GMT -5
Greatcoastal, Great thread. NurseM says that she is the victim here but I see that she is probably more of a problem in the marriage. Making your husband to be a slave in the household is a disaster waiting to happen. There's too much political correctness on how a husband should be but not much mentioned on duties as a wife should be. Unfortunately, there's too much "Happy Wife, Happy Life" BS running around and often times husbands are left in the wayside. Too many women think that a divorce or punishing your H will solve the problem but it will make it worse. That's a really interesting point. Earlier today, I was chatting with ballofconfusion on the phone about how several recent threads here are interrelated. What is a good age for the kids and divorce? How do we model marriage to our kids? And this one...how much should a husband kowtow to his wife in order to achieve marital bliss (i.e. happy wife happy life). Right now, ballofconfusion life 1300 miles apart and basically fly to see each other twice a month. That is an example of overcoming an obstacle because you desire someone. But one thing our 45 years of combined SM have taught us is patience. In 2 1/2 years, her youngest graduates high school. The current plan is at that point, she moves to Houston and we move in together. At that point, my son will be a sophomore in high school. ballofconfusion will not be a step mom. We won't be getting married, but my son will get to see something different than what he saw with his mother and I. He will see a couple treating each other with love and respect. He will come to expect that love and respect in the relationships he will have in his own life. If I had stayed on the "college plan" he would never have the opportunity to see how a loving relationship works. His only example would be "happy wife happy life" and as a result, be quite likely to fall into that same pattern. Pretty unhappy life, by the way. Well, fuck that. This, at least, is one area where I hope my son strays as far from my footsteps as he possibly can. What's interesting, though, is that this isn't some male big-dick, chest-pounding view. ballofconfusion is the one who pointed out how good this will be for him. Oh, and some of you may point out: "Shammy, you are talking about events that may or may not happen. After all, we are talking 2 1/2 years in the future." Fair enough. But keep in mind, I first started talking with ballofconfusion almost a year ago. We have been dating for about 6 months now, which is when we started talking about this plan. That means we're 1/6 of the way through the plan. Sure, anything can happen, but you know what? We have patience. I think we will make it. Baby, I love you. Yesterday, I had an incident with my wife that made me realize that I don't have a backbone against my wife. It was a cold day yesterday and my W hates the cold. I can do a 10 minute cold walk to school or me but my W wants to drive both me and my son to School so I can walk my son and drop him off. I told my W that I am not going and she is going to take him himself so I sent my son downstairs to the car. My W calls the house and screams at me to come downstairs so I did. After we come back into the house and of course her hands is cold and wants to put her hands in my armpits to get warm, I told her no and she screamed again. She could've put her hands on the heater and she would've been warm but I relented in doing this kind of charade. Later that night I was watching "An Ear for Men" in the youtube channel and I realized that I just don't have the backbone to stand up to this kind of BS. I told my W that I either me or my W will take my son to school, not both at the same time and she was fine. Let's see what's going to happen next week. But the thing is that in my marriage I really try to be accomodating to my W but sometimes if I let my W step all over me over this over this minor thing, deep inside my wife lose respect over me. Heck I lose respect over myself. The guy in the youtube channel says that women love men aholes because they can say no all the time and lose respect on the man who allows the woman who walks all over him. Maybe I should be that ahole. When I read the thread about how Ricky have to grovel and apologize about his "online affair" and NurseM seems to be berating her H about this, maybe Ricky should have a backbone too.
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Post by ihadalove on Jan 7, 2018 22:53:35 GMT -5
You seem to think the sexlessness is all on him not meeting your needs. I don’t really hear any personal responsibility for your withholding, regardless of his actions. This was my thought too. If she really wants him as much as she says, they'd be having sex. People who want to get it on with each other will, regardless of exhaustion, kids, petty fighting, etc. Why? Because they both want it. It seems like this isn't as much of a priority as claimed.
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Post by twotimesone on Jan 7, 2018 23:08:38 GMT -5
I hope Ricky would watch this "An Ear for Men" youtube video and realize that apologizing to NurseM is a mistake. NurseM is trying to shame on Ricky and Ricky lacks any backbone to justify why he did what he did. I am not saying that what Ricky did was right, but it is not 100% his fault nor it is any close to 50% for that matter.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2018 23:22:32 GMT -5
This thread is taking an interesting turn. I imagine that as SM survivors, we each have a tendency to project our own hurts and experiences onto this story. But if we look at all the facts lined up next to one another, I think it’s fair to say that both Ricky and NurseM are at fault here. After all, there are two people in every marriage and therefore both need to take responsibility.
I give NurseM major credit for coming here to tell her side of the story to the wolves, as it were. The last several posts attempt to place all blame on her but never mention Ricky’s habitual dishonesty, “she male porn” (I confess I have no idea what that is), affair that lasted a year, and failure to make real efforts at fixing the SM. Nevermind the fact that NurseM works full time and comes home to raise HIS 3 kids plus her own special needs child!
My point is just that there are 2 sides to the story here and 2 people who need to be accountable and bring their best efforts to the table/bed. Men are not “owed” sex anymore than women are. You don’t get to be a total jerk to your spouse and then demand sex. I don’t care what your gender is. You first have to create some desire and cultivate a relationship (kind of like when you were dating). Marriage isn’t an excuse to drop all decorum but still expect all the benefits of new romance (i.e., frequent sex).
I can’t stand the saying “happy wife; happy life.” I don’t think anyone understands what it means. It is widely interpreted by both men and women to mean that men should do whatever their wives want in order to keep the peace. Doesn’t work that way in my world nor would I want it to. That saying makes wives out to be no better than impetuous toddlers. No thanks.
Instead, both partners need to make efforts to love, serve, and care for one another. If both partners are always actively working to make the other happy, everyone’s needs are met and that includes plenty of love-making.
This story doesn’t seem like the typical ILIASM story. Most of our partners won’t even discuss the subject. They checked out ages ago. So I have hope for these 2. And I give them both a lot of credit for each admitting fault and for being accountable.
Best of luck to both!! And thank you for being brave and sharing your story with us.
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Post by lwoetin on Jan 8, 2018 1:34:04 GMT -5
We have now laid everything on the table & agreed neither of us want a divorce.... That's wonderful news, NurseM. Good luck to you both and your kids.
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NurseM
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Age Range: 41-45
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Post by NurseM on Jan 8, 2018 8:08:04 GMT -5
Ouch! Some of you wolves leave a sting with your bite/s! Prior to marrying ricky2669 both of us were married for 17 yrs so this isn't our 1st rodeo of issues. Some of you totally hit the nail on the head when you said he has lacked backbone. He admits this & why shouldn't he when he never really brought the seriousness of his needs to me. He resented me yet he never gave me a fighting chance to correct my behavior. Listen it's always easier to see things for what they are when you're the outsider looking in. When you're ctually living it it's difficult to see things as clearly. Why do all of you suppose I keep returning to read your comments even though there are those that through all of your pain & bitterness lash out at me? It's not because I enjoy being judged, blamed or ridiculed! I hear you! Honestly there's not enough room here to tell the entire story. I will say Ricky is no slave in our home, (with the exception of our S&M lifestyle where we both take turns because we both have a dominant side.) There is nothing wrong with a woman expecting a man to do his part in a second marriage where he has primary physical custody of his 3 children. Hell, even when there aren't any children at all! You men have PLENTY of expectations placed on your wives too! My point is, as much as I don't want to admit it, we ALL give to get in a marriage atleast to some degree. I'm not talking about withholding sex from my husband. I don't agree that's right nor have I ever intentionally thought, "I am going use that as a form of punishment!" Although he admits he HAS felt that way. For those of you who have been following our story & know most of the details others are commenting on things they know nothing about. I have remained on this thread to learn what not to do. Throughout all of this he & I have remained close, kind to one another, we laugh all the time & we spend our lives dedicated to our 4 kids. Instead of my husband communicating his internal desires & gripes with me he was buying me gifts, sending lengthy emails, texts, audio messages, quotes & songs so how was I to know when I'm living in the day-to-day struggles that I was failing miserably at meeting his MOST IMPORTANT need? Of course I know that men need sex, but I allowed myself to get so caught up in the challenges of daily life I TOOK MY HUSBAND FOR GRANTED! I messed up TOO! I acknowledge this! greatcoastal as a previous divorcee I HAVE attended divorce recovery class. Domestic abuse is not comparable to mine & ricky2669 's situation. I'm not even going to respond to that comment itself. I will say that he betrayed me when instead of confiding in me, his wife, the one he had a problem with & chose to confide in another woman while carrying on a sexually fueled online affair for a year! Then he threw me to the wolves tearing me down behind my back! You cannot justify that behavior! & it hurt me deeply. Had he come to me & I did nothing about it & he resorted to that is another story. Also my, "giving in," to meet our needs was taken out of context. What I meant was I am allowing myself to relax & let go of the chaos to focus solely on, "us." @elle "shemale," porn is a term primarily used in sex work to describe a transgender woman with male genitalia & female secondary sex characteristics, usually including breasts from augmentation or use of hormones. I have no problem with my husband watching adult pornography. The problem I have is his dishonesty about it, ie., he was watching things like that before I met him & didn't discuss it with me prior to our being married. It's not that he is bisexual or gay he likes things that are taboo so to speak. My sister is gay & I have no opinion to offer on how someone other than my husband lives their life. It's not about that at all. I would've liked to have known about said fantasies beforehand is all I'm saying. The commentors on here that complain of, "being in a s/m to your wife for decades," my question is... have you closely examined yourself? You guys have been quick to judge me for my mistakes, but if your living your life & continue to experience the same outcome day after day, year after year it causes me to wonder if you've worked on that, "plank," in your own eye? We maintain our appearances, wear each other's favorite scents, always try to respond in a kind manner regardless of our moods. We still experience butterflies when we look at one another in spite of our bumps in the road. My husband is still hot. He's very attentive. We buy gifts for no reason based upon a randon comment one of us makes during conversation. Things like that are extremely thoughtful gestures that reminds each of us that we were actually listening to one another. I realize your issues go way beyond the small things & gifts are irrelevant at your point, but as a woman it is often about the little things that equal the big things. We got caught up in the chaos & all of this has made me realize what's important to my husband & also to me. I'm deeply in love with him & our family. His needs ARE important to me & have now become a priority. I'm not perfect, but I do learn from my mistakes & if our marriage fails it won't be due to me repeating the same ones twice!
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Post by h on Jan 8, 2018 8:33:32 GMT -5
NurseM I greatly appreciate your courage in opening yourself up to the "wolf pack" and it sounds like you both are still committed to working on your marriage. I sincerely hope that your story is one of success and hope to hear about it as it progresses. Best wishes for you both.
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Post by csl on Jan 8, 2018 9:36:39 GMT -5
... but how can I believe him when he lies about everything? I am open to advice, but I am so devastated that if you're going to rip me apart...please just spare me. We have his posts from last year and we have your posts from this year. Either both of you post, or make appointments with counselors. Something just doesn't add up. "He that speaks first in his own cause seems just; until his neighbor comes and examines him." (Prov. 18.17) Again, we are getting one person's side. The last time Ricky posted was in August, 2017. We are, again, getting just one side of the story.
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