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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 29, 2016 8:57:19 GMT -5
Remember to blame yourself some too. Even if it's that you, agree to much, give in to much, try to get along to much.
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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 31, 2016 12:39:17 GMT -5
"I'M NOT DEPRESSED AND I FEEL LIKE YOU'RE TRYING TO MUNCHAUSEN ME INTO THINKING I AM BECAUSE YOU WANT ME TO BE SICK!!"
We were finally talking, as I'd been working 12-14 hour days all week, and she hadn't spoken to me in person since the end of our couples counseling appointment two days before.
I'd gotten home from work a couple of hours before her, and eager to catch up on household chores I'd neglected, I walked into the bedroom (I've been sleeping in the spare bedroom all week) and my nose was immediately hit with smell of something gone bad. A quick glance told me why- a stack of empty plastic and styrofoam cups on the nightstand on her side of the bed, empty containers on the floor next to the bed that has held takeout sushi, beside thata container of half eaten nachos, and a pizza box on the dresser that had to have been a week old.
When she got home and went right to bed, I took a break from cleaning and went and sat down with her, telling her that I thought she was still depressed and really needed to talk to somebody. That was what led to the blowup above.
"What about all the empty food containers you leave lying around throughout the house? What about the fact you come straight home from work and go directly to bed? What about the fact that you actively avoid doing the things you used to love doing the most?"
I was mad now, and done trying not to hurt her. I should gotten this mad a long time ago.
"That's not me being depressed! That's me just getting lazy and turning into a slob and not wanting to fail at anything any more!"
Ok. That might be even worse. I dropped it, as I clearly wasn't going to make any further ground. I'll bring it up in couples counseling.
The topic of discussion changed to our ongoing lack of every kind of intimacy. She seemed genuinely shocked that my own self-esteem and identity as a husband were tied in so strongly to that intimacy. She turned any looked directly at me, and after a pause, asked,
"Is there any part of you that finds me even remotely attractive right now?"
I thought about it for a long moment before I replied.
"No, I don't think so."
She thanked me for my honest answer, and didn't say anything else about the subject.
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 31, 2016 13:36:19 GMT -5
cagedtiger, and yet we don't run away screaming... I'm right there with ya. I still haven't figured out why it's so hard to do what seems so obviously inevitable.
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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 31, 2016 13:49:50 GMT -5
cagedtiger, and yet we don't run away screaming... I'm right there with ya. I still haven't figured out why it's so hard to do what seems so obviously inevitable. I'm giving the three months suggested by our counselor to completely absolve my conscience that there was something more I could/ would/ should have done.
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Post by eternaloptimism on Jul 31, 2016 14:05:28 GMT -5
I honestly wonder if you will get to 3 months cagedtiger. For you, like for a lot of us here, the process of knowing you have done everything you can to try to make things right is a long and complicated one. x
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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 31, 2016 14:18:24 GMT -5
I honestly wonder if you will get to 3 months cagedtiger. For you, like for a lot of us here, the process of knowing you have done everything you can to try to make things right is a long and complicated one. x I've wondered about that, especially as we've barely scratched the surface of my unhappiness. I've spent a lot of time this weekend writing down that list of"what I want our marriage look like," and I know a lot of it will likely be interpreted by her as attacking or criticizing. As we get deeper into that, it wouldn't surprise me if she asked me later to stay someplace else again.
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Post by eternaloptimism on Jul 31, 2016 14:26:12 GMT -5
It might be for the best. It's so hard to think straight when you're engulfed in it.
I get so frustrated when you can't discuss things honestly because it's taken as criticism. It's like being suffocated.
Hugs xxx
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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 31, 2016 14:37:28 GMT -5
It might be for the best. It's so hard to think straight when you're engulfed in it. I get so frustrated when you can't discuss things honestly because it's taken as criticism. It's like being suffocated. Hugs xxx It'll take her suggesting it, because keeping up appearance. She's petrified by how things look from the outside to those around us, and only told her mom and best friend because i insisted she needed to talk to somebody. If I leave again on my own without another external suggestion, it will do nothing but make get angry, shut down, and unwilling to talk.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2016 14:38:17 GMT -5
It might be for the best. It's so hard to think straight when you're engulfed in it. I get so frustrated when you can't discuss things honestly because it's taken as criticism. It's like being suffocated. Hugs xxx People wonder why I have not had the talk yet... because it WILL be seen as criticism....and I will get put through the ringer....I just avoid her....as much as I can.... the rest is "yes dear".
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Post by unmatched on Jul 31, 2016 16:49:12 GMT -5
The topic of discussion changed to our ongoing lack of every kind of intimacy. She seemed genuinely shocked that my own self-esteem and identity as a husband were tied in so strongly to that intimacy. She turned any looked directly at me, and after a pause, asked, "Is there any part of you that finds me even remotely attractive right now?" I thought about it for a long moment before I replied. "No, I don't think so." She thanked me for my honest answer, and didn't say anything else about the subject. Mission accomplished. She has been trying to put up a wall between herself and life, and between herself and you, and it is working.
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Post by ted on Jul 31, 2016 17:24:21 GMT -5
I honestly wonder if you will get to 3 months cagedtiger . And I honestly wonder if he'll get "complete absolution of his conscience" if he does hang in there for three months. Every time I set a milestone like that for myself, I pass it by and still seem no closer to my goal.
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Post by baza on Jul 31, 2016 18:24:18 GMT -5
Brother ted makes a highly relevant point. In the context of leaving an ILIASM shithole on a basis of having "done everything possible" - or seeking absolution - is probably not achievable. There is always "something more" one could have done, that is the very essence of "why chasing". - Hell, even now 6+ years on, I still will sometimes think - "I wonder what might have happened if I had responded to (insert particular event) earlier and differently". Not in a *regretful* sort of way, more in a speculative or reflective sort of way. - I reckon a subtle change in mindset might be helpful. Rather than "doing everything possible", "doing what one can reasonably expect" is probably a more realistic position to take. And an acknowledgement that absolution (if any) is going to come from yourself, and that is going to take quite some time (it certainly will NOT come within this 90 day period you are looking at) - When / if you leave, you'll not walk away whistling Dixie having put all the emotional issues to bed. That process takes quite a while. A rough rule of thumb is one year of emotional recovery per 5 years of ILIASM shithole emotional abuse. A decent exit counsellor might shorten that period.
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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 31, 2016 19:24:34 GMT -5
To clarify, my home state says you have to be legally separated for a year before you can file for divorce. What we talked about in therapy was taking this next few months to take stock and see if a separation might not be a good idea to provide some distance and perspective on the situation. And seriously, as much as she likes to be left alone, I'm a bit surprised she's not more on board with that.
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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 31, 2016 19:27:03 GMT -5
And baza, as usual your sage advice hits it on the mark. In a lot of ways, I already feel like I've done everything that can be reasonably expected, even from the time before we were married. And I'm fortunate to have you fine folks, and a great circle of friends nearby, who are already braced and ready for the inevitable train wreck I'm likely to become.
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Post by unmatched on Aug 1, 2016 7:19:08 GMT -5
To clarify, my home state says you have to be legally separated for a year before you can file for divorce. What we talked about in therapy was taking this next few months to take stock and see if a separation might not be a good idea to provide some distance and perspective on the situation. And seriously, as much as she likes to be left alone, I'm a bit surprised she's not more on board with that. She must know that if you guys separate, even temporarily, that you are not coming back.
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