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Post by DryCreek on Jul 16, 2016 10:52:00 GMT -5
lwoetin, kids are grown. unmatched , I would compare us to co-workers who get along well. We're friendly, but not very close emotionally - certainly far from what I desire. I agree that she's attached to me, and I'm a comfortable known quantity. I think there's a very big element of her being unwilling to be emotionally naked and vulnerable. I have the sense of being kept at a safe "arms-length distance" emotionally; an outsider, not in the inner-circle. Which is a lot of what's led me on for so many years - the sense that if I could just break through that shell, the missing pieces would fall into place. At the same time, I can't really say whether her disinterest in sex is physical or psychological. Clearly if she had a mental barrier, it'd keep her from being able to enjoy the physical stimulation. Overall, her behavior has consistently been a disinterest in physical intimacy; I'd describe that as asexual behavior, but maybe I'm being too simplistic. Playing armchair therapist, she shows signs of long-term sexual abuse, and my therapist seemed to agree. But when she denies it, I'm certainly not in a position to press the point (and I'm not inclined to help her fabricate a story that would be an all-too-convenient excuse). She did a few sessions with my therapist later, but of course I have no insight to whether they went down that path. Despite the signs, W has always had good relations with all of her family members, so it's unlikely to have been a family member (if at all). Alternately, I question if her youth hardened her against sexual attention. Another member here shared that he felt like he was being punished for the bad behavior of all the guys she'd known before him; I have a similar sense. W is a very attractive, tall, thin blonde, and she grew up in an ethnic environment where she stood out physically, and I'm certain that it drew a lot of unwanted sexual attention. I've wondered if that made her bitter toward sexual attention. I have, of course, tried to approach the topic over the years with no progress. We've been married for more than half her life (25+ years now), so one might hope that I'd be able to overcome any early stigmas. Apparently not. Isabellas39 , the plan to-date has been never-say-die, but that's been a long road. I've gone through cycles of being vocal and pressing the issue - and when that didn't work, cycles of coping. I'm on another round of "be vocal". This time, I'm taking a different tack, along the lines of "Now that you understand what this is doing to me, you can see that something's got to give." Maybe this will compel her to open up. Maybe she'll acknowledge that we tried and failed. Maybe I'll have to be the bad guy because she chooses to ignore this too.
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Post by bballgirl on Jul 16, 2016 11:20:51 GMT -5
DryCreek said "Now that you understand what this is doing to me, you can see that something's got to give." Maybe this will compel her to open up. Maybe she'll acknowledge that we tried and failed. Maybe I'll have to be the bad guy because she chooses to ignore this too. I think this is a healthier more direct approach. It really gets to the emotional guts of the matter. My ex and I never had that conversation until after I told him I was going to divorce him. It was a raw, open conversation about how living in a SM made me feel rejected all these years. He was sad that I wanted to divorce him and my only response was "take the sadness you have felt for the past 24 hours and stretch that feeling out for years, I've been sad and rejected for years". He said he was sorry called himself an asshole. My point is having that raw and honest conversation and telling the person you love what you need from them should really tell a story by their response: 1) are they honest? 2) do they get emotional in a positive way when you bare your soul? 3) are they willing to genuinely work on it? 4) do they love you enough to set you free? Your wife is lucky her refused partner still loves her and wants her. My ex wasn't so lucky.
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Post by unmatched on Jul 16, 2016 12:19:27 GMT -5
In some ways I am taking a similar approach, to keep pushing gently until either things change or it is clear to both of us that the marriage is not going to make us both happy. It has pushed my W into having counselling for herself as well as couples counselling. I don't think we are in a great place right now but at least we are no longer avoiding it or pretending everything is ok.
I feel guilty sometimes for pushing her in painful directions she would prefer to avoid (see empath thread in SM issues - definitely me too), and sometimes think I should just 'man up' and walk. But I also think she deserves a chance to make her own choice.
With regard to the abuse question, I think some people prefer to skate along the top of life without feeling too much in the way of pain or pleasure or intense emotion. They would rather everything was just 'nice'. I don't think that is an indicator of actual abuse, maybe just a different or sometimes difficult upbringing.
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Post by baza on Jul 16, 2016 19:11:15 GMT -5
I reckon there is one key fact that we all shy away from in our common situations.
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That fact being that EVERY success story in here (be that the bbgirl,unjusted, LaoTzu,type of success - leaving - or the Time4Living@ type of success of pulling off a 180) is built upon being prepared to put the marriage on the line. To go "all in".
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We want a way of changing the ILIASM situation without running any risk.
We'd like the avoidant spouse to realise - all by themselves - that they are putting the marriage at risk with their avoidant behaviour.
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The flaw in this is that the avoidant spouse does NOT see this risk.
Indeed, based on the evidence of *your* actions so far - in staying - there actually is not much of a risk of this happening.
In fact, the avoidant spouse does not see any risk because there isn't any risk.
And so, on and on the status quo goes.
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As ever, the onus falls on *you*, the disenfranchised spouse, to acquaint the avoidant spouse with the reality of what they are putting at risk.
But this can NOT be a bluff. You have to mean it, and be prepared to follow it through. All the way.
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If *you* are not prepared to put the marriage on the line, to go "all in", that is a perfectly legitimate position to take.
It does however, mean that you are NOT going to resolve the situation in any sustainable sense.
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Unless I have missed it completely, I am yet to see an example in the old EP ILIASM group, or here, a case of someone resolving their ILIASM shithole without being prepared to put the marriage on the line, to go "all in".
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2016 22:48:11 GMT -5
There was a time 9 years ago this summer, when I -- based on some cajoling from ignorant folk like me (the scented candles and choreplay crowd) -- that I put the full court LOVE press on my wife. BTW: She's tall, hot, and blond -- like you describe your wife -- at least she used to be. I'd call her "Healthy" now. Anyway, we had just built a bodacious house in the woods to get her out of the "Hood" I lived in when we married (one of the reasons she couldn't fuck me), we her younger sister and my father had died that spring, so it was a very stressful time we had just come out of. What a great time to reconnect, bury all the hatchets, etc. Anyway, that summer (2007) I was being what I thought was a model husband. Pliable, conciliatory, working around the house, washing dishes, taking my shoes off at the door, trying to setup date nights. Honestly doing my best. We had sex three times from May through July. Probably more frequency than we'd had since the first month of our marriage. She got neurotically defensive by August. She was so afraid of me that I would catch her running from the shower to the closet to get clothed lest I catch her in between. One night she was complaining about soreness from something, and I offered to give her a massage in the shower. She exploded, accusing me of trying to fuck her again. I tried to explain that there's be no fucking, but I just wanted to make her comfortable. The next day she launched a tirade -- unprovoked by my reckoning -- about how if I wanted to fuck so bad, I should get a girlfriend. Stunned silence. A few days afterward, she accused me of actually HAVING a girlfriend, and if she found out about it, she'd make my life a living hell. After that, I'd still offer massages -- and frequently she takes them -- but I always make sure the kids are there helping me. See, I'm not trying to fuck you!! Asexual maybe but manipulation is the bigger issue. If you want to fuck get a girlfriend. I bet you do have a girlfriend. If you do have a girlfriend I'll make your life a living hell. Fuck. That. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2016 8:43:24 GMT -5
.....The effort was always about how I should be content with less. ...... In W's eyes, she's as sexual as the next woman - ...... she has never owned this behavior or lack of desire; it's always been blamed on me. [inserted patented SmartKat rant about how frigid bitches take all the good guys out of the dating pool....and wondering what is so special about the frigid bitches - what have they got that I haven't got?] |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2016 8:48:14 GMT -5
...... The next day she launched a tirade -- unprovoked by my reckoning -- about how if I wanted to fuck so bad, I should get a girlfriend. Stunned silence. A few days afterward, she accused me of actually HAVING a girlfriend, and if she found out about it, she'd make my life a living hell. After that, I'd still offer massages -- and frequently she takes them -- but I always make sure the kids are there helping me. See, I'm not trying to fuck you!! [insert patented SmartKat rant about how frigid bitches take all the good guys out of the dating pool. Add some "what have they got that I haven't got?" Tall skinny hot blonde? That could be it....I'm a short, curvy woman with brown hair. Were the guys who said I was hot lying to make me feel better?] |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2016 8:51:06 GMT -5
.....For her, expressions of love are of the "acts of service" variety - "being there" for someone (think swim meets, skating competitions, etc.) or "doing things" for someone (running an errand, or even the daily household chores). But while I appreciate these things, they are not terms of endearment to me; they're things I could ask or hire anyone to do. ...... Pragmatically, one would look at the above and say "You should just speak each other's love language, even though it's meaningless to you". That might work for acts of service, which I could muster up the enthusiasm to do without complaining. But I'd struggle with the amount of time spent doing things I don't enjoy just to score brownie points; and then, how much is enough? Conversely, duty sex is not intimacy. You can sense your spouse's level of enthusiasm, and it's an unsatisfying and degrading experience when they're not mentally present. I think the key is finding someone who shares a a common strong love language. , she doesn't deserve you. Yes, I said it. |
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Post by bballgirl on Jul 18, 2016 9:02:14 GMT -5
...... The next day she launched a tirade -- unprovoked by my reckoning -- about how if I wanted to fuck so bad, I should get a girlfriend. Stunned silence. A few days afterward, she accused me of actually HAVING a girlfriend, and if she found out about it, she'd make my life a living hell. After that, I'd still offer massages -- and frequently she takes them -- but I always make sure the kids are there helping me. See, I'm not trying to fuck you!! [insert patented SmartKat rant about how frigid bitches take all the good guys out of the dating pool. Add some "what have they got that I haven't got?" Tall skinny hot blonde? That could be it....I'm a short, curvy woman with brown hair. Were the guys who said I was hot lying to make me feel better?] I'm glad you posted it twice because I got to like it twice! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2016 9:42:06 GMT -5
...... The next day she launched a tirade -- unprovoked by my reckoning -- about how if I wanted to fuck so bad, I should get a girlfriend. Stunned silence. A few days afterward, she accused me of actually HAVING a girlfriend, and if she found out about it, she'd make my life a living hell. After that, I'd still offer massages -- and frequently she takes them -- but I always make sure the kids are there helping me. See, I'm not trying to fuck you!! [insert patented SmartKat rant about how frigid bitches take all the good guys out of the dating pool. Add some "what have they got that I haven't got?" Tall skinny hot blonde? That could be it....I'm a short, curvy woman with brown hair. Were the guys who said I was hot lying to make me feel better?] Rats, I love that rant. Never get enough of it!! |
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 18, 2016 12:04:59 GMT -5
...... The next day she launched a tirade -- unprovoked by my reckoning -- about how if I wanted to fuck so bad, I should get a girlfriend. Stunned silence. A few days afterward, she accused me of actually HAVING a girlfriend, and if she found out about it, she'd make my life a living hell. After that, I'd still offer massages -- and frequently she takes them -- but I always make sure the kids are there helping me. See, I'm not trying to fuck you!! [insert patented SmartKat rant about how frigid bitches take all the good guys out of the dating pool. Add some "what have they got that I haven't got?" Tall skinny hot blonde? That could be it....I'm a short, curvy woman with brown hair. Were the guys who said I was hot lying to make me feel better?] {Hugs} My hottest relationship ever was the girlfriend before W... a foot shorter than me, brunette, curvy, extremely endowed, 10 years older, and a single mom. We both had issues that put distance between us, and she foolishly introduced me to W, thinking I would gain some much-needed maturity and then find my way back. That would have been amazing, but I was not privy to her intent. She had unwittingly converted me to the idea of marriage, but didn't reap the benefits. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2016 13:45:05 GMT -5
My sympathies, DC. I thought a hot blonde would solve all the world's problems. Do you have kids? Ok, my sympathies too, but honestly are any of you ladies and gents seeing the irony in this? You guys pick a hot, skinny blonde for fucking and then wind up not getting fucked?? Sucks indeed doesn't it? Fellas, look no further than the short, curvy girls-next-door. That might just be your ticket out of SM and into, well, ecstasy?? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2016 13:52:26 GMT -5
DryCreek, she doesn't deserve you. Yes, I said it. I'm with @smartkat on this, 100% ('cause I like that number - quite a lot  ). A nice, smart, upstanding guy like DryCreek oughta be gettin' it, nice and regular. Just sayin'. @creelunion , you too - both you guys, REALMEN of ILIASM. But, I still have to call you both out on being shallow and picking a girl based on looks, legs, and hair color alone. You'll do better to look a bit deeper next time. And, please, look down! Short girls love REALMEN. (Alas, I'm super tall and I have pink hair, which makes men CRAZY. Don't fall for me - I'm dangerous.) |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2016 14:14:03 GMT -5
DryCreek, she doesn't deserve you. Yes, I said it. I'm with @smartkat on this, 100% ('cause I like that number - quite a lot ). A nice, smart, upstanding guy like DryCreek oughta be gettin' it, nice and regular. Just sayin'. @creelunion , you too - both you guys, REALMEN of ILIASM. But, I still have to call you both out on being shallow and picking a girl based on looks, legs, and hair color alone. You'll do better to look a bit deeper next time. And, please, look down! Short girls love REALMEN. (Alas, I'm super tall and I have pink hair, which makes men CRAZY. Don't fall for me - I'm dangerous.) YUP! I dropped all the "Rules" when I made that decision. And for the record, I've never once said she "Changed" or that I was fooled. I had a flawed selection criteria based on an exception that was made in this one case. CONCEPT: You marry the ones you date!!! APPLICATION: Don't date anyone you KNOW you don't want to marry. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 18, 2016 14:26:34 GMT -5
...... The next day she launched a tirade -- unprovoked by my reckoning -- about how if I wanted to fuck so bad, I should get a girlfriend. Stunned silence. A few days afterward, she accused me of actually HAVING a girlfriend, and if she found out about it, she'd make my life a living hell. After that, I'd still offer massages -- and frequently she takes them -- but I always make sure the kids are there helping me. See, I'm not trying to fuck you!! [insert patented SmartKat rant about how frigid bitches take all the good guys out of the dating pool. Add some "what have they got that I haven't got?" Tall skinny hot blonde? That could be it....I'm a short, curvy woman with brown hair. Were the guys who said I was hot lying to make me feel better?] I added on my own little story that I can relate with these guys. However, being 5'10" between 125 and 135 lbs, I have a slender build. Yet I married a well endowed 5' 4" short curvy woman, with brown hair. ( with some curves too short and others protruding too much) I was so set on, it's the person that matters. She has no experience how can that be bad? Everyone likes sex, right? And the old philosophy, you wouldn't buy a car without test driving it, was countered with, no one buys used underwear!. honestly, my mind is filled with doubt! One side says, can you truly find another short, heavy, curvy woman attractive again? Will she remind you to much of someone else? Then there's the flip side, will a slender woman like a slender man like yourself? When a short curvy woman tells you that they desire a "big" heavy man, it can fill your head with doubt. That stereotype begins to infiltrate my mind. As smilin61 once told me, "they have never met you, they hardly know you, that's there problem to deal with, you have to get used to that and let it go." |
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). A nice, smart, upstanding guy like 
