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Post by ted on Jul 17, 2016 22:47:37 GMT -5
If there was a sudden, drastic turn around, would you trust it? For how long? Now you have another major issue to deal with along side the 15 yrs of rejection. That trust responsibility would lie very heavy on her shoulders. Do you think she would place it on yours? More blame? The odds are stacked highly against a trusting intimate sex filled relationship. You're right, this is already one of my biggest problems. I'm so shell-shocked by what happened in the past, now that I've had time and space to realize just how inconceivably awful it is to be treated that way by a spouse. Now, even when she's friendly and asking me to try all I can see is the person who emotionally and verbally abused me. She tried to reset me one night during this separation, after a long conversation about our relationship. I felt so uneasy about it, but tried to go along (because isn't this what I've always wanted?). After our clothes were off, I paused to ask why she was doing this, what this meant to her. She immediately became angry that I wouldn't trust her, and the night ended in flames. |
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Post by ted on Jul 17, 2016 22:56:27 GMT -5
ted I agree with what misssunnybunny said. You are so close to being a free man. You are young. Deep in your heart, you probably know things will not change. Be courageous and move forward. The unknown is scary as is change. As stated above, give yourself that chance of happiness now. Don't go back. It's so confusing. Deep in my heart I know things won't change. And deep in my heart I feel like she will and I'll miss it. I don't know how those two thoughts coexist, but they seem to. I'm so sorry. I can only imagine how painful it would be to be in this same place ten years from now. |
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Post by ted on Jul 17, 2016 23:14:30 GMT -5
Welcome Ted. If you and she both still want to try, what would be the harm in dating? What good might come of it? Nothing says if you tried dating again you couldn't still choose to go through with the divorce right? Just make sure you don't do anything irreversible like getting her pregnant until you're sure about staying or going. I wish you the best whatever you choose. It took so long and it was so hard to make the first move, separating two years ago, that I'm deathly afraid I'll get sucked back in and not have the ability to escape again. If I can't make the decision now, after two years for the momentum to slow, how will I ever be able to make the decision if it gains momentum again? Would I love (or whatever this is) her less and have less emotional difficulty than I'm having now? I was so manipulated before, shamed and blamed and I believed it. Would I be strong enough to stand up to it again? Yet, I know if you turned this around and said "if you can't try, why not leave?" I'd have just as many fears about that. I feel so trapped by these walls in every direction. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2016 0:51:38 GMT -5
Welcome Ted. If you and she both still want to try, what would be the harm in dating? What good might come of it? Nothing says if you tried dating again you couldn't still choose to go through with the divorce right? Just make sure you don't do anything irreversible like getting her pregnant until you're sure about staying or going. I wish you the best whatever you choose. It took so long and it was so hard to make the first move, separating two years ago, that I'm deathly afraid I'll get sucked back in and not have the ability to escape again. If I can't make the decision now, after two years for the momentum to slow, how will I ever be able to make the decision if it gains momentum again? Would I love (or whatever this is) her less and have less emotional difficulty than I'm having now? I was so manipulated before, shamed and blamed and I believed it. Would I be strong enough to stand up to it again? Yet, I know if you turned this around and said "if you can't try, why not leave?" I'd have just as many fears about that. I feel so trapped by these walls in every direction. She won't change. You won't change. She might move on and have a happy sexual relationship with someone else, but that wouldn't be because she has changed. It would be because she found someone she wanted that kind of relationship with. All you know is your wife doesn't want sex with you. She could very well find someone else who she wants in that way. But this is something you have to face when any relationship ends, SM or otherwise. Your ex may find happiness with someone else. But that's out of your control and has nothing to do with you. You already know she doesn't want a sexual relationship with you. That's the only relevant fact. You're obviously not ready to let go yet. I just hope you don't let your fear that she will give someone else what she never gave you drive you back to throw another fifteen years away. Think about what you will do after the divorce, not what she will do. |
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Post by unmatched on Jul 18, 2016 1:42:44 GMT -5
If there was a sudden, drastic turn around, would you trust it? For how long? Now you have another major issue to deal with along side the 15 yrs of rejection. That trust responsibility would lie very heavy on her shoulders. Do you think she would place it on yours? More blame? The odds are stacked highly against a trusting intimate sex filled relationship. You're right, this is already one of my biggest problems. I'm so shell-shocked by what happened in the past, now that I've had time and space to realize just how inconceivably awful it is to be treated that way by a spouse. Now, even when she's friendly and asking me to try all I can see is the person who emotionally and verbally abused me. She tried to reset me one night during this separation, after a long conversation about our relationship. I felt so uneasy about it, but tried to go along (because isn't this what I've always wanted?). After our clothes were off, I paused to ask why she was doing this, what this meant to her. She immediately became angry that I wouldn't trust her, and the night ended in flames. It sounds to me like it is still all about her. She was emotionally verbally abusive because she wanted to be. Then she is being friendly because she wants the relationship to continue. Then she tries to reset you as part of that process and gets upset that you are not as unconditionally trusting as she would like. Nowhere in there is any thought about how you are feeling and what you want. Nowhere is any recognition that she has caused you a huge amount of pain and suffering. And nowhere is any thought that you might be scarred by the process and need to take care of your heart as you try to open it up to her again. It is not enough for either of you to change your behaviour at this point. You need to actually talk to each other, acknowledge what has happened and why, how it made you both feel, how you both feel about it now, and you need to care deeply about each other as you go forward. If that doesn't happen and you try to forget the past and 'move on' you are just going to rip each other apart. And in response to your other post, you will miss it and so will she. That is normal. But there are also without doubt things that you would be better off without. Like any relationship it is a question of both good and bad. Just because there are things you are going to miss doesn't mean that you should necessarily stay in it. |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Jul 18, 2016 2:03:27 GMT -5
Hi ted  I had 3 1/2 years apart from my fella 10 yrs back and then stupidly got back with him. Worst mistake of my life. His problems have changed and evolve over the years. And now I'm becoming more aware of the damage they have done to me too. You are out. Stay out. For me it's harder and harder as the years go by. I've made so many excuses for him over the years. Hugs xxx |
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Post by unmatched on Jul 18, 2016 2:07:28 GMT -5
Oh, I thought of a much simpler answer to 'What if she's about to change?':
She's not.
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Post by iceman on Jul 18, 2016 8:44:07 GMT -5
I'll repeat what others have written. She won't change, at least not in the long term. If after all this time in the marriage and have gone through the process of getting the papers together to the point of filing and she's not changed she's not going to. She may get scared or lonely at times and swear that she will change, and truly mean it. But, in the long term she, and you, will revert to who you both really are and you'll be back to square one.
If she finds somebody else who makes her happy so be it. It just means she found somebody she's more compatible with than you. It has nothing to do with you. It won't mean that she would suddenly be what you want and need. It means that this new person is what she wants and needs and you aren't that person. I know that's a tough thing to accept.
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Post by baza on Jul 18, 2016 9:01:52 GMT -5
And on the other side of iceman's observation about how her future may - or may not - turn out.
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What do you need in your future ?
Do you want a woman who consistently shits in your face, makes you miserable and behaves abominably toward you ?
There is at least one candidate you know of, if that's what you want in your future.
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Perhaps a case could be made to raise your sights a tad.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2016 9:07:10 GMT -5
What I think: go back and read what @phinheasgage and iceman said. They said what I'm thinking. I remember misssunnybunny's story; when I first heard it, I thought it was grossly unfair. He wouldn't love her in the best way that there is; he was enough of a chickenshit about it to force *her* to do the breakup - and then months later, he was with someone else! I was furious on her behalf. I offered to go mess him up for her. [LOL] But the truth is, whether or not your W finds her Mr. Right after you end things with her....by the way she has treated you, she does not think you are that man. Holding on to her won't change that. It will just mean that you and she are officially still a couple. There could be a better partner out there somewhere for both of you. And really, the woman who is right for you would treat you better than your W does. Love is supposed to feel good, not be a constant effort all the time. |
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 18, 2016 22:44:23 GMT -5
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Post by needtoresolve on Jul 21, 2016 15:08:19 GMT -5
Ted, you are in agony because you can't let go. You must let go if you are to regain a life.
You have to break her control over you, whether you leave or not.
Your initial post asked "what if" she then found someone else and had the kind of relationship she's denied you? What if she's "about" to change? The answer is simple, if hard to hear: She will never change for you. And at this stage it really does not matter why. If she can have a healthy relationship with someone else (which will not happen, by the way) then celebrate that she finally found something that worked. Now you need to go out and find someone who appreciates the precious and sacred gifts that you represent.
I think you should go down to the attorney's office and sign the damn papers. Then walk out the door and start living a real life; it has been held hostage for long enough.
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Post by Dan on Aug 11, 2016 18:20:43 GMT -5
Ted:
"Welcome" -- in the "sad to see you are here because I live in a sexless marriage, too" sort of way.
May I ask: have you considered talk therapy? For yourself, I mean; not couples therapy.
You sound pretty sad; pretty conflicted; kinda confused. I think talking about those things here may help... but you sound pretty "deep" in that canyon of despair. Having someone to really go back and forth with you could be very helpful. Someone to help you tease out your wants from your needs from just the plain-old pain you probably just need to unload to someone.
You need to try to find SOME PATH that will make you happy... and "wishing for your estranged wife to change and love you and start having sex with you again" might not be a realistic path.
Sure, plenty of ILIASM voices will tell you "you need to come to terms with that"... but that isn't the end of the journey. You have to ENVISION a future where you CAN be happy. You have to define your happiness that DOESN'T rely on "someone else changing"; then make a plan to work toward that.
Individual talk therapy -- with someone you like and you feel "gets" you -- could be really helpful for you now. If not to get all the way to "happy", someone to at least help you find a way out of the canyon.
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Post by sleeplessknight on Aug 11, 2016 22:05:44 GMT -5
It's over dude!
Besides, you cannot change someone else. Only yourself. Do some soul-searching. What is it that really makes you engage in this wishful thinking of having her change? Is it because it's more convenient than divorce? Financial issues? You hate lawyers? You already aren't living together. What is it that's scaring you from actual divorce? Too afraid to end up lonely?
Whatever your reasons are, once you face them and acknowledge them you will be in a much better position to actually address them and do something to get your life on track.
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Post by ted on Aug 12, 2016 23:48:26 GMT -5
Rereading through your replies, as I do from time to time, I'm struck with how high-quality they are. Thank you all so much for the time spent sharing your hard-won wisdom. It's staggering to think of all the years of despair, study, hope, agony, etc. that these posts represent. And all we wanted was to love and be loved.
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