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Post by cc on Jun 23, 2016 18:24:24 GMT -5
that's a serious situation and sadly I think I'm 10years behind you on the same path. what does gaslighting mean? Gaslighting is where they say something or do something that is wrong. You call them out on it and they say "I never said that". They are delusional and can manipulate you to believe it's your mistake and then you are the one saying sorry when they said or did something wrong. I have never heard the term "gaslighting" My husband does this! He just pretends he didn't say it or he doesn't remember. It makes me insane! There is never any conflict resolution. It is him doing that and standing stone faced still until I give up. Just reading this has me in tears. |
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Post by nyartgal on Jun 23, 2016 18:57:50 GMT -5
The term comes from the classic Alfred Hitchcock film "Gaslight." A man wants to get rid of his wife and slowly tries to drive her crazy, for example by turning down the gas lights and then saying everything is normal when she asks if it's getting darker and darker in the house. Worth watching! I love Hitchcock.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 19:03:39 GMT -5
Gaslighting is where they say something or do something that is wrong. You call them out on it and they say "I never said that". They are delusional and can manipulate you to believe it's your mistake and then you are the one saying sorry when they said or did something wrong. I have never heard the term "gaslighting" My husband does this! He just pretends he didn't say it or he doesn't remember. It makes me insane! There is never any conflict resolution. It is him doing that and standing stone faced still until I give up. Just reading this has me in tears. Gaslighting can get much worse than that. Look up the definition. It's a tactic used in psychological warfare. When it gets worse is when the refuser starts trying to get you to doubt your own sanity. It starts with the "I never said that", but then it moves on to "You're hyper-sensitive, are you OK?", and then things like "We'd have more intimacy if *.*", and they get you chasing your tail all over the place trying to satisfy bogus requirements. If I didn't work so hard: Quit your job. If you were around more: You quit your job. If we didn't live here: You build a new house. If you were in better shape: You win the decathlon. If If IF If the sixth ring of Saturn was blue.... Gaslighting. Grrrr |
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Post by cc on Jun 23, 2016 19:28:57 GMT -5
Consider me absolutely astounded. There's a dang name for this!
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Post by nyartgal on Jun 23, 2016 19:30:39 GMT -5
Oooh, that's gas lighting + moving the goalposts! Lucky you!!
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 23, 2016 19:38:47 GMT -5
Gaslighting is where they say something or do something that is wrong. You call them out on it and they say "I never said that". They are delusional and can manipulate you to believe it's your mistake and then you are the one saying sorry when they said or did something wrong. I have never heard the term "gaslighting" My husband does this! He just pretends he didn't say it or he doesn't remember. It makes me insane! There is never any conflict resolution. It is him doing that and standing stone faced still until I give up. Just reading this has me in tears. Knowledge is power. Try to google ways to deal with it. One thing that I did when I could was put things in writing with either email or texts and then I had his words in writing. This is a good group to get support. |
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Post by cc on Jun 23, 2016 20:16:02 GMT -5
I have actually written as we talked. I've used it to read back. He still argues. I asked him to dictate his sentences. He told me what to write. I had no clue....
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 23, 2016 21:34:12 GMT -5
I have actually written as we talked. I've used it to read back. He still argues. I asked him to dictate his sentences. He told me what to write. I had no clue.... I'm sorry he is so difficult to live with. My husband was a difficult man to live with too so I left. I got a divorce and I love living by myself with the kids of course. Unfortunately the kids have to put up with his crap. Some days are good some aren't. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 23, 2016 21:51:54 GMT -5
Another side to this is called " the double bind" or the "damned if you do, damned if you don't"
Here's an example: the command " be spontaneous".
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Post by cc on Jun 23, 2016 22:30:23 GMT -5
See, greatcoastal, I am probably guilty of "damned if you do, or don't" with my H. I get so frustrated and angry that sometimes and more often lately I don't think anything he does is helpful. I do attempt for the most part to be open to anything he does. It is hard, because mostly he does things like a wounded puppy or a small child in trouble with mom. (His mother was very overbearing, another part of the story). I have somehow allowed him to replace her with me, I fear.
He doesn't say be spontaneous. His is more like I tried to kiss you when our child was knee deep in vomit and you had no way to accept my advance. LOL I am totally being an ass in my analogy, but you get the drift?
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Post by itsjustus on Jun 24, 2016 1:21:42 GMT -5
I have never heard the term "gaslighting" My husband does this! He just pretends he didn't say it or he doesn't remember. It makes me insane! There is never any conflict resolution. It is him doing that and standing stone faced still until I give up. Just reading this has me in tears. Gaslighting can get much worse than that. Look up the definition. It's a tactic used in psychological warfare. When it gets worse is when the refuser starts trying to get you to doubt your own sanity. It starts with the "I never said that", but then it moves on to "You're hyper-sensitive, are you OK?", and then things like "We'd have more intimacy if *.*", and they get you chasing your tail all over the place trying to satisfy bogus requirements. If I didn't work so hard: Quit your job. If you were around more: You quit your job. If we didn't live here: You build a new house. If you were in better shape: You win the decathlon. If If IF If the sixth ring of Saturn was blue.... Gaslighting. Grrrr Gaslighting is a serious form of emotional abuse. At it's worse, like for me, I was made to believe that conversations never happened, things were said that never were, things happened that didn't...on and on. All in a very convincing manner. The most insidious is when you actually....pretty sure...damn near almost POSITIVE it was said...and they just stand there, stone faced, and let you talk yourself out of it....that's being gaslight trained...sigh.. But it can also be subtle. Not so overt and so manipulative. But that makes it even more insidious in my opinion. Tell me you've heard this: You're so sensitive. You're so emotional. You're always defensive. You're overreacting....calm down. Relax. Stop freaking out. You're so dramatic... You always think the worse. You're unbelievable. You "think" too much. And my worse one.... Don't be so sensitive. I was just joking, don't you have a sense of humor??? I read these on this article from Thegoodmenproject.com about Gaslighting. It focused on women, but it applies to men equally. I was the victim of it for many years. It's just another form of manipulation, of control. It's especially effective for people who a more empathetic, more wanting to give "the benefit of the doubt", and for those who don't like confrontations or conflict. Then add in that living in a SM is about as bad as it gets for killing your self-esteem....We are already not happy with arguing or confronting. It doesn't take much to make us back off, doubting ourselves. Gaslighting is a very easy thing to succumb too. |
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Post by baza on Jun 24, 2016 4:44:33 GMT -5
Two basic refuser / controller ploys.
Isolation -
getting you away from your friends and family, (or anyone else who you might listen to) so the main voice and opinion you hear is their's and no-one elses.
Gaslighting -
designed to shatter your self confidence and doubt your own competence.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 7:10:47 GMT -5
I have actually written as we talked. I've used it to read back. He still argues. I asked him to dictate his sentences. He told me what to write. I had no clue.... Been there and done that!!! That practice pretty much stops the whole gaslighting practice. It's funny the things folks will say "Off The Record" that they won't say to the record. BUT, under significant stress, she's allowed me to document a hateful rant, read it ALL back to her for clarification, and then enter it into the record. Documenting also stops the practice of "Venting". My wife calls it "Venting" when she spews a pile of hateful stuff at me. Later, she'd say she didn't mean it. She was only "Venting". That's over now because together we proved her "Venting" actually IS Venting in the classic sense: allowing the contents of a container to escape under pressure. Nothing comes out but what's actually in the vessel. Conservation of mass/energy and information. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 24, 2016 8:00:43 GMT -5
I have actually written as we talked. I've used it to read back. He still argues. I asked him to dictate his sentences. He told me what to write. I had no clue.... Been there and done that!!! That practice pretty much stops the whole gaslighting practice. It's funny the things folks will say "Off The Record" that they won't say to the record. BUT, under significant stress, she's allowed me to document a hateful rant, read it ALL back to her for clarification, and then enter it into the record. Documenting also stops the practice of "Venting". My wife calls it "Venting" when she spews a pile of hateful stuff at me. Later, she'd say she didn't mean it. She was only "Venting". That's over now because together we proved her "Venting" actually IS Venting in the classic sense: allowing the contents of a container to escape under pressure. Nothing comes out but what's actually in the vessel. Conservation of mass/energy and information. Once I started documenting our conversations, my wife's conversations with the kids, records of spending, actions, behaviors, etc...so I could " present my case" with the councilor, guess who sounded more credible? The next step becomes the avoidance, and the isolation. Leading to the break up, and eventually the freedom. |
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Post by cc on Jun 24, 2016 12:56:56 GMT -5
Yes! When I started repeating back his words and he couldn't say that's not what I said or what I meant (because I refused to handle it) He became silent. He no longer speaks unless to throw what he has said or might say back on me. If I say, "You must be right at any cost." He throws it on me, saying, "No that is you." Sigh. So, I'm dealing with silence or the words yes or no because I am insane. If I want conversation it must play by the rules. It can't be about him. It can be about the kids or random meaningless crap.
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