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Post by shamwow on Jan 6, 2018 0:39:23 GMT -5
This thread is making me feel slightly uneasy. It's all to easy to be selective about what we disclose here, knowing that in general none of it is verifiable *unless* our partners happen to come along and state their side of the case, and that doesn't happen very often, fortunately (this is a support group after all). Would I be happy if my wife started responding to my posts on here? Not at all. Her perspective is different. As Ricky and Nurse have amply demonstrated, things can be substantially more messy than they first seem. Maybe we should all have an amnesty on things that we have omitted to mention thus far. My inventory (I think I have mentioned most of them already but here goes): -massively over-fixated on work/career in first years of our marriage, to detriment of caring for wife and kids -suffered from periods of quite severe anxiety/depression with time off work (ironically) -insufficiently sensitive to wife's distress following miscarriage x2, early menopause -had emotional affair with work colleague over period of months -drove through family relocation in face of some opposition from my wife -(in her eyes) poor attitude to domestic issues such as cleaning/yard work/maintenance W says I never apologise/apologised for any of these things, though I believe I tried. When you look at it, though, is it any wonder she doesn't want to have sex with me? On the opposite side: I believe I have addressed these issues: I changed my work, sorted out my mental health, no more affairs, no more relocations, I try to be caring, try to have a better attitude to housework. Still no sex. And my issue is that she won't talk to me about it despite numerous attempts at couple counselling and trying to get her to negotiate. I've written a couple thousand posts here I think. Have I disparaged my now ex-wife? Yup. That's why she has the title "ex'. Would I be ashamed if she were to stumble across my posts? Nope. Hell, I use my actual photo (and yes, I really AM that sexy). The reason I'm not embarrassed is that I've said just about all of it to her, to her face. I've also listed my own failings and thing I may have done to contribute to the failure of the marriage. If she ever finds these posts I'm positive her perspective may be different than mine. But in the end she made it intolerable to stay. It's on both of us. After all, it was OUR marriage. I'd guess that this couple is headed to the same destination. Not because either is right and the other is wrong but because neither of them will own it and neither will take care of their own shit.
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listedship
Junior Member
Posts: 38
Age Range: 41-45
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Post by listedship on Jan 6, 2018 12:59:47 GMT -5
I have read through this post and my fist thought when NurseM - who I believe was @account1 showed up was, what a lucky guy ricky2669 was to have a response, to know her concerns, to hear her side. How fortunate for him. What an opportunity for both to read each other's true feelings. I think it would be incredible to hear why my refuser wants to remain in my life, wants control, but absolutely refuses any form of intimacy. I can't tell you how many conversations have taken place. It has turned into total silence from my spouse (we drive at least an hour together every day. She has quit spending the whole time on FB after I suggested we should spend the time talking to each other, which apparently meant that I should initiate an hour of conversation, because she has "nothing to say"). Now she likes to be a martyr for having to deal with my questions regarding our sex life, being touched, and intimacy saying she does not want to talk about sex, does not like to talk to anyone about this topic. (That makes it all better) If some skin to skin contact does occur for some random reason, it is pointed out as so amazing an effort on her part to touch me, and how she thinks we are intimate, I am just overly sensitive. I think the fact that ricky2669 said they have only been intimate 2x in a year, then NurseM acknowledged this, but came back with I am exhausted, I have needs too sheds light that she may not have been fair, that him looking did not help, that kids ARE an issue in their intimacy, and that it seems neither is making a big effort to comfort, console and entice the other to be intimate/sexual. I think this is more a situation of the glass is half full, while many seem to be viewing as half empty.
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Post by shamwow on Jan 6, 2018 21:45:55 GMT -5
I have read through this post and my fist thought when NurseM - who I believe was @account1 showed up was, what a lucky guy ricky2669 was to have a response, to know her concerns, to hear her side. How fortunate for him. What an opportunity for both to read each other's true feelings. I think it would be incredible to hear why my refuser wants to remain in my life, wants control, but absolutely refuses any form of intimacy. I can't tell you how many conversations have taken place. It has turned into total silence from my spouse (we drive at least an hour together every day. She has quit spending the whole time on FB after I suggested we should spend the time talking to each other, which apparently meant that I should initiate an hour of conversation, because she has "nothing to say"). Now she likes to be a martyr for having to deal with my questions regarding our sex life, being touched, and intimacy saying she does not want to talk about sex, does not like to talk to anyone about this topic. (That makes it all better) If some skin to skin contact does occur for some random reason, it is pointed out as so amazing an effort on her part to touch me, and how she thinks we are intimate, I am just overly sensitive. I think the fact that ricky2669 said they have only been intimate 2x in a year, then NurseM acknowledged this, but came back with I am exhausted, I have needs too sheds light that she may not have been fair, that him looking did not help, that kids ARE an issue in their intimacy, and that it seems neither is making a big effort to comfort, console and entice the other to be intimate/sexual. I think this is more a situation of the glass is half full, while many seem to be viewing as half empty. And it matters not if neither addresses the crack running down the side all the way to the base of the glass.
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Post by baza on Jan 6, 2018 22:17:38 GMT -5
And half full/empty of *what* ?
Sparkling pure Evian water ? Stale piss ?
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jan 7, 2018 0:35:29 GMT -5
This half-full vs half-empty question is really why I was “excited” to read NurseM’s posts. To me it meant: she cared enough to “snoop” (although the lack of trust this conveys also makes this a bad sign), was enraged at what she found (indicating... at least she FELT something - not like my Ex, dispassionately logically cold), she was brave enough to make her own account & post on his thread (so she’ll see notifications & likely follow the thread as it develops). This is a level of interest & interaction that I think most refusers would simply not go to this level of effort or involvement. I saw this as a lot of half-full indicators. Then again - seems the lack of trust is well-founded and our original post from Ricky may have been half-truths or convenient omissions - so those are half-empty indicators. Still very rare glimpse of a couple that stands more than average chance at making a turnaround...IF they are willing to work for it. Interesting that Ricky has not chimed in for so long. I’m curious, & admit I’m a little optimistic for them. Still - I’m glad to be out of my own SM, but I do have a nice romantic bend that hopes they can make this work.
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Post by wom360 on Jan 7, 2018 0:52:22 GMT -5
Hopefully she’s learned that if she’s not having sex with him then he’s on the market. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist. And whatever the excuses, it’s basically a cause affect situation.
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NurseM
New Member
Married
Posts: 8
Age Range: 41-45
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Post by NurseM on Jan 7, 2018 6:55:41 GMT -5
Is NurseM and @myaccount1 the same person? That's my conclusion, yes.
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Post by jim44444 on Jan 7, 2018 9:19:03 GMT -5
Hopefully she’s learned that if she’s not having sex with him then he’s on the market. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist. And whatever the excuses, it’s basically a cause affect situation. Hopefully he has learned that if he does not pull his head out of his lying ass then NurseM will be on the market. She has stated that she wants and likes sex. She said she is into S&M but dumbass Ricky wants to watch shemale porn. If she is a nurse as her username suggests then quite possibly the exhaustion she speaks of is the exhaustion produced from the depletion of empathy. If she spends the day taking care of the sick and dying only to come home and take care of the house and children then her capacity to give a fuck about ricky's needs will be near zero. Maybe if he would man up and share the after work duties then her "love tank" would be replenished and she would put on a corset and heels.
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NurseM
New Member
Married
Posts: 8
Age Range: 41-45
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Post by NurseM on Jan 7, 2018 9:28:50 GMT -5
Ok, for starters @account1 & NurseM ARE both me. I found ricky2669 post/s, (admittedly background searching his online activity & yes he was made aware of it, but underestimated my computer skills.) Furious & devastated at the content & remarks I mistakingly created 2 accts in an attempt to respond. I haven't taken the time to delete myaccount1. I apologize in advance for my wordy posts. In response to the comment that I, "chose to adopt a special needs child," I did not. I was never able to get pregnant due to my own infertility issues which resulted in my 1st husband of 17 yrs & I adopting him at birth. Regardless, it could always be worse & worse is not what comes to mind when I think of my son. He is actually, "higher functioning." I use that term loosely b/c he can talk. He does not have, "Classic Autism," he has approx 15 different diagnoses that collectively gives him the primary diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder & YES it is extremely challenging! Moving forward, I appreciate everyone taking time to provide feedback. ricky2669 is aware of my being on here & is ashamed of his throwing me to the wolves & allowing me to be pulled apart by many on all of his posts instead of protecting me. For those wondering I do have a personal history of sexual abuse & yes I have been to counseling earlier in life. I had infertility issues & have Crohn's disease. None of these define me anymore. Have they affected me? Yes. All but the Crohn's is my past & may explain the reason for some of my sexual dysfunction, but ricky2669 changed all of that for me. He is totally different than any other man I've ever been with. To lift him up for a minute he possesses unique characteristics not found in most men. He is attentive, caring, compassionate, a great listener, my bestfriend & hands down greatest lover I've EVER had. How he treated me from the beginning is what made me react towards him in a way I've never been towards a man. How could any person turn down such an amazing man even when exhausted or sick? I couldn't & I didn't. He fulfilled me in ways I never knew existed. Together we share a chemistry that could catch our surroundings on fire! What changed as I mentioned in my 2nd post is he is not one to follow through on things that matter a great deal to me. Women tend to believe we are showing love not just by sex, but by the hundreds of tasks we accomplish daily for our men & family, (even when they didn't ask us to in the first place.) Bottom line, men feel loved with sex & attention. Acknowledgment is one of the most important things I need from my partner aside from the obvious such as trust, emotional stability, the list goes on. ricky2669 provided that to me in the beginning. But as I made the critical mistake of taking on his responsibilities in addition to my own I expected him to step up then began to resent him when he didn't. I did go to him countless times & explained exactly what I needed from him. He made empty promises. After recovering financially from our previous divorces he has never owned a home so I did all the paperwork & we purchased one. He has a beautiful family, faithfully devoted wife, the truck he always dreamt of having & a wonderful career. He just didn't want to do the work it took to have a healthy sex life. I admit I fell into a depression. He disconnected by hyper focusing on his phone. Meanwhile I continued to burn myself out going from 1 child to 4 & everything else I mentioned in my previous posts. I do acknowledge he does do more things around the house than most men. ABSOLUTELY I have not chosen my battles wisely in our blended family. I thought I was going to be a stepmother I had no idea I was going to become a primary parent because of her absenteeism & I sank! I had the best intentions & I failed miserably. I trusted him & I admit we only had sex 6 times in that yr, (not twice as he stated.) My religion does warn if you withhold yourself from your husband you will tempt him. I honestly did not do it as a form of punishment, but I do admit I was not connecting with him because he was not meeting my needs. September 2017 he admitted to having an online affair that lasted approximately 6 weeks. We went to counseling, I gave it my all & we got back on track with things being better than ever & our sex life amazing. But given the opportunity to lay everything on the table so that we could move forward he still had not been completely honest. Knowing in my heart & given his history of lying, I just couldn't find closure. I needed the whole truth in order to leave thing's in the past, which in turn led me to this site. Yesterday he finally admitted to having an online affair on & off for a YEAR, as well as browsing the dating ads on Craigslist. He adamantly denies ever having a physical affair with anyone. & to be honest the only time we're apart is when we are at work. This has created a MAJOR setback! He cheated & he lied! I was willing to forgive him, but because he had not been completely honest before, now, 3 months after the fact this bombshell lands in our lives. I probably should have let things go but my gut instinct fueled me to find the truth. At the very least I deserve that much. He admitted he took me for granted. He made a horrible decision & realizes just how much he hurt me & would never do that again. He doesn't want a divorce. If any other woman told me my story I would have told her to leave him!! If capable of all this then I wouldn't believe he had not had a physical affair. But I stand to lose the man I have loved so deeply for 4 yrs & his 3 children. Regardless of my faults he agrees I am NOT responsible for his poor choices. He chose to do this instead of putting in the effort to help make our marriage successful. He did the exact same thing in his last marriage so can a man change if he's spent 41 yrs leading a double life?
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Post by twotimesone on Jan 7, 2018 10:03:07 GMT -5
Ok, for starters @account1 & NurseM ARE both me. I found ricky2669 post/s, (admittedly background searching his online activity & yes he was made aware of it, but underestimated my computer skills.) Furious & devastated at the content & remarks I mistakingly created 2 accts in an attempt to respond. I haven't taken the time to delete myaccount1. I apologize in advance for my wordy posts. In response to the comment that I, "chose to adopt a special needs child," I did not. I was never able to get pregnant due to my own infertility issues which resulted in my 1st husband of 17 yrs & I adopting him at birth. Regardless, it could always be worse & worse is not what comes to mind when I think of my son. He is actually, "higher functioning." I use that term loosely b/c he can talk. He does not have, "Classic Autism," he has approx 15 different diagnoses that collectively gives him the primary diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder & YES it is extremely challenging! Moving forward, I appreciate everyone taking time to provide feedback. ricky2669 is aware of my being on here & is ashamed of his throwing me to the wolves & allowing me to be pulled apart by many on all of his posts instead of protecting me. For those wondering I do have a personal history of sexual abuse & yes I have been to counseling earlier in life. I had infertility issues & have Crohn's disease. None of these define me anymore. Have they affected me? Yes. All but the Crohn's is my past & may explain the reason for some of my sexual dysfunction, but ricky2669 changed all of that for me. He is totally different than any other man I've ever been with. To lift him up for a minute he possesses unique characteristics not found in most men. He is attentive, caring, compassionate, a great listener, my bestfriend & hands down greatest lover I've EVER had. How he treated me from the beginning is what made me react towards him in a way I've never been towards a man. How could any person turn down such an amazing man even when exhausted or sick? I couldn't & I didn't. He fulfilled me in ways I never knew existed. Together we share a chemistry that could catch our surroundings on fire! What changed as I mentioned in my 2nd post is he is not one to follow through on things that matter a great deal to me. Women tend to believe we are showing love not just by sex, but by the hundreds of tasks we accomplish daily for our men & family, (even when they didn't ask us to in the first place.) Bottom line, men feel loved with sex & attention. Acknowledgment is one of the most important things I need from my partner aside from the obvious such as trust, emotional stability, the list goes on. ricky2669 provided that to me in the beginning. But as I made the critical mistake of taking on his responsibilities in addition to my own I expected him to step up then began to resent him when he didn't. I did go to him countless times & explained exactly what I needed from him. He made empty promises. After recovering financially from our previous divorces he has never owned a home so I did all the paperwork & we purchased one. He has a beautiful family, faithfully devoted wife, the truck he always dreamt of having & a wonderful career. He just didn't want to do the work it took to have a healthy sex life. I admit I fell into a depression. He disconnected by hyper focusing on his phone. Meanwhile I continued to burn myself out going from 1 child to 4 & everything else I mentioned in my previous posts. I do acknowledge he does do more things around the house than most men. ABSOLUTELY I have not chosen my battles wisely in our blended family. I thought I was going to be a stepmother I had no idea I was going to become a primary parent because of her absenteeism & I sank! I had the best intentions & I failed miserably. I trusted him & I admit we only had sex 6 times in that yr, (not twice as he stated.) My religion does warn if you withhold yourself from your husband you will tempt him. I honestly did not do it as a form of punishment, but I do admit I was not connecting with him because he was not meeting my needs. September 2017 he admitted to having an online affair that lasted approximately 6 weeks. We went to counseling, I gave it my all & we got back on track with things being better than ever & our sex life amazing. But given the opportunity to lay everything on the table so that we could move forward he still had not been completely honest. Knowing in my heart & given his history of lying, I just couldn't find closure. I needed the whole truth in order to leave thing's in the past, which in turn led me to this site. Yesterday he finally admitted to having an online affair on & off for a YEAR, as well as browsing the dating ads on Craigslist. He adamantly denies ever having a physical affair with anyone. & to be honest the only time we're apart is when we are at work. This has created a MAJOR setback! He cheated & he lied! I was willing to forgive him, but because he had not been completely honest before, now, 3 months after the fact this bombshell lands in our lives. I probably should have let things go but my gut instinct fueled me to find the truth. At the very least I deserve that much. He admitted he took me for granted. He made a horrible decision & realizes just how much he hurt me & would never do that again. He doesn't want a divorce. If any other woman told me my story I would have told her to leave him!! If capable of all this then I wouldn't believe he had not had a physical affair. But I stand to lose the man I have loved so deeply for 4 yrs & his 3 children. Regardless of my faults he agrees I am NOT responsible for his poor choices. He chose to do this instead of putting in the effort to help make our marriage successful. He did the exact same thing in his last marriage so can a man change if he's spent 41 yrs leading a double life? I'm going to make an opinion from my experience as a H in the marriage so some of you ladies might be offended. You mentioned that you take care of the kids and it really stresses you out. Have you asked your husband to help out and or even have someone else like a family or friend to help you take care of the kids? Oh wait, nobody can be a better mommy than me. So much so that you can't be a wife to your husband. For me, I asked my W numerous times of why can't we take the kids to a friend and family members while we go out for a few hours. Sometimes to be in control of your life, you have to give control to others and you don't seem like you have that covered. Have you ever thought why men go on "online affairs"? Search around to the internet and most people including me, says they do that to actually stay in the marriage. For me, I was so frustrated that I am not getting any at home because my W abstained sex all the time that I outsource. The easiest way for a H to have these "online affairs" is to start 'punishing' your husband by withholding sex. You can blame him for having an "online affair" but the chicken before the egg question is if you had denied him in sex. If you had, then you are equally as much as fault as him for doing this. I doubt that you H wants to marry any one of the women or wants to dump you for them. Otherwise, your H will be talking to a lawyer instead of going to craigslist.
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Post by h on Jan 7, 2018 11:35:50 GMT -5
NurseM no need to apologise for long wordy posts. Sometimes you just have to let it all out and need the details to make the story. It really annoys me when I see guys act like your H and then play the victim after only giving part of the story or half-truths. I cook all the meals in our house, do all the laundry, home repairs, and at least half of the dishes. We have had so little sex in our entire marriage that we have no children. I don't know if we are physically able to have children due to her past medical history but I'm not going to waste a trip to a doctor when we have never even really "tried" to get pregnant. On the plus side for you, at least you know what a decent sex life looks like so you have some goal to work towards. On the negative side though, your story is understandable. I feel for you and would not be as forgiving as you if I were in your shoes. Once trust is broken it's very hard to rebuild. The funny thing is that my W spent the first 5 years of our marriage not trusting me even though I have never given her any reason not to. I don't even have any female friends. Males in her past were cheaters and she assumed that all males were the same. I still have nothing in my life either in person or online that would qualify as a close relationship with any woman. If I found out that my W had a closer than acceptable relationship with another man, I would end it without any discussion. There's nothing left in the marriage that's good enough to make up for that kind of betrayal.
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Post by shamwow on Jan 7, 2018 12:28:14 GMT -5
Hopefully she’s learned that if she’s not having sex with him then he’s on the market. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist. And whatever the excuses, it’s basically a cause affect situation. A little like my sisters response upon learning about my SM and (then) upcoming divorce. The first thing out of her mouth was: "What the hell did she THINK would happen?"
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NurseM
New Member
Married
Posts: 8
Age Range: 41-45
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Post by NurseM on Jan 7, 2018 12:45:24 GMT -5
We have now laid everything on the table & agreed neither of us want a divorce. What started all of this to begin with is he has never brought anything to me, ie., I have always been verbal, but he has only ever responded with what he thought I wanted to hear. Never anything close to what he posted on here. He never gave me the opportunity to make changes because he has never been fully honest. So after 4 yrs I guess we will start anew & only time will tell if he can remain honest, forthright & trustworthy.
I don't want to be where you all are. Not now & certainly not 20 yrs from now. As for the last users post I'm sorry to hear of your wife's inability to trust you or even provide intimacy. We all need to feel loved & wanted. I do know after 15 yrs in my profession of nursing I have heard many reasons especially while working in ob/gyn. The main complaint I hear is that women have no libido. I cover numerous specialties & will have to make time to go into what I hear both genders complain of at a later time.
For me when my husband is attentive, caring & thoughtful I cannot say no to him. In Sept. when he partially admitted to some of what he had done we changed our routine. When we came home from work & we spent an hour together away from the kids before starting homework, dinner, showers, kids arguing, the usual night time chaos. This prevented us, (mainly me,) from feeling so mentally depleted from our work day, then an entire night of chaos with our 4 kids. It worked. I allowed myself to give into whatever he & I want. Now we have to sort thru the damaged aftermath of his infidelity.
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 7, 2018 15:21:22 GMT -5
NurseM, I wish you both the best as you try to heal your marriage. You both are already ahead of what many here experienced with their SNs: you and your partner still love each other, desire each other and are willing to now talk honestly with each other about your needs. I never got that from my refuser ex no matter how much I tried, even in marital counseling, to get him to say why he wouldn’t make love.
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Post by wom360 on Jan 7, 2018 15:27:49 GMT -5
You seem to think the sexlessness is all on him not meeting your needs. I don’t really hear any personal responsibility for your withholding, regardless of his actions.
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