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Post by needtoresolve on Jul 26, 2016 11:39:25 GMT -5
To be perfectly honest, if/ when I get single, I'm planning on buying another sports car. However, it won't be a Ferrari, and it'll be because once upon a time I was worrking towards an SCCA racing license. I like things that are fast. And also out of spite, because my wife thinks these cars are "stupid." If you want to play with her head a little, tell her you're thinking about something German or Italian, fast and red. How about an Isetta?  |
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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 27, 2016 9:53:38 GMT -5
First appointment with the new counselor this afternoon. Here's to hoping it's more productive and constructive.
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Post by warmways on Jul 27, 2016 10:13:33 GMT -5
Hope it goes better for you!!
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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 27, 2016 15:40:10 GMT -5
Defensive. Guarded. Closed down. Obviously outside of her comfort zone. But, we've both locked in for at least three months to see what we can make work. I'll throw in my full effort, because that's what I do, and at least that way we'll have a general sense of if it's a sink or swim situation.
She also talked about the therapist she's been seeing for the last year, not mentioning she hasn't seen her in 5 months now... Strange...
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 27, 2016 16:01:41 GMT -5
Defensive. Guarded. Closed down. Obviously outside of her comfort zone. But, we've both locked in for at least three months to see what we can make work. I'll throw in my full effort, because that's what I do, and at least that way we'll have a general sense of if it's a sink or swim situation. She also talked about the therapist she's been seeing for the last year, not mentioning she hasn't seen her in 5 months now... Strange... I take it you were not surprised or disappointed? I mean this is what you have been accustomed to, right? and the 5 months part ,come on, lighten up, now your getting into specifics, let's not go there!! Lol! What was your First impression of this therapist? |
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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 27, 2016 20:32:00 GMT -5
Defensive. Guarded. Closed down. Obviously outside of her comfort zone. But, we've both locked in for at least three months to see what we can make work. I'll throw in my full effort, because that's what I do, and at least that way we'll have a general sense of if it's a sink or swim situation. She also talked about the therapist she's been seeing for the last year, not mentioning she hasn't seen her in 5 months now... Strange... I take it you were not surprised or disappointed? I mean this is what you have been accustomed to, right? and the 5 months part ,come on, lighten up, now your getting into specifics, let's not go there!! Lol! What was your First impression of this therapist? I got a good sense of her really wanting to dig in and get us working hard. And she warned at the beginning that it's going to be a difficult process. But, that's to be expected. Asked my wife for clarification about the whole "I've been seeing a counselor for about a year now and it's helped" thing: Me: You talked about seeing your therapist for the last year plus. Does that mean you've gone back to counseling now with your previous counselor? Her: Not since January. Seemed easier to explain it that way. Me: oh. It felt misleading to me. But have you given any more thought to going back to individual counseling? Her: Misleading is kind of an accusatory word . And I thought you were going to focus more on your counseling than on mine Me: I am, but this new counselor also is operating under the assumption that we're both in individual counseling as well. I was just asking to clarify. I'm not trying to force you to do anything, I was just wondering why you phrased it that way, that's all. I'll bring that up at our next session next week, if it comes up in conversation. |
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 27, 2016 20:46:49 GMT -5
cagedtiger, that bit about her individual therapy put me off. It might have been best to address it on the spot, though confrontation isn't always the most productive approach. Something I've done when I thought important facts needed clarifying... send the therapist a short email to correct the facts. It loops the therapist in for an accurate picture, but doesn't pit you against W and squelch her participation.
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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 27, 2016 20:48:32 GMT -5
cagedtiger , that bit about her individual therapy put me off. It might have been best to address it on the spot, though confrontation isn't always the most productive approach. Something I've done when I though important facts needed clarifying... send the therapist a short email to correct the facts. It loops the therapist in for an accurate picture, but doesn't pit you against W and squelch her participation. I was wondering about that. I'll consider it, and I'll actually ask a friend of mine who's also a therapist what she would suggest. But yeah, it pissed me off how fast she got defensive like that. I didn't say anything right on the spot, because she was finally talking, and I didn't want to interrupt her or make her shut down again. |
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Post by unmatched on Jul 27, 2016 21:40:10 GMT -5
I take it you were not surprised or disappointed? I mean this is what you have been accustomed to, right? and the 5 months part ,come on, lighten up, now your getting into specifics, let's not go there!! Lol! What was your First impression of this therapist? I got a good sense of her really wanting to dig in and get us working hard. And she warned at the beginning that it's going to be a difficult process. But, that's to be expected. Asked my wife for clarification about the whole "I've been seeing a counselor for about a year now and it's helped" thing: Me: You talked about seeing your therapist for the last year plus. Does that mean you've gone back to counseling now with your previous counselor? Her: Not since January. Seemed easier to explain it that way. Me: oh. It felt misleading to me. But have you given any more thought to going back to individual counseling? Her: Misleading is kind of an accusatory word . And I thought you were going to focus more on your counseling than on mine Me: I am, but this new counselor also is operating under the assumption that we're both in individual counseling as well. I was just asking to clarify. I'm not trying to force you to do anything, I was just wondering why you phrased it that way, that's all. I'll bring that up at our next session next week, if it comes up in conversation. Can I be a little rude and play devil's advocate here? When you first mentioned this it rang alarm bells for me that you didn't say anything about it at the time in the session, but I didn't say anything. Now reading this it sounds like you are quite annoyed about it, and not being quite straight. I don't know if this is a more or less verbatim account of your conversation or not, but there is a tone there which says 'I am pissed off about this but I don't quite want to come out and say so and I am going to be all nice although actually I do want you to know that I am pissed off'. If that is true (and sorry if it isn't!), I think it is a fairly typical example of how couples communicate when things aren't going well. But the truth is you want her to be in counselling, you want her to be straight about the fact that she has given it up, and you are pissed off that she lied to the counsellor. And you are probably more pissed off because if she isn't going to be completely straight and open then it doesn't bode well for the counselling as a whole. And all that comes across from what you said, but it kind of comes out sideways. At some point, I imagine, the burden is going to be on your shoulders to start the 'raw honesty' part of the process and face shit like this head on. |
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Post by baza on Jul 27, 2016 21:51:54 GMT -5
Personal anecdote (in support of what Brother unmatched said)
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Back in the day, I managed to think myself in to a circle.
There were many many things in my deal that I wanted to discuss and resolve.
But also, I enjoyed the respite when things were going along alright.
So I shot myself in the foot, in the following manner.
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If my missus seemed in a shitty unresponsive mood, I'd think - "this ain't the time to raise these issues, I'd best wait until she seems in a better frame of mind".
And when that happened (not often), I'd think - "best I don't raise these issues now whilst things are alright lest it plunges her back in to a shitty unresponsive mood".
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End result, the issues did not get raised.
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There is no "good" time to raise difficult issues.
It might as well be done a.s.a.p.
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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 27, 2016 22:24:51 GMT -5
Can I be a little rude and play devil's advocate here? When you first mentioned this it rang alarm bells for me that you didn't say anything about it at the time in the session, but I didn't say anything. Now reading this it sounds like you are quite annoyed about it, and not being quite straight. I don't know if this is a more or less verbatim account of your conversation or not, but there is a tone there which says 'I am pissed off about this but I don't quite want to come out and say so and I am going to be all nice although actually I do want you to know that I am pissed off'. If that is true (and sorry if it isn't!), I think it is a fairly typical example of how couples communicate when things aren't going well. But the truth is you want her to be in counselling, you want her to be straight about the fact that she has given it up, and you are pissed off that she lied to the counsellor. And you are probably more pissed off because if she isn't going to be completely straight and open then it doesn't bode well for the counselling as a whole. And all that comes across from what you said, but it kind of comes out sideways. At some point, I imagine, the burden is going to be on your shoulders to start the 'raw honesty' part of the process and face shit like this head on. No, you're absolutely right, though it took me a while to realize that it did in fact piss me off a good bit. And you're right about needing to be up front about that- part of the reason we're likely in the situation we're in is because I've had the kid gloves on for so long when it comes to dealing with conflict in our relationship. I'm also not afraid to admit that a big part of me is worried that if I push too hard too fast, she'll completely shut down and not give this an honest try, which which mess with my sense of "doing the right thing." The "raw honesty" hasn't worked well with her the last few months, but you're right, it needs to be back there. Next week's gonna be a fun session. |
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Post by unmatched on Jul 27, 2016 22:51:01 GMT -5
cagedtiger I am in exactly the same place. I keep tiptoeing around because I am not sure what she can handle and what will be beneficial and what will just have a negative effect. And then I step back and look at myself and it is just sad. From one point of view I am desperately hoping she is inching towards a place where we can be that honest with each other. And from another point of view she just looks broken and I don't know that we are ever going to have a relationship with real intimacy. So I am with you - I think too much 'raw honesty' could just break everything apart. But I also think the dynamic of the relationship is only helping to keep us both where we are. I also wonder sometimes with depressed or intimacy-phobic spouses how you figure out what is them just being messed up and what is you being manipulated to keep you close enough but not let you get too close. To keep you honest but not too honest. Because let's face it I am sure she doesn't want you to come out and say 'I am pissed off that you lied about still being in counselling'. I think a lot of their emotional reactions may be more about controlling our behaviour than anything else.
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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 27, 2016 23:05:56 GMT -5
I did call her out on a couple of other things during the session, in a raw and honest style, and she shut down really, really fast. Then left the office right after our hour was up, and hasn't spoken to me all evening aside from the above conversation (via Gchat). And yep, I'm sleeping in the spare bedroom tonight. Happily. I'm giving this counseling my full and honest effort, but at the same time, I have no illusions that there's a very good possibility that this is just a "check in the block" on the way to separation.
As for the manipulation, I've been questioning that more and more the last month or two- the friend I stayed with has pointed out a lot of things that are eerily like his ex-wife. And she was definitely controlling of his behavior, without often being consciously aware she was even doing it.
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 27, 2016 23:21:25 GMT -5
Predictable. It's a tough line to tread.
You don't want her to disengage because you air all the dirty laundry. But if you don't, then the therapist is only getting part of the picture... and you're not getting everything you need out of therapy... and your wife leaves with the delusion that everything's been ironed out.
And, checking the box... unless she's sincerely wanting to change (and not out of fear), that's pretty much what it is. She sounds more interested in spinning a good-sounding story than baring the facts and working for change.
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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 29, 2016 8:52:39 GMT -5
Individual therapy now. Get to talk about everything that's happened in the last two weeks.
This should be fun.
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