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Post by northstarmom on Nov 30, 2023 12:53:09 GMT -5
miestas: "There's more important things then sex right? It makes it sound like that's all I care about when I bring it up."
While there are more important things than sex in a marriage, sex is the only thing in most people's marriages that can only be obtained in your marriage. Otherwise, you are just roommmates, and that makes marital sex very important for people who like sex and are married. Lack of sex in such situations is an important, not a trivial, problem.
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miestas
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Post by miestas on Nov 30, 2023 16:52:04 GMT -5
For anyone who thinks that sex is not all that important in a marriage, or who has a spouse that thinks that, try this mental exercise:
Imagine going to your spouse and saying, “I’ve been thinking and I feel that sex isn’t all that big of a deal, and arguing about it seems kind of silly. So I’m just going to have sex with someone else when I feel the need and we can quit arguing about it. “
How do you think your spouse would react? Mine’s head would explode. Suddenly, I don’t feel so silly about making sex a priority in our marriage.
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Post by mirrororchid on Dec 1, 2023 6:32:44 GMT -5
It was a one off and would not lead to any escalation. I believe at the beginning of our marriage the sex was exactly and you described where she would never initiate but would enjoy it. Now if I initiate, even something as putting a hand on her hip in bed she will push it away saying I'm too hot. I'm not sure I've defined my minimum level. But I think it would be at least some mutual sexual touching. Right now her limit seems to be a hug and a kiss. And now she's she set her potential limits as massaging I haven't had any interest in pursuing that as I feel it would only lead to more frustration at this point. So now I'm depressed. My wife just picked up on this last night and asked me what was wrong but my son was right there so I just said I'm tired. Unless I chose to accept things as they are, I know I have two choices. 1) have the real talk when I'm actually prepared to leave. ( January is my timeline) or 2) attempt couples counciling. Edit: A note on my level of depression. I've done a test with my counselor and it's at a moderate level, not enough to effect my physical health. I have a hard time talking to my wife about these needs as it feels like I'm just whining about nothing. There's more important things then sex right? It makes it sound like that's all I care about when I bring it up. You are depressed, but it's important not to think about it as clinical depression. The kind of depression you medicate is when there's no clear reason for it. You have a big honking reason. If you had a side chick (like a wife in her own SM), would giving your wife hugs, kisses, and massages be okay? That had been my plan when I started dating. Give her all teh love she wants, get what I want from someone who wants it too. Instead, my wife reset. I don't recall anyone at ILIASM saying marriage counseling helped, but my memory isn't what it was. Others may correct me. Dr. PsychMom says you fix the sex at the same time you fix the emotional connection. This may be exceptionally rare. Opening teh marriage for teh sake if sex forces that broken component of teh marriage front and center. As always, mind the Baza and make sure you're prepared for impact. Some refusers are mistreating their spouses hoping they'll divorce. Informed outsourcing puts the impetus on them, and dishonesty is not a reason they can cite. The sex was teh reason for teh divorce. You can explain that, especially if she weaves some tapestry of bullshit. If she doesn't want the truth out, she'll keep her mouth shut about why you divorced. Being frigid is not a good look. NorthstarMom's observation is very applicable. You went elsewhere for sex because you had to. This directly attributes blame for a divorce on the refuser. That was not their plan. |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Dec 1, 2023 7:58:16 GMT -5
miestas: "There's more important things then sex right? It makes it sound like that's all I care about when I bring it up." While there are more important things than sex in a marriage, sex is the only thing in most people's marriages that can only be obtained in your marriage. Otherwise, you are just roommmates, and that makes marital sex very important for people who like sex and are married. Lack of sex in such situations is an important, not a trivial, problem. This is a good point and the main reason I'm thinking about leaving. She's not comfortable with an open marriage, I'm not interested the the trouble of sneaking around and she's flat out said she's not interested in sex ever. In my talk this will be probably be something that comes up with my justification. |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Dec 1, 2023 22:34:39 GMT -5
So, I actually had a chat with my wife again. And I brought up that I'm depressed about the lack of physical affection and sex specifically.
She thinks I'm too focused on sex. She brought up that her therapist has told her that it's up to me to differentiate between intimacy and sex. If I can't make that distinction then it's not going to work.
I have a feeling that therapists are really there to get paid to tell you what you want to hear.
That being said we're going to try couples counciling.
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miestas
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Post by miestas on Dec 2, 2023 4:07:08 GMT -5
So, I actually had a chat with my wife again. And I brought up that I'm depressed about the lack of physical affection and sex specifically. She thinks I'm too focused on sex. She brought up that her therapist has told her that it's up to me to differentiate between intimacy and sex. If I can't make that distinction then it's not going to work. I have a feeling that therapists are really there to get paid to tell you what you want to hear. That being said we're going to try couples counciling. I guess you already know that the only way you know what her therapist said is because your wife told you. What I mean is that your wife could be lying about that. If she isn’t lying, then the therapist is an idiot. Any fool can differentiate between intimacy and sex, and that is not the problem. The problem is that your wife doesn’t want sex, and you do. Sex is a way for you, m76, to give and receive intimacy and love. Your wife is the one with the problem, because she can’t, or won’t, engage in that form of giving and receiving. She is just passing the blame off on you because she doesn’t want to admit that she has a serious flaw in her makeup. In her defense, who really wants to admit that they are defective in such a basic way? So I understand why she would go through all sorts of convoluted rationalizations to avoid facing that fact. But the fact is that you’re normal and healthy, and she isn’t. At least in that regard, anyway. Pretty simple, really. Just my opinion, but I sure hope your couple counseling will not be with that therapist. |
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Post by h on Dec 3, 2023 8:27:59 GMT -5
So, I actually had a chat with my wife again. And I brought up that I'm depressed about the lack of physical affection and sex specifically. She thinks I'm too focused on sex. She brought up that her therapist has told her that it's up to me to differentiate between intimacy and sex. If I can't make that distinction then it's not going to work. I have a feeling that therapists are really there to get paid to tell you what you want to hear. That being said we're going to try couples counciling. Your wife is lying or the therapist is incompetent. No good therapist would be making judgements about someone they have not met. IF the therapist said that, then your wife will use that as justification to continue the status quo. I think you should look for a marriage counselor who is also open to discussing divorce because this looks like an impasse. |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Dec 3, 2023 10:19:18 GMT -5
I do understand from my wife's point of view that sex and intimacy are two different things. But for me they are one and the same and after years of just being given various excuses, we really are likely at an impasse. We're booking a different couples therapist for us both to visit together. This is my last shot.
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miestas
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Post by miestas on Dec 3, 2023 14:34:39 GMT -5
I do understand from my wife's point of view that sex and intimacy are two different things. But for me they are one and the same and after years of just being given various excuses, we really are likely at an impasse. We're booking a different couples therapist for us both to visit together. This is my last shot. Good luck. I mean that. I hope you can get somewhere with the help of the therapist. |
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Post by sweetplumeria on Dec 7, 2023 8:43:20 GMT -5
I do understand from my wife's point of view that sex and intimacy are two different things. But for me they are one and the same and after years of just being given various excuses, we really are likely at an impasse. We're booking a different couples therapist for us both to visit together. This is my last shot. Good luck. I mean that. I hope you can get somewhere with the help of the therapist. I like that Miestas can be so positive. I think I have been in my situation too long and I am too jaded. I would view that couples counseling as a 'get out of jail free card'. |
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Post by worksforme2 on Dec 7, 2023 9:01:50 GMT -5
Good luck. I mean that. I hope you can get somewhere with the help of the therapist. I like that Miestas can be so positive. I think I have been in my situation too long and I am too jaded. I would view that couples counseling as a 'get out of jail free card'. Now that would really be dependent on what the counselor/therapist had to say. If the advise is to go back to dating 101 and act like high school kids with the just petting and some kissing maybe. Or just cuddling, i don't see that helping anyone but the refuser to string things out even longer. And there would be no getting out of jail. |
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Post by sweetplumeria on Dec 7, 2023 9:08:51 GMT -5
I like that Miestas can be so positive. I think I have been in my situation too long and I am too jaded. I would view that couples counseling as a 'get out of jail free card'. Now that would really be dependent on what the counselor/therapist had to say. If the advise is to go back to dating 101 and act like high school kids with the just petting and some kissing maybe. Or just cuddling, i don't see that helping anyone but the refuser to string things out even longer. And there would be no getting out of jail. Ugh, your right. I guess I was only thinking about some of the language used. Like the word impasse. It's kind of final language. |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Dec 7, 2023 9:37:15 GMT -5
I like that Miestas can be so positive. I think I have been in my situation too long and I am too jaded. I would view that couples counseling as a 'get out of jail free card'. Now that would really be dependent on what the counselor/therapist had to say. If the advise is to go back to dating 101 and act like high school kids with the just petting and some kissing maybe. Or just cuddling, i don't see that helping anyone but the refuser to string things out even longer. And there would be no getting out of jail. This is the problem, in most cases going back to those basics might make your partner more comfortable and would help create an environment where they may want to initiate or be open to additional contact. In my case since she's asexual, it doesn't matter what I do she simply will not progress beyond simple kissing. I haven't even had a long deep fench kiss in years. Petting or anything under the clothes will not ever happen. It doesn't make me want to put any effort into the relationship but she will complain that I'm distant if I'm not trying. |
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Post by toughtiger on Dec 7, 2023 10:02:17 GMT -5
So, I actually had a chat with my wife again. And I brought up that I'm depressed about the lack of physical affection and sex specifically. She thinks I'm too focused on sex. She brought up that her therapist has told her that it's up to me to differentiate between intimacy and sex. If I can't make that distinction then it's not going to work. I have a feeling that therapists are really there to get paid to tell you what you want to hear. That being said we're going to try couples counciling. Many are there for just to validate the patients point of view ............... so many therapists IF they tell the client "wow pull your head out" .... that would end any further sessions... Many say they just help the person see the answer in their own time..... but i just hear cha ching of the session costs. My new boss told me about his couples counseling and I had to laugh..... he did say he got personal growth out of it but marriage was already gone before starting he said his wife was selfish in therapy .... she blew a gasket ... therapist says " selfish " is a trigger word and got wife to agree she was "self centered" ... no difference just rewording things.... i have tried all that approach with different phrases ......... still spouse is clueless that i am serious .... no sex = no marriage. |
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Post by worksforme2 on Dec 7, 2023 10:27:25 GMT -5
Now that would really be dependent on what the counselor/therapist had to say. If the advise is to go back to dating 101 and act like high school kids with the just petting and some kissing maybe. Or just cuddling, i don't see that helping anyone but the refuser to string things out even longer. And there would be no getting out of jail. This is the problem, in most cases going back to those basics might make your partner more comfortable and would help create an environment where they may want to initiate or be open to additional contact. In my case since she's asexual, it doesn't matter what I do she simply will not progress beyond simple kissing. I haven't even had a long deep fench kiss in years. Petting or anything under the clothes will not ever happen. It doesn't make me want to put any effort into the relationship but she will complain that I'm distant if I'm not trying. I would disagree with your statement that "in most cases" going back to basics would make a partner feel more comfortable initiating. I have yet to read here that those who have done counselling have experienced "in most cases", a reversal in the refusing partner, and a new willingness to initiate intimacy. |
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