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Post by isthisit on May 23, 2024 14:06:37 GMT -5
I understand why you had to give your wife the benefit of the doubt that one last time. It’s important to help ensure you do not have to live with any “what if’s” in the future. But, at some point there has to be an end to chasing that certainty, and only you can say when that need is met.
I agree with the other posters, she is playing you and I cannot see how she can not know exactly what she is doing. My guess is that your wife feels safe to behave this way and has no concern that you will act on your marriage. It is clear that she has no interest at all in your happiness in the relationship. Everything must be on her terms, and her terms only, your needs and dreams count for little with her. You deserve better than this, and have a lot of life left to live. I wish you well with how you choose to go forward.
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Missingout
Full Member
Posts: 243
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by Missingout on May 23, 2024 16:18:50 GMT -5
I had sex 1 times during our 3wk honeymoon, I dearly wish, when we had got home I had told my W to "fuck off" and torture someone else, but I didn't and it was another 12 years before @the Talk.... wasted time... take some action mate.... before you lose what's left of your sanity... You're right. I only went on this trip because she had been telling me and the therapist that she wants to do more and that a few days away from the kids and distractions at home would help. I should have known that it wouldn't change anything but I had to give it a chance. I really just dread having the conversation that's going to happen next, it will be the end of my marriage. Saying it out loud or in text kind of hits home. Good luck brother. I had another talk last night and it was her saying that I don’t want to put up a fight to save the marriage. She has not shown me the same. She wants it to rest on my shoulders. I think. Which is ok. I can handle it. Funny thing is the last 2 weeks we were in different bedrooms and continue to be and she has not once came in. She woke me up at midnight to ask what I have said to the neighbors about our situation. She seems to worry about other people than her own husband. I explained after so many times of being rejected that I’m tired of fighting for her. Good luck brother. I hope it goes as smooth as possible.
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m76
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Posts: 377
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Post by m76 on May 23, 2024 17:09:05 GMT -5
You're right. I only went on this trip because she had been telling me and the therapist that she wants to do more and that a few days away from the kids and distractions at home would help. I should have known that it wouldn't change anything but I had to give it a chance. I really just dread having the conversation that's going to happen next, it will be the end of my marriage. Saying it out loud or in text kind of hits home. Good luck brother. I had another talk last night and it was her saying that I don’t want to put up a fight to save the marriage. She has not shown me the same. She wants it to rest on my shoulders. I think. Which is ok. I can handle it. Funny thing is the last 2 weeks we were in different bedrooms and continue to be and she has not once came in. She woke me up at midnight to ask what I have said to the neighbors about our situation. She seems to worry about other people than her own husband. I explained after so many times of being rejected that I’m tired of fighting for her. Good luck brother. I hope it goes as smooth as possible. My wife has said something similar.. that I'm just looking for a reason to end the marriage. And thank you.
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Post by worksforme2 on May 23, 2024 18:20:43 GMT -5
My wife has said something similar.. that I'm just looking for a reason to end the marriage. If you were looking for a reason to end the marriage, I don't think you need to look any farther.
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Post by mirrororchid on May 24, 2024 4:39:00 GMT -5
You're right. I only went on this trip because she had been telling me and the therapist that she wants to do more and that a few days away from the kids and distractions at home would help. I should have known that it wouldn't change anything but I had to give it a chance. I really just dread having the conversation that's going to happen next, it will be the end of my marriage. I'm going to be the contrarian here. A naked massage does, to my eyes, qualify as "more". Problem is, it did not qualify as "enough". The ladies who have fairy tales in their heads envision husbands as Prince Charming whose sole purpose is to end the movie and take them into the sunset. It is your privilege t serve her. For that reason, the naked massage step forward is to be your "test". Can you be the neutered Prince Charming long enough for her to find the evasive "mood"? Maybe your answer is "No", and in that, I'd be joining the more contemptuous majority here. Sure, go along with her silly children's story, while you talk with your lawyer and perhaps write up a will. (This is a good cover for taking all the inventory your marriage has for division in a divorce. If you stay together, it's valuable to have a will anyway.) If you're serious about fixing this, one way or another, get started on this. Just taking action to end the sexlessness is liberating. The dithering is a huge part of the despair. In your shoes, I imagine providing the nude massage would be little more than frustration. Still, she can argue she progressed and your denying such could be seen as moving the goalposts, as frustrating, disappointing, and stingy as the gesture was. Once the legal paperwork is ready to file, you can either file it, or explain that you're eager to reignite your bedroom life, but you'll begin to forge that relationship with someone more interested in you while you wait for her to figure out what it will take for her to be interested. It's up to you to decide whether you're willing to dump a lover if your wife resets. It's okay to say "No". Much depends on whether you do, deep down, wish to leave. If so, opening the marriage is misleading Mrs. m76 and likely to be a bad move.
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Post by mirrororchid on May 24, 2024 4:56:02 GMT -5
Saying it out loud or in text kind of hits home. Good luck brother. I had another talk last night and it was her saying that I don’t want to put up a fight to save the marriage. She has not shown me the same. She wants it to rest on my shoulders. I think. Which is ok. I can handle it. Funny thing is the last 2 weeks we were in different bedrooms and continue to be and she has not once came in. She woke me up at midnight to ask what I have said to the neighbors about our situation. She seems to worry about other people than her own husband. I explained after so many times of being rejected that I’m tired of fighting for her. Good luck brother. I hope it goes as smooth as possible. Congrats on sticking the landing. The neighbors thing is priceless. Just for fun, ask your wife about all the neighbors you know a little, or your friends. After all, she's expecting them to think about your sex life together. It's only fair that she put in some time obsessing about theirs. Which ones are sexual, which are willingly celibate, and which are unilaterally celibate like the two of you. Please provide supporting evidence. Papers will be graded for punctuation, and neatness.
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Post by toughtiger on May 24, 2024 7:20:21 GMT -5
Congrats on sticking the landing. The neighbors thing is priceless. Just for fun, ask your wife about all the neighbors you know a little, or your friends. After all, she's expecting them to think about your sex life together. It's only fair that she put in some time obsessing about theirs. Which ones are sexual, which are willingly celibate, and which are unilaterally celibate like the two of you. Please provide supporting evidence. Papers will be graded for punctuation, and neatness. This is priceless ..... i would like to use this line on my spouse... when he acts like we are all a happy couple in front of our neighbors.... It is funny refusers want to hide what is their choice/ their actions ... want everyone to Think all is good.
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Post by greatcoastal on May 24, 2024 11:11:46 GMT -5
Saying it out loud or in text kind of hits home. Good luck brother. I had another talk last night and it was her saying that I don’t want to put up a fight to save the marriage. She has not shown me the same. She wants it to rest on my shoulders. I think. Which is ok. I can handle it. Funny thing is the last 2 weeks we were in different bedrooms and continue to be and she has not once came in. She woke me up at midnight to ask what I have said to the neighbors about our situation. She seems to worry about other people than her own husband. I explained after so many times of being rejected that I’m tired of fighting for her. Good luck brother. I hope it goes as smooth as possible. Okay, pretend it's on your shoulders, that keeps you from giving her any emotional ammo. to use against you. Meanwhile talk with other men ,who have gone through it. It's very helpful to have male friends who you see as a mentor , to re-enforce the truth - that you went above and beyond and that this is "her problem" not yours. Better to talk to the tree, it won't be telling their side of your story to the other trees!! When my last woman of three steady years, abruptly ended things, she told the neighbors her emotional side of things, many of them where doubting it and questioning it. I told them my 'factual' side of things, and they all came to the same conclusion - she has problems you can't fix, find someone else.
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Post by Apocrypha on May 27, 2024 14:10:20 GMT -5
You're right. I only went on this trip because she had been telling me and the therapist that she wants to do more and that a few days away from the kids and distractions at home would help. I should have known that it wouldn't change anything but I had to give it a chance. I really just dread having the conversation that's going to happen next, it will be the end of my marriage. I'm going to be the contrarian here. A naked massage does, to my eyes, qualify as "more". Problem is, it did not qualify as "enough". Does it though? Because it could simply be bait intended to elicit a sexual advance from her husband that would then be rejected (and thus start a fight about sex - which may be the actual intent). Or, it could be bait intended to be used to destroy him with his own desire - by intentionally making theater of how much she is sacrificing personally by indulging her husband with sex that she makes clear she doesn't want to have with him. I've had both versions of that song more times than I wish to recall, before I finally realized the inevitability of it. m76 , when I finally pulled the plug and meant it, it wasn't in during the hot fights, nor after her shattering affair, wasn't when she pitched an open marriage, and wasn't when she broke every single rule we established in that open marriage to take care of each other. It wasn't when I gave up on sex and resigned myself to married celibacy for years on end. It wasn't after two Hail Mary vacation trips to exotic resorts where it doesn't get better than that. It was after all that. It was directly after a simple weekend at the far end of a daytrip overnight motel with the kids to do a forest activity. I saw at lunch, a couple that was maybe ten or 15 yearS older than me in the same dining area. They sat on the same side of the table, had obviously taken a bit of care to dress up for each other, and they touched unnecessarily and looked and spoke kindly to each other. They saw each other and their was no pain or argument between them. I realized immediately - mid bite in my burger, how far I was from even that. And it was the end of my marriage that day, for real. We discussed it that night.
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Post by mirrororchid on May 31, 2024 5:15:28 GMT -5
I'm going to be the contrarian here. A naked massage does, to my eyes, qualify as "more". Problem is, it did not qualify as "enough". Does it though? Because it could simply be bait intended to elicit a sexual advance from her husband that would then be rejected (and thus start a fight about sex - which may be the actual intent). Or, it could be bait intended to be used to destroy him with his own desire - by intentionally making theater of how much she is sacrificing personally by indulging her husband with sex that she makes clear she doesn't want to have with him. I've had both versions of that song more times than I wish to recall, before I finally realized the inevitability of it. I don't see it as either/or It has moved the needle towards more intimacy, and it could easily be her intent to keep it there and go no farther or proceed at a glacial pace, or reverse it if she thinks it safe to do so. Slot machine strategy. Bread crumb enough to lower the temperature, then go back to what you want. Lather, rinse, repeat.
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m76
Full Member
Posts: 377
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Post by m76 on Jun 10, 2024 9:24:00 GMT -5
Last gasp.... So on our anniversary trip where we had talked about intimacy before going and she ended up writing each evening, she gave me the excuse that since I was in bed reading she didn't think I wanted to do anything. However she says on the last day she realized we didn't do anything and felt bad about it but didn't say anything. So this past weekend we were camping for her birthday and one evening I specifically asked about doing something and she said no because her stomach was upset (this is a regular excuse). So now, my last ditch effort (I know I've said this before) but here it goes... on our way home in the car I told her that it seems like spontaneity doesn't work and me dropping hints in advance doesn't work so why don't we schedule a specific time for some kind of sexual touch. She said ok and we now have Thursday night scheduled. She asked a bunch of questions about what I consider sexual touch (really?) So I defined it as me touching her vagina and she touching me, either manual or orally. And she agreed. So here I am hoping that something happens now but I'm also not expecting her to follow through on her promise.
On an side note, although her agreeing gives me some hope, it's really not sexy to me to have to spell out exactly what I need rather than letting passion take a session where it naturally leads like we had once upon a time. However, as someone else once said, scheduled sex is better then no sex.
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Post by lonelyhubby on Jun 10, 2024 9:37:47 GMT -5
Take the schedule - at least it will be a start, as long as the schedule is honored.
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Post by deadzone75 on Jun 10, 2024 16:45:00 GMT -5
Last gasp.... So on our anniversary trip where we had talked about intimacy before going and she ended up writing each evening, she gave me the excuse that since I was in bed reading she didn't think I wanted to do anything. However she says on the last day she realized we didn't do anything and felt bad about it but didn't say anything. So this past weekend we were camping for her birthday and one evening I specifically asked about doing something and she said no because her stomach was upset (this is a regular excuse). So now, my last ditch effort (I know I've said this before) but here it goes... on our way home in the car I told her that it seems like spontaneity doesn't work and me dropping hints in advance doesn't work so why don't we schedule a specific time for some kind of sexual touch. She said ok and we now have Thursday night scheduled. She asked a bunch of questions about what I consider sexual touch (really?) So I defined it as me touching her vagina and she touching me, either manual or orally. And she agreed. So here I am hoping that something happens now but I'm also not expecting her to follow through on her promise. On an side note, although her agreeing gives me some hope, it's really not sexy to me to have to spell out exactly what I need rather than letting passion take a session where it naturally leads like we had once upon a time. However, as someone else once said, scheduled sex is better then no sex. Aside from the fact that she will not follow through on Thursday, I am consistently in shock of her endless manipulation tactics. She ignored you the entire trip and then threw out a "yeah, sorry about that!" after the fact. I can't tell if she is truly getting off on your pain or if she is just galagtically stupid.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jun 10, 2024 18:40:44 GMT -5
I can't tell if she is truly getting off on your pain or if she is just galagtically stupid. Hanlon's razor.My wife felt bad about constant refusal. I warned her I would stop tolerating it. Nothing changed. Then I started dating. We've been sexless for just two months out of the last 4 and a half years since she reset. I do not think my wife was ever being mean. She just did not recognize the mandatory nature of sexuality in a marriage. Just plain didn't see or consider it. She didn't think about it. Not sex, not the consequences of non-consensual celibacy. Until I pointed a gun at our "monogamy", she didn't give it serious thought; a crisis was necessary. Most people have affairs. I merely scheduled one.
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m76
Full Member
Posts: 377
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Post by m76 on Jun 10, 2024 19:20:04 GMT -5
I can't tell if she is truly getting off on your pain or if she is just galagtically stupid. Hanlon's razor.My wife felt bad about constant refusal. I warned her I would stop tolerating it. Nothing changed. Then I started dating. We've been sexless for just two months out of the last 4 and a half years since she reset. I do not think my wife was ever being mean. She just did not recognize the mandatory nature of sexuality in a marriage. Just plain didn't see or consider it. She didn't think about it. Not sex, not the consequences of non-consensual celibacy. Until I pointed a gun at our "monogamy", she didn't give it serious thought; a crisis was necessary. Most people have affairs. I merely scheduled one. That's exactly it. She simply never thinks about it doesn't understand why it's important.
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