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Post by mylastchance on Jun 18, 2016 5:59:12 GMT -5
I have been here before. I was on EP. I was on TAM. I've joined about every forum there is over the past ten years or so. I've read all the books about 'how to man up', how to break codependence, how to banish fear and find courage, all of it. I have over 1000 emails I've typed to myself under an account made just for that purpose. I have been married for 27 years to an emotional abuser and probable borderline narcissist. My three kids are now out of the house. I make decent money and can afford a divorce. I have zero interest anymore in trying to 'fix' anything. I haven't been able to stand being around her for about 5 years now. Sexless for 8, technically sexless for years on top of that. I can't stand her. I hate when she opens her mouth to say anything to me. I hate when she walks past. I tried to address the issues with her several times and got it all thrown back in my face each time. The last time, she actually tried to gaslight me (and maybe it worked). I have symptoms of PTSD. I'm massively codependent. I am ensnared in the most hideous traps of an empath-narcissist dynamic. I am a 55 year old grown-ass man. I'm good looking, smart, athletic, creatively inclined, like people, fun to be around, all the normal stuff.
Yet here I am.......again...........still........and am typing as a warning, I suppose, to all of you who think, 'oh, I've got my exit plan - just need to wait for (whatever), then I'm gone.' Think so, huh? Think again. The psychological power of what you are subjecting yourself to is no joke. You think you can control your mind? Good luck. You think willpower will get you out? I wish you well. GET OUT NOW, at the first inkling you feel that you should leave. DO IT. Do not wait. Don't end up like me. I'm a mess. My sleep is horrific. I wake up with panic and anxiety attacks constantly. I wonder how long my heart can take this, I mean literally. I wonder if I'm losing my mind and if I'll EVER be able to feel happiness again. All because I mis-married a woman whose issues she threw onto me as soon as she had what SHE wanted most of all -- three children. Then - no more sex, cruelty, disparaging remarks, smart as a whip and can turn everything around on a dime and beat me to death with it.
The cruelest part of all? She has continued, all these years, to go cheerfully around the home doing her thing, engaging in her interests and hobbies, mainly the kids even now that they're out on their own. Separate bedrooms for 8 years........she tells people that come over that it's because I snore. It's a big joke with her.
This woman has DESTROYED me. I have been suicidal in the past and feel like I'm a step away from moving in that direction again.
I want out SO badly........and all I have to do is tell her........and yet because of the abuse, the near TOTAL loss of self......I have been trying for over a year, every day.......to open my mouth and say one fucking sentence.........and every time, a voice inside me screams 'No! Wait!'.....and I back down and go on in my misery.
I can't believe I have fallen so far as to be in this position. This is my LIFE.............and yet, I feel helpless, like it's so beyond my control..........
I don;t know, man..........pray for me, motivate me, inspire me, rip me a new one.......just don't tell me to 'man up'..the most unhelpful and clueless thing anyone can say to a man. And if you read this and you've just started down the road to What-the-fuck-Land, PLEASE...........please..........do NOT delay, for ANY reason...........
Ugh, fuck.............
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Post by baza on Jun 18, 2016 7:15:31 GMT -5
It all reads like you have the first cornerstone in place - Accepting that it is your choice, and nothing else that is holding you in this sub-optimal situation.
It looks like the next bit - objectively assessing your situation fully and honestly has been negotiated too.
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There's no mention of a legal consultation etc that make up an exit strategy, but there is a hint that mebbe you have also got that.
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The really hard end bit - where you make a fully informed choice - appears to be where you fall arse over head (as do many of us).
In effect, you are choosing to stay - and that's a perfectly legitimate choice.
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You have my empathy in your conflicted state.
Only you can nut yours out.
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It might help to deliberately and consciously acknowledge that you ARE choosing to stay, and repeat that mantra until such time as you truly do own that choice.
And, from that position of empowerment and ownership, you might, at a future date, choose differently.
That'll be up to you. That's an issue for another day.
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You allude to the difficulty in ending these situations.
I'd suggest that every member here can endorse that. It doesn't seem to matter whether you are male / female, young / old, with kids / no kids, financial / unfinancial. No-one finds it easy. Oftentimes the hardest thing you'll ever do.
And for some, impossible to do.
There doesn't seem to be any known way to dodge this last emotional hurdle, not that I've seen in the last 7.5 years anyway.
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Your circumstances suggest that the logistics in your case are 'simpler' than say Sister JMX.
Thing is, you'll find it no easier (or harder) emotionally than her to make the break. And she won't find it any emotionally harder (or easier) than you.
The emotional turmoil and cost is pretty much the same for all, although the logistical cost may be easier (or harder) in individual cases.
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 18, 2016 8:15:49 GMT -5
Oh Wow!! You have a lot on your emotional plate. I was in a narcissist/empath marriage, he gaslighted me, at one point i thought about suicide, I cried so much, I would go back and forth between staying and going. The best I could commit to was i would leave in four years and one day a switch flipped and I thought "what if he has a stroke in 2 years? I'll be stuck for life". So I went to an attorney. Honestly that was the second hardest part for me was dialing the number to call the attorney. I had anxiety calling them but I did and they just ask you questions and give you information and educate you on a PATH to your freedom.
Call an attorney first and get educated. Do it one step at a time like each rung of the ladder. I never looked too far ahead in the process.
Nobody should live with someone that they hate.
I don't know that I hated my husband but I hated being around him. Just sitting at the dinner table and hearing his teeth chew on food disgusted me.
You are still young. You can easily have 30 good years ahead of you.
Make a change for yourself. You deserve better. Love yourself enough to enjoy the rest of your life.
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compugeek
New Member
bleh
Posts: 12 
Age Range: 41-45
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Post by compugeek on Jun 18, 2016 8:36:48 GMT -5
that's a serious situation and sadly I think I'm 10years behind you on the same path.
what does gaslighting mean?
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Post by unmatched on Jun 18, 2016 8:39:37 GMT -5
If you know you want it but you can't do it because you lose it every time you are around her, do you think you could be more strategic about it? Maybe you could write her a letter? Or a better idea might be to try and create some space for yourself. Find a way to go away and spend some time with friends or family or on your own. Tell her you want a sabbatical to 'find yourself'. Go crew on a sailing trip. Whatever. You might find after spending some time apart it feels a while lot easier.
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 18, 2016 8:41:35 GMT -5
that's a serious situation and sadly I think I'm 10years behind you on the same path. what does gaslighting mean? Gaslighting is where they say something or do something that is wrong. You call them out on it and they say "I never said that". They are delusional and can manipulate you to believe it's your mistake and then you are the one saying sorry when they said or did something wrong. |
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Post by Rhapsodee on Jun 18, 2016 11:11:12 GMT -5
You cannot reason with an abuser. Your only option is to leave secretly. Dont tell anyone but your attorney. Don't tell your children or friends.
Start putting everything you value in storage. If you don't, she will destroy them when you leave.
Secure your finances. Redirect half of the savings and bank accounts into another account.
Rent a PO Box.
Get a new cell phone with a different carrier.
Cancel email addresses and get new ones she does not know.
File for divorce and have her served the day after you leave.
Get a restraining order so she doesn't harass you at your workplace.
Hire a mediator to communicate with her.
Plan your leaving day carefully. Make sure she is going to be out of the house and occupied for the entire day and make your move.
When you are out, do not contact her or accept any communications from her. Don't allow her to use your children to manipulate you. You may have to go silent with them for awhile.
This is the hardest part: If she is hospitalized for psychological reasons or attempts suicide, let the rest of the family deal with it. It is a manipulation ploy. Don't fall for it.
Have all communication go through a mediator.
When I was 25 I was in a violent marriage. Every time I would try to leave or talk to him about the abuse things would get worse. He would lock me in a closet, disable my car, choke me into submission.
I took the advice above seriously and did each one. He attempted suicide. I did not call. He recovered and didn't try again. My heart was cold.
You can do this. Protect yourself.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 12:07:50 GMT -5
You cannot reason with an abuser. Your only option is to leave secretly. Dont tell anyone but your attorney. Don't tell your children or friends. Start putting everything you value in storage. If you don't, she will destroy them when you leave. Secure your finances. Redirect half of the savings and bank accounts into another account. Rent a PO Box. Get a new cell phone with a different carrier. Cancel email addresses and get new ones she does not know. File for divorce and have her served the day after you leave. Get a restraining order so she doesn't harass you at your workplace. Hire a mediator to communicate with her. Plan your leaving day carefully. Make sure she is going to be out of the house and occupied for the entire day and make your move. When you are out, do not contact her or accept any communications from her. Don't allow her to use your children to manipulate you. You may have to go silent with them for awhile. This is the hardest part: If she is hospitalized for psychological reasons or attempts suicide, let the rest of the family deal with it. It is a manipulation ploy. Don't fall for it. Have all communication go through a mediator. When I was 25 I was in a violent marriage. Every time I would try to leave or talk to him about the abuse things would get worse. He would lock me in a closet, disable my car, choke me into submission. I took the advice above seriously and did each one. He attempted suicide. I did not call. He recovered and didn't try again. My heart was cold. You can do this. Protect yourself. You don't ask for a divorce. You announce it. If your spouse is sane. If your spouse is abusive, you don't even do that. Lastchance, she may not physically choke you into submission but she sure as hell will emotionally. If you tell her you are divorcing her, do you think you'll stand firm once her head games start? I don't. You'll waffle and then feel even more helpless. You may want to seriously consider the above advice and discuss it with an attorney. All the points won't shake out in all jurisdictions, but there are no bars in your windows. You can leave. You may have to wait to get the divorce, but you can get the hell away from her. And you don't need her agreement. But you must plan this carefully. Very carefully. If she finds out about it or you leave her a way to continue to harass you, all hell will break loose. Rhapsodee put a lot of planning into this. I know someone else who did it, and she planned for months. But a stealth exit may be your only hope. The restraining order, or depending on what you can get in your jurisdiction, perhaps a no contact order, is critical. If she can bombard you with texts and phone calls and flood your Inbox she will wear you down and reel you back in by sheer force of will. If there is a little voice in your head saying but a man faces his problems, doesn't run from them...that only applies to sane problems. |
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Post by nyartgal on Jun 18, 2016 12:40:00 GMT -5
Is there someone in your life who you trust that could help you? It seems like you are depending on yourself to have the strength and force of will to end it all by yourself, but it's clear that you can't. And that's fine, what's not fine is deluding yourself into thinking that one day you will wake up and be ready. It's not your fault, you have been beaten to a pulp emotionally and you can't operate from that level of pain and trauma. You're like someone wasting away in a POW camp---you need a rescuer.
I agree with all of Rhapsodee's great advice except that I am not sure you can do this without at least one close, trustworthy friend of family member to help you. Is there someone in your life who already knows your situation who you can turn to? If not, who could you tell that you could trust and depend on?
It's very hard when men are emotionally (and/or physically) abused because we have his stupid macho culture that assumes it's not possible and you should just be able to man up and handle it. That doesn't make any sense!! Asking for help is not weakness. Talk to a lawyer, find someone to be there for you and take it one careful step at a time until you are out.
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Post by DryCreek on Jun 18, 2016 14:55:16 GMT -5
mylastchance - Rhapsodee's list is really excellent and way beyond what I'd considered. If your situation is that bad and the only obstacle is your inability to confront her, then don't. This is what attorneys are paid for. You just focus on extracting yourself. Go get legal advice. Now. Interview 2-3 attorneys. Find out what, if any, implications there are from just leaving the house. Ask their guidance on how to escape swiftly and minimize losses. (In many jurisdictions, attorneys will meet prospective clients for free and offer basic guidance.) Make a "punch list" and have a plan to execute it quickly. Prioritize it, in case your plans get derailed. Because, as you already know, days turn into months, and months turn into decades.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 16:27:13 GMT -5
mylastchance, I can feel your pain and hear your cry for help. You'll get great advice from the experienced folks here. I'm still stuck IASM, so take my advice for what it's worth. My first reaction to your post is that it's a warning call for people like me. Thank you for that. I'm currently working a 2 year exit plan, but I tend to see the best in my spouse, even on his worst days, and that doesn't go far enough to protect myself. Much to think about there. I like to think I have clear breaking points and I do know my exit plan is solid - it's a matter of having the courage to execute it in a few years. I guess, what I wondered, is whether you have a good therapist. I feel like a good therapist could help you summon the courage to do this thing that it sounds like you clearly NEED to do. You've gotten sound advice from baza, @phinheasgage, rhapsodee, bballgirl, nyartgal, and others. Take it! Be VERY careful with a narcissist. Your plan needs to be foolproof. You'll want to double, triple check that all your Is are dotted and Ts are crossed. It might take you a few months, but I bet if you begin planning now, you will be surprised at how empowered you feel just taking one step each day towards getting the HELL out and grabbing onto happiness. Keep your eye on the prize my friend. And yeah, get some support as nyartgal said. You're gonna need it. I'm really sorry you're here under these circumstances. I hope you find the strength you need to seek the greener pastures ahead!
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Post by cagedadventurer on Jun 18, 2016 19:58:33 GMT -5
I'm good looking, smart, athletic, creatively inclined, like people, fun to be around, all the normal stuff. Yet here I am.......again...........still........and ..... All because I mis-married a woman whose issues she threw onto me as soon as she had what SHE wanted most of all -- three children. Then - no more sex, cruelty, disparaging remarks, smart as a whip and can turn everything around on a dime and beat me to death with it. The cruelest part of all? She has continued, all these years, to go cheerfully around the home doing her thing, engaging in her interests and hobbies, mainly the kids even now that they're out on their own. Separate bedrooms for 8 years........she tells people that come over that it's because I snore. It's a big joke with her. This woman has DESTROYED me. I have been suicidal in the past and feel like I'm a step away from moving in that direction again. I want out SO badly........ , so many great folks on these forums and especially here to listen to. AMAZING, your story made me recall 29 years ago how somehow she mentally lassoed me! I was staying at her apartment far more often than I wanted and began accumulating clothes. I did not want the allusion that I was living there, so I concluded I needed to get my stuff to my car. But I recall I knew I needed to do this secretly to avoid a confrontation. But she saw me, and “sweetly” questioned me and then sex, the next day too and the day after that…. I was pulled in. A kid and a house later, the rejection and vitriolic behavior began. I look back and understand she had been rejected and verbally lashed by her mother growing up so she would not allow another rejection, not by me – a “nice guy”. So the emotional manipulation begins and is perfected over time. The frog slowing boiling analogy keeps coming to mind. My deal is not as extreme as I learned to put her in her place once I decided I had NOTHING to lose, so I was finally powerful enough to turn control. THE WORD GAMES! – Yes. Even as recent as two years ago; I’m sure it was an argument where I defended being a man or defending why the kids are not disrespectful because they make messes; but I told her then I will not argue because she has a masterful way of taking my words, putting them into her own word bucket and throwing t hem back at me so twisted I lost the ability to discern the truth or the facts. She denied this of course. Now things did improve afterward as I told her I was ready to leave her and we were all sick of her controlling ways. Again, better since then but I am here just the same. Consider the story of those held against their will for years, just to find them as full grown adults functioning in public never seeming to remember they were kidnapped YET this is NOT their life. Think Jaycee Dugard. Maybe a stretch but here she worked for the family printing business, made calls to customers, etc. She functioned BUT she kept quiet, took no action. You mention suicide, the depression, the anxiety. Figure that no matter what results from just walking out, life afterward will be a bonus. You are worth it and you deserve it! So do I! There is no downside. Think Shawshank redemption. This was a long calculated plan, but he finally acted after being unjustly imprisoned. This emotional prison is real. So knowing you don’t have the power to face the enemy and win just don't come home from work one day. Pack a few things for a "work trip", take an apartment and fit it as you like with your own stuff. Yes take the advice from Rhapsodee, change numbers, etc. go all Katie Holmes on her. A storage unit is a good idea for family things, valuable items or heirlooms that you do not want her to destroy or sell. BUT ask a brother or friend to reserve it for you in their name. This is when you go secret agent and hide from the enemy. Just the planning and strategizing will reinvigorate you.
Just go. It’s okay. Everything is a bonus to a man who felt dead but is again alive! You've got a real life to live yet. Time and health are on your side. I don't know where you are but if nearby we'd be shooting pool tonight planning your escape. Find that advocate, that friend. Just tell them you have to get out and need help in planning. Bring Rhapsodee's list. BUT start this week. No long time frames. Tell boss, leave of absence for 30 days for health concerns. This way you are free to be and she will not find you until she has been served. Then when she comes home to the empty house, just have Foreigner's cold as ice looping on the stereo. She'll get it. You'll smile every time you think about it. |
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Post by itsjustus on Jun 18, 2016 20:14:27 GMT -5
I have been here before. I was on EP. I was on TAM. I've joined about every forum there is over the past ten years or so. I've read all the books about 'how to man up', how to break codependence, how to banish fear and find courage, all of it. I have over 1000 emails I've typed to myself under an account made just for that purpose. I have been married for 27 years to an emotional abuser and probable borderline narcissist. My three kids are now out of the house. I make decent money and can afford a divorce. I have zero interest anymore in trying to 'fix' anything. I haven't been able to stand being around her for about 5 years now. Sexless for 8, technically sexless for years on top of that. I can't stand her. I hate when she opens her mouth to say anything to me. I hate when she walks past. I tried to address the issues with her several times and got it all thrown back in my face each time. The last time, she actually tried to gaslight me (and maybe it worked). I have symptoms of PTSD. I'm massively codependent. I am ensnared in the most hideous traps of an empath-narcissist dynamic. I am a 55 year old grown-ass man. I'm good looking, smart, athletic, creatively inclined, like people, fun to be around, all the normal stuff. Yet here I am.......again...........still........and am typing as a warning, I suppose, to all of you who think, 'oh, I've got my exit plan - just need to wait for (whatever), then I'm gone.' Think so, huh? Think again. The psychological power of what you are subjecting yourself to is no joke. You think you can control your mind? Good luck. You think willpower will get you out? I wish you well. GET OUT NOW, at the first inkling you feel that you should leave. DO IT. Do not wait. Don't end up like me. I'm a mess. My sleep is horrific. I wake up with panic and anxiety attacks constantly. I wonder how long my heart can take this, I mean literally. I wonder if I'm losing my mind and if I'll EVER be able to feel happiness again. All because I mis-married a woman whose issues she threw onto me as soon as she had what SHE wanted most of all -- three children. Then - no more sex, cruelty, disparaging remarks, smart as a whip and can turn everything around on a dime and beat me to death with it. The cruelest part of all? She has continued, all these years, to go cheerfully around the home doing her thing, engaging in her interests and hobbies, mainly the kids even now that they're out on their own. Separate bedrooms for 8 years........she tells people that come over that it's because I snore. It's a big joke with her. This woman has DESTROYED me. I have been suicidal in the past and feel like I'm a step away from moving in that direction again. I want out SO badly........and all I have to do is tell her........and yet because of the abuse, the near TOTAL loss of self......I have been trying for over a year, every day.......to open my mouth and say one fucking sentence.........and every time, a voice inside me screams 'No! Wait!'.....and I back down and go on in my misery. I can't believe I have fallen so far as to be in this position. This is my LIFE.............and yet, I feel helpless, like it's so beyond my control.......... I don;t know, man..........pray for me, motivate me, inspire me, rip me a new one.......just don't tell me to 'man up'..the most unhelpful and clueless thing anyone can say to a man. And if you read this and you've just started down the road to What-the-fuck-Land, PLEASE...........please..........do NOT delay, for ANY reason........... Ugh, fuck............. Wow.......just......wow. This. Yes. Exactly. Wow. That was me. Wow....just....wow. "to open my mouth and say one fucking sentence" I did. One fucking sentence. Finally..... "Hey, You can't talk to me that way, I'm your husband!" The dam broke. Just start.... Tell the voice inside....to fuck off. Wow......just.....wow. |
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unkakris
Junior Member
Trying to Figure This Out
Posts: 86
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by unkakris on Jun 21, 2016 23:31:29 GMT -5
Have strength brother. You WILL get out. All the above advice is Spot. Effing. On. The. Money.
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Post by Pinkberry on Jun 22, 2016 13:30:58 GMT -5
Rhapsodee's suggestions are great, top notch. However, getting there is the hard part whether you have to say that sentence or not.
Not to be trite, but you require counseling, and medication will likely be helpful. That is for you, just you, not the marriage and not really for the leaving. It is for all you have endured. You need to process it so that you can begin to move towards normal. Just being out is not enough given the state you are in.
You also need to tell someone in real life to help you get the motivation to go. One point I might disagree with Rhapsodee on is the possibility that it could be your kids. That will depend on their ages, their maturity, and their general personalities. You will have to discern if they are good confidants, or if one of them is. If they are beyond the selfish stage, which usually doesn't occur until after 25 at least, then they might be just the person to say, "Jesus, Dad, I had no idea. You need to leave." I guarantee that hearing your child tell you to take care of yourself will big a huge motivator.
If it is not the kids, then someone, even someone you wouldn't normally tell. Is there a friend at work who notices the furrowed brow and asks if you are okay? Is there a neighbor who notices tension, but says nothing? Is there a clergy member you could go to? This person cannot be your counselor. This is not the purview of a counselor. They help you process stuff. They are not charged with giving you a kick in the pants, though sometimes they might. Hearing the logic come out of someone else's mouth melts the bullshit gaslighting. You are not crazy, no matter what she says.
You deserve better.
You deserve better.
You deserve better.
That is your new mantra.
"I deserve better."
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