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Post by deadzone75 on Jun 10, 2024 19:55:07 GMT -5
Hanlon's razor.My wife felt bad about constant refusal. I warned her I would stop tolerating it. Nothing changed. Then I started dating. We've been sexless for just two months out of the last 4 and a half years since she reset. I do not think my wife was ever being mean. She just did not recognize the mandatory nature of sexuality in a marriage. Just plain didn't see or consider it. She didn't think about it. Not sex, not the consequences of non-consensual celibacy. Until I pointed a gun at our "monogamy", she didn't give it serious thought; a crisis was necessary. Most people have affairs. I merely scheduled one. That's exactly it. She simply never thinks about it doesn't understand why it's important. I think you are letting her off easy here. She DOES think about it. She thinks about it when she's reading her romance books. She's thinking about it when she's masturbating. What she doesn't think about is you. She knows why it's important; she just doesn't care. How many counseling sessions have you had, and she outright refuses to even try a single assignment? She told you before the trip, because you were hesitant about it, that it would be a good way to "reconnect" as you wanted to. She got her way, and she gave you the finger for the whole trip, and then insulted you with an "apology" as you were headed home. Her actions are calculated and deceitful. Her actions are far more hurtful than those of many refusers I have read about here. |
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Post by isthisit on Jun 11, 2024 5:22:32 GMT -5
She asked a bunch of questions about what I consider sexual touch (really?) So I defined it as me touching her vagina and she touching me, either manually or orally. I am quite lost for words. If that doesn’t define your situation for you, nothing will. She knows fine well what sexual touch entails. For my money, her question was ‘what is the minimum I have to put out?’ |
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Post by worksforme2 on Jun 11, 2024 5:59:17 GMT -5
That's exactly it. She simply never thinks about it doesn't understand why it's important. I think you are letting her off easy here. She DOES think about it. She thinks about it when she's reading her romance books. She's thinking about it when she's masturbating. What she doesn't think about is you. She knows why it's important; she just doesn't care. How many counseling sessions have you had, and she outright refuses to even try a single assignment? She told you before the trip, because you were hesitant about it, that it would be a good way to "reconnect" as you wanted to. She got her way, and she gave you the finger for the whole trip, and then insulted you with an "apology" as you were headed home. Her actions are calculated and deceitful. Her actions are far more hurtful than those of many refusers I have read about here. I am in the boat with deadzone75.....her actions are decietful and calculated. She never had any intentions of entertaining any intimacy with you on this trip. She manipulate you into thinking your thoughtfull actons would somehow bring her to see you in an intimate way. It was a flea flicker play and it worked perfectly. She got the all expenses paid holiday and it came free to her. You on the other hand have come away with nothing. Except the once again dramitic proof of her willingness to manipulate you to get what she wanted. This type of behavior is likely to continue for the forseeable future, until you choose to see it for what it is. |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Jun 12, 2024 12:50:47 GMT -5
I'm experiencing a lot of anxiety over the upcoming planned physical time. I'm waiting for the inevitable excuse.
I hope something happens but I hate that I expect nothing.
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Missingout
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Age Range: 46-50
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Post by Missingout on Jun 13, 2024 15:16:46 GMT -5
I'm experiencing a lot of anxiety over the upcoming planned physical time. I'm waiting for the inevitable excuse. I hope something happens but I hate that I expect nothing. Ok are we still talking about physical time as in another massage? Or are you talking about a set time aside to play hide the sausage?🤣 Try not to work yourself up to much. Let it happen and make it last a long time. And if she asks are you done tell her no and keep telling her no. If she asks why tell her you don't know when the next time your gonna get it is. Ware her down🤣😜 Sorry this isn't probably the best way to handle it but this is what goes through my head when my wife would try to set a time up for sex. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Jun 14, 2024 5:43:51 GMT -5
Okay. How disappointing was it?
Or, did she totally surprise us all?
I'll put a fiver on the former. Anybody want some action? I'll give 2:1 odds.
Over/under?
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m76
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Post by m76 on Jun 14, 2024 6:01:40 GMT -5
Okay. How disappointing was it? Or, did she totally surprise us all? I'll put a fiver on the former. Anybody want some action? I'll give 2:1 odds. Over/under? I'll spill it... So we were laying it bed watching some TV, when the show was done I leaned over and kissed her and asked if she would be ok with me touching her. The answer was no. I'm thinking to myself, well, guess this is it, but then I asked if she would touch me. She surprised me when she said yes. Long story short, I got a hand job. Was it nice? Yep. Do I want more? Yep. It didn't feel mechanical and I think she genuinely enjoyed my reaction. So taking into consideration that 9 months ago when I brought up the subject of sexual touch and sex it was a hard no, and she had said I would just need to change, this is an encouraging development. So I'm hoping to build on this, work up to more stuff and make it more often. I'm not going to spiral into the questions of what if it never progresses right now. This feels very much like the first tentative steps towards sex when we were teenagers but without the hormones helping. |
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Post by Apocrypha on Jun 14, 2024 9:32:52 GMT -5
Okay. How disappointing was it? Or, did she totally surprise us all? I'll put a fiver on the former. Anybody want some action? I'll give 2:1 odds. Over/under? I'll spill it... So we were laying it bed watching some TV, when the show was done I leaned over and kissed her and asked if she would be ok with me touching her. The answer was no. I'm thinking to myself, well, guess this is it, but then I asked if she would touch me. She surprised me when she said yes. Long story short, I got a hand job. Was it nice? Yep. Do I want more? Yep. It didn't feel mechanical and I think she genuinely enjoyed my reaction. So taking into consideration that 9 months ago when I brought up the subject of sexual touch and sex it was a hard no, and she had said I would just need to change, this is an encouraging development. So I'm hoping to build on this, work up to more stuff and make it more often. I'm not going to spiral into the questions of what if it never progresses right now. This feels very much like the first tentative steps towards sex when we were teenagers but without the hormones helping. I hope this development turns out better than mine did. I had a similar encounter or two when my partner acquiesced to a similar humble query. Later on, it came up in therapy, where I was reframed as some kind of monster - who wanted sexual touch from someone who obviously wasn't into it for herself. She somehow twisted it into some kind of exploitative sexual chore, like sex work, and framed me as a john - worse actually. It was such an atom bomb humiliation. I felt set up, and we never recovered. I never recovered- it fundamentally shifted my trust level. |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Jun 14, 2024 9:41:10 GMT -5
I'll spill it... So we were laying it bed watching some TV, when the show was done I leaned over and kissed her and asked if she would be ok with me touching her. The answer was no. I'm thinking to myself, well, guess this is it, but then I asked if she would touch me. She surprised me when she said yes. Long story short, I got a hand job. Was it nice? Yep. Do I want more? Yep. It didn't feel mechanical and I think she genuinely enjoyed my reaction. So taking into consideration that 9 months ago when I brought up the subject of sexual touch and sex it was a hard no, and she had said I would just need to change, this is an encouraging development. So I'm hoping to build on this, work up to more stuff and make it more often. I'm not going to spiral into the questions of what if it never progresses right now. This feels very much like the first tentative steps towards sex when we were teenagers but without the hormones helping. I hope this development turns out better than mine did. I had a similar encounter or two when my partner acquiesced to a similar humble query. Later on, it came up in therapy, where I was reframed as some kind of monster - who wanted sexual touch from someone who obviously wasn't into it for herself. She somehow twisted it into some kind of exploitative sexual chore, like sex work, and framed me as a john - worse actually. It was such an atom bomb humiliation. I felt set up, and we never recovered. I never recovered- it fundamentally shifted my trust level. If something like that happens I'd be done right then and there. |
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Post by deadzone75 on Jun 14, 2024 10:42:54 GMT -5
I hope this development turns out better than mine did. I had a similar encounter or two when my partner acquiesced to a similar humble query. Later on, it came up in therapy, where I was reframed as some kind of monster - who wanted sexual touch from someone who obviously wasn't into it for herself. She somehow twisted it into some kind of exploitative sexual chore, like sex work, and framed me as a john - worse actually. It was such an atom bomb humiliation. I felt set up, and we never recovered. I never recovered- it fundamentally shifted my trust level. If something like that happens I'd be done right then and there. The problem is, you won't be done. Without a major intervention, you will never break from her web of lies. It's shocking to know she has been manipulating you like this since you were teenagers. As mentioned by member isthisit earlier, your W was looking for the least amount of effort needed to buy another year or so. I'm curious if she even saw the whole thing through or if she just managed a few strokes. In any event, if this world is where you choose to remain, I wish you the best. But I implore you to consider your friendly co-worker, if you still have contact with her. Do yourself the biggest favor you could ever do, and go to her and let her have you for one night. No person here can free you from the grip of manipulation, nor can your current therapist. But maybe your co-worker can. If you experience real sexual touch...not from negotiation or assignments or blackmail, but from REAL desire, maybe that will break you free. |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Jun 14, 2024 11:55:53 GMT -5
If something like that happens I'd be done right then and there. The problem is, you won't be done. Without a major intervention, you will never break from her web of lies. It's shocking to know she has been manipulating you like this since you were teenagers. As mentioned by member isthisit earlier, your W was looking for the least amount of effort needed to buy another year or so. I'm curious if she even saw the whole thing through or if she just managed a few strokes. In any event, if this world is where you choose to remain, I wish you the best. But I implore you to consider your friendly co-worker, if you still have contact with her. Do yourself the biggest favor you could ever do, and go to her and let her have you for one night. No person here can free you from the grip of manipulation, nor can your current therapist. But maybe your co-worker can. If you experience real sexual touch...not from negotiation or assignments or blackmail, but from REAL desire, maybe that will break you free. My personal opinion is that this is something that she's made an effort to do knowing its something I wanted. So that's worth exploring to see how far that will go. My biggest concern, beyond the baby steps we're taking is why she really doesn't want me touching her. It definitely feels like she's avoiding the slightest possibility of being aroused. There's a high level of avoidance still happening here and it's something to discuss further. We've also been using the metaphor of buckets of needs and how my bucket is empty. After we finished last night she said "I hope that filled your bucket." Certainly made it sound like she got nothing out of it. |
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Post by deadzone75 on Jun 14, 2024 14:27:48 GMT -5
The problem is, you won't be done. Without a major intervention, you will never break from her web of lies. It's shocking to know she has been manipulating you like this since you were teenagers. As mentioned by member isthisit earlier, your W was looking for the least amount of effort needed to buy another year or so. I'm curious if she even saw the whole thing through or if she just managed a few strokes. In any event, if this world is where you choose to remain, I wish you the best. But I implore you to consider your friendly co-worker, if you still have contact with her. Do yourself the biggest favor you could ever do, and go to her and let her have you for one night. No person here can free you from the grip of manipulation, nor can your current therapist. But maybe your co-worker can. If you experience real sexual touch...not from negotiation or assignments or blackmail, but from REAL desire, maybe that will break you free. My personal opinion is that this is something that she's made an effort to do knowing its something I wanted. So that's worth exploring to see how far that will go. My biggest concern, beyond the baby steps we're taking is why she really doesn't want me touching her. It definitely feels like she's avoiding the slightest possibility of being aroused. There's a high level of avoidance still happening here and it's something to discuss further. We've also been using the metaphor of buckets of needs and how my bucket is empty. After we finished last night she said "I hope that filled your bucket." Certainly made it sound like she got nothing out of it. After she said "I hope that filled your bucket", I would have immediately asked for a divorce. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Jun 14, 2024 19:34:13 GMT -5
My personal opinion is that this is something that she's made an effort to do knowing its something I wanted. So that's worth exploring to see how far that will go.
My biggest concern, beyond the baby steps we're taking is why she really doesn't want me touching her. It definitely feels like she's avoiding the slightest possibility of being aroused. There's a high level of avoidance still happening here and it's something to discuss further.
We've also been using the metaphor of buckets of needs and how my bucket is empty. After we finished last night she said "I hope that filled your bucket." Certainly made it sound like she got nothing out of it. Seems like it did. Not to the top.... lots of room left. What would fill hers, perhaps it won't be physical or maybe another back rub, with a caveat that nothing is expected in return. Wanna take a chance with flowers? I started bring Mrs. Mirror Orchid flowers after she reset. I had resolved to get them every time we coupled. Flowers last almost the three weeks in between, so we have flowers all the time. She thanks me consistently. Apparently, gifts are a love language for her. Would she wanna see a rom com or romance movie? She writes it. Does she enjoy others' work? No choreplay, and not looking to suggest an outsized overture of gratitude that starts to look like simping/begging, but if she's not up for physical reciprocation, what would fill her bucket? What did you answer as to whether she filled yours? |
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m76
Full Member
Posts: 416
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Post by m76 on Jun 14, 2024 19:38:18 GMT -5
My personal opinion is that this is something that she's made an effort to do knowing its something I wanted. So that's worth exploring to see how far that will go.
My biggest concern, beyond the baby steps we're taking is why she really doesn't want me touching her. It definitely feels like she's avoiding the slightest possibility of being aroused. There's a high level of avoidance still happening here and it's something to discuss further.
We've also been using the metaphor of buckets of needs and how my bucket is empty. After we finished last night she said "I hope that filled your bucket." Certainly made it sound like she got nothing out of it. Seems like it did. Not to the top.... lots of room left. What would fill hers, perhaps it won't be physical or maybe another back rub, with a caveat that nothing is expected in return. Wanna take a chance with flowers? I started bring Mrs. Mirror Orchid flowers after she reset. I had resolved to get them every time we coupled. Flowers last almost the three weeks in between, so we have flowers all the time. She thanks me consistently. Apparently, gifts are a love language for her. Would she wanna see a rom com or romance movie? She writes it. Does she enjoy others' work? No choreplay, and not looking to suggest an outsized overture of gratitude that starts to look like simping/begging, but if she's not up for physical reciprocation, what would fill her bucket? What did you answer as to whether she filled yours? She said in her counciling I fill hers already. We go on dates, I get her flowers, I cook, clean etc..... Acts of service and time together are her love languages. I never stopped providing those. At this point need to keep moving forward. I'm not going to accept sliding back to no touch again. |
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Post by deadzone75 on Jun 14, 2024 20:35:47 GMT -5
Seems like it did. Not to the top.... lots of room left. What would fill hers, perhaps it won't be physical or maybe another back rub, with a caveat that nothing is expected in return. Wanna take a chance with flowers? I started bring Mrs. Mirror Orchid flowers after she reset. I had resolved to get them every time we coupled. Flowers last almost the three weeks in between, so we have flowers all the time. She thanks me consistently. Apparently, gifts are a love language for her. Would she wanna see a rom com or romance movie? She writes it. Does she enjoy others' work? No choreplay, and not looking to suggest an outsized overture of gratitude that starts to look like simping/begging, but if she's not up for physical reciprocation, what would fill her bucket? What did you answer as to whether she filled yours? She said in her counciling I fill hers already. We go on dates, I get her flowers, I cook, clean etc..... Acts of service and time together are her love languages. I never stopped providing those. At this point need to keep moving forward. I'm not going to accept sliding back to no touch again. So she's telling you she isn't having sex with you, and she gets what she needs by you doing things for her. That's a pretty rotten deal. Sounds like moving forward will be periodic handjobs. |
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