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Post by greatcoastal on Aug 18, 2023 16:56:51 GMT -5
Thanks for your response Well if nothing else you have shown me that things could be much worse.... it is a bunch of anger at the moment..... do not think i should do things in anger ..... talking about things on this site has helped some as others really get it and can understand ..... some other forums are insane with people who make moronic suggestions like "have a date night " as if we all in this situation could not come up with that GEM... I have a lot of work to do to really understand my feelings... Dear toughtiger, Anger is good, anger leads to action, actions lead to improvements...for everyone, when handled responsibly! Anger can also show that you're finally feeling worthy enough to get angry about the way you have been mistreated, fooled and taken advantage of? ( signs of false hope)
I remember having my AHA..moments,some call it- tipping point, or light bulb moments-, I'm guessing you're having those? it's also known as " the final nail in the coffin".
These are good things! especially when you start looking deep inside yourself, and realize - i've been giving for so long and receiving very little back. However, it's partially my fault! My fault for settling, being co-dependent, and far to passive- a yes dear! the nice guy, Mr. keep the peace at all coast. Mr. it's for the children.
I had that same " date night" suggestion from the psychologist we where seeing. So we had the dinner date, The next meeting we had I informed the psychologist " she called my conversations 'useless dribble!!'
it wasn't long after that when he informed us " the two of you are giving a horrible example for your children ( all 6 of them) of what a loving, intimate, caring, relationship, aught to be!----- That was my tipping point!! ( I told myself- I'll do it for them!!)The no sex thing started a snowball of I met someone who is in similar shoes (SM) and we chat and video spend time together and this person makes me feel alive and wanted.... it may sound silly but even though my feelings for spouse are almost all gone....... Nothing silly about that!! And yes ,many of us have been deeply scared for life by being belittled in a SM, death by a thousand cuts, and have no feeling, maybe pitty, for our spouse.
i just feel fooled that there ever was something ..... How could someone treat their spouse like this and still to my face tells me he LOVES me ...seriously i do not think he knows what that word means. Most likely their was 'something' there.....several scenereos come to mind...The having sex (love bombing) to hook you into marriage and then going stone cold. Totaly different expectations of what the marriage was going to be - lack of communication. Thinking 'I can change them, I can help this person'...(false hope) I could go on, and on....Words...word salad, a top sign of a manipulator. All part of gas-lighting and the moving of the goal post to keep you guessing yourself. Remember actions speak far louder than words. Like the action ( through words, and more) from your friend. Part of the healing journey!
Here's a definition of the word Love, that i like:
Love is the greatest commitment to the good of another person! You may be giving that and are quite capable of it, but is that what you are receiving?
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Post by jerri on Aug 20, 2023 21:39:36 GMT -5
I've been married for 25 years. 15 of those have been sexless. I stopped trying to initiate sex a long time ago but I did try once again about a year ago. Tried to talk about it and she basically said that its not something she's ever interested again and hopes that I still love her. I do... but I feel lonely. I'm still trying to decide if its worthwhile to stay with a friend or walk away. I have two teenagers, one in university. A divorce would likely ruin me financially. MirrorOrchid had a detailed writing of how he turned around his marriage after he announced that he would be getting sex elsewhere. I realize it's hard to imagine getting sex elsewhere but it destroying you financially and getting a divorce isn't good either. There's risk either way. Do laugh and get along with your spouse for the most part? Do you have 5 positive interactions for every negative interaction? Any chance you can find any of John Gottmans relationship books. (Maybe see where you stand?) If you think you have an overall good marriage worth saving let us know after you go over one of the Gottman books. You can find one of them at your library and download the audio while doing chores. I believe there's someone for everyone. Even if the wife doesn't want sex you can still have dateniggt with her and shag someone else. I like the way MirrorOrchid did his and he wrote about it in detailed journal style. A lot of members have done it so differently that they are all right. In time maybe you find out what you want. I calmly sat on the bed and told my husband I was stepping out of the marriage for sex. But I was really shaking in my boots and had to pick up a lot of pieces. After throwing that grenade. We can guide you but all of the decisions need to be made by you. |
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Post by lessingham on Aug 21, 2023 4:58:13 GMT -5
One of the great myths of today is men lie and women are honest. Every film, every tv rom com wonen demand tbe truth and see tbrough men's lies.
Women lie and they are hurtfully useless at it. Rather than tell the trutb they find a lue that they can sell, a lie to kerp things as they are. My wife lies about sex, maybe tomorrow, maybe next week, we'll see. She has no intention, but the lie kicks the can a few more days down the road.
Your wife lies when she says she loves you, hoping you will buy the lie and forget sbout sex for a few more dsys. Msybe she buys into the lie too.
This week I am in a dark place so maybe I am being overtly nasty. But, maybe the next time she says she loves you reply, no you don't. If you love me make love to me. Or say, lovers have sex, come on and prove you are my lover.
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Post by worksforme2 on Aug 21, 2023 5:05:15 GMT -5
This speaks exactly to what i am feeling and want to do with my future..... toughtiger,...Good luck with proposing a "don't ask, don't tell" approach to stepping out for sex and intimacy....I tried this approach with my now X. She would have no part of it. She preferred a divorce before allowing another woman to enter the picture. Vanity and control issues can often play a role in the way spouses react. But you might have better luck. It seems men adapt themselves better to their spouse having a FWB than wives. Baseballgirl and several other ladies have also able to make this arrangement. So it might be worth a shot. |
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Post by deadzone75 on Aug 21, 2023 9:56:52 GMT -5
Angeleyes, there is no affection at all. There's been a few times where I've even tried to kiss her and she's turned her head. I've put a hand on her hip while laying in bed and she'll push it away. She says she loves me though. I would say at this point I'm not "in love" but we're deep friends. Being single and walking away from this life is just really really hard and I question if I'll be happier or still lonely and paying rent on my own. She doesn't love you; she likes you. She has given you a 3rd degree send-off with the "Hope you still love me!" line. It doesn't even sound like an ideal "deep friends" situation. It sounds like the only question here is can you swing paying rent on your own. If you really are good friends, you can remain good friends from a distance. It is the ultimate insult to find a person who has exchanged vows with you reverts to middle school mentality and thinks that "I like you as a friend" is an acceptable explanation for this kind of betrayal. See a lawyer, see a sex worker on the side, try to get into a full-blown relationship. The single life will be a breeze compared to the death sentence you are currently serving. Believe me, I know. My W was the one to put me out of my own misery. I was terrified in ways, and in other ways I felt better than I had since my teenage years. Even a 10/90% chance is better than a locked fate. |
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m76
Full Member
Posts: 416
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Post by m76 on Aug 21, 2023 10:27:42 GMT -5
I have a counciling session setup for Wednesday.
I know any talk I have with my wife won't make a difference. So I need to do what's best for me.
I don't know what that means for me yet. It's hard to walk away from 25 years of shared history and how would a break up effect the kids.
I also know with the rent prices these days it would be very difficult to afford another place to rent.
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Post by jerri on Aug 21, 2023 23:40:17 GMT -5
I have a counciling session setup for Wednesday. I know any talk I have with my wife won't make a difference. So I need to do what's best for me. I don't know what that means for me yet. It's hard to walk away from 25 years of shared history and how would a break up effect the kids. I also know with the rent prices these days it would be very difficult to afford another place to rent. Awesome that you are have your best interests at heart! |
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Post by lessingham on Aug 22, 2023 10:03:10 GMT -5
Good luck with the counselling. Remember if you go alone it is all about you so explore your options
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Post by gdindy56 on Sept 8, 2023 20:43:23 GMT -5
I too have gone on online sites over the past years hoping to find that person I’d be willing to leave for.
I’ve been on a good amount of dates and had some great sex with some, and some clunker dates also. But only one or two I’d have changed my life for, so I stay in a many year sexless, emotionless, touchless marriage.
The sites do at least let you have a decent look at people that fit your desires but unfortunately those I want don’t want me and the ones that want me, I have zero sexual interest in.
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Post by gdindy56 on Sept 8, 2023 20:53:48 GMT -5
What I’m seeing clearly is there are few women in my age bracket that really care about sex anymore - they might give some lip service to make themselves sound attractive to a man but when push comes to shove, they don’t want any type of affection - whether it’s oral on the man, or true PIV.
They all post they want to travel and want travel partners, want someone to do all of the G Rated things in life - basically be a buddy and friend - and then cloak themselves with religion basically saying oh no, that’s important not physical attraction.
Reading this site - the sexless relationships seem to be in the many many millions with a few still enjoying it.
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Post by mirrororchid on Sept 25, 2023 5:41:30 GMT -5
My ex works as an Electrical Engineer and worked in top security govt. clearance positions. So she could move her/our money around on her computer at work and their was no way for me, and my attorney to get access to it. Near the end of our dragged out (by my ex) 18month , 5 different attorney's (hers) divorce, I discovered that she had transferred about $300,000 in accounts. ... My ex was questioned under oath about the moving of the money. Her responses " I don't know? I have no idea?" ... The same woman who ,on the evening when I told her I filed for divorce said to me " I see you spent $22 on clothes the other day". ... You can also with draw all but a penny from a joint account, and claim it for 'living expenses' right before the divorce ... If the roles were reversed, you'd be unanimously declared a "monster". I suspect some would describe your wife as "empowered". |
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Post by mirrororchid on Sept 25, 2023 6:00:02 GMT -5
Not sure how I missed this goldmine thread. Catching up.... worksforme2 Did Mr. Bballgirl know about her trysts? I was under the impression hers were secret. I'd also point out "proposing" an FWB is a way of "asking". I have not yet heard of any refuser agreeing, so this may be wasted time. If you want the FWB, and are prepared for divorce (including economic and social fallout it may include) if they won't stop refusing or interfere with your attending to physical drives, it's time to schedule the search for an FWB, with the deadline made clear. You may be willing to allow the refuser to help you decide how to outsource, but not if; much as Jerri settled into eventually. lessingham I think refusers can love their spouses. Parents love children without being lovers. Our plight is in not being children. Limited love is not sufficient, even if it qualifies in many important, welcome ways. toughtiger Jerri suggested you check Gottman. One of his observations was that contempt is one of the surest signs of a doomed marriage. Your messages convey scorn and sarcasm towards Mr. Toughtiger. Those of us reading it surely understand its origin. I wish to mention this because if a divorce is unwelcome, you may need to address this disrespect, not because he deserves it, but because it gets you farther from your goal of staying married, if that is a goal you have. (Fine if it is not.) If you should mimic jerri 's approach, (always obeying the Baza before doing so), rebuilding amicable attitudes may become easier, recognizing the limitations of what he can offer, deliberately or obliviously. Some ILIASM ladies cannot envision intimacy with anyone but a life partner. Maybe that's you too. Maybe not. Maybe you don't know. |
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Post by toughtiger on Sept 25, 2023 9:11:00 GMT -5
Mirrorchild
thank you for the insight .... i am not sure what to do .... i do not see much hope of being much more then roommates...
I am tired of carrying the weight of the relationship for decades now. i know i sound sarcastic and angry because that is usually how i feel when thinking about this all....
i appreciate this site as i said before i wrote about the this subject on other sites and most people do not understand when a marriage gets this off course hard to find a way back. Divorce is a final move... it can be many things/ starting over ... maybe feeling like i failed /maybe feeling if only ....
i have developed a strong friendship with my online friend but he like me in a long term marriage does not see a way out ... discussed s fwb thing great distance between us so arranging time/ travel and still being discreet.
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Post by worksforme2 on Sept 25, 2023 9:28:58 GMT -5
Not sure how I missed this goldmine thread. Catching up.... worksforme2 Did Mr. Bballgirl know about her trysts? I was under the impression hers were secret. I'd also point out "proposing" an FWB is a way of "asking". I have not yet heard of any refuser agreeing, so this may be wasted time. If you want the FWB, and are prepared for divorce (including economic and social fallout it may include) if they won't stop refusing or interfere with your attending to physical drives, it's time to schedule the search for an FWB, with the deadline made clear. It's been a long time but I will try and recall the events around bballgirl. She divorced her H and following the divorce became remorseful about breaking up the marriage. She missed having and being a "family" She reconsiled with her H but stayed divorced. I think they eventually began cohabitating again but there was no intimacy between them. As part of the reuniting the family bballgirl adressed her having a FWB with her H. He wasn't happy about it but agreed. So she discretely began dating and engaging in sex with someone. I think she had several "friends" over a period of time and eventually settled into a long term relatonship with one. And not too awful long later she left the site. She stayed with husband as she still loved him and wanted an intact family, but continued to outsource. She hasn't been on the site in quite some time. Perhaps someone else has a better recollection of events. If so hopefully they will correct me by posting a more accurate cronology of events. |
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Post by Apocrypha on Sept 26, 2023 11:36:23 GMT -5
I got into a "don't ask don't tell" arrangement because because he didn't like me calling when I went to go visit my boyfriend. I also did not let my husband do what I was doing. I would welcome it today. But at the time, I thought I would only allow him to do it if he was shagging me as well. I thought going elsewhere for sex was already a slap in the face. [...] When my husband asks about my sexual relationships I just tell him that My sex life private for me. This speaks exactly to what i am feeling and want to do with my future..... I have also had some experience with the Don't Ask Don't Tell, as well as transparent polyamory with various levels of involvement - in the context of a sex-averse relationship. Your mileage may vary, but here's what I learned. 1. You may get sex in your life, but your home will still feel toxic, alone and isolated. Likely more than before. That's because the problem isn't just the sex - it's the upstream dysfunction that causes your partner to no longer see you as a sexual partner. It becomes much more difficult to pretend. 2. Your standards in a partner and in your level of treatment go up, rather than being diminished. 3. Particularly with Don't Ask/Tell - this is like writing a check when you don't know if you have enough money in the account. Transparency and involvement helps you know exactly what your partner is supporting (rather than tolerating), increment by increment, whereas Don't Ask/Tell puts the onus of discretion on you, and you can get very far out onto thin ice before your partner snaps. And then you have no idea of how your partner will react. In mine, my partner changed her mind and decided to follow up with a gazillion questions on what was at that point a very minor dalliance - a drink and a kiss - treating it as if I had a full blown affair (which she had done to me). There's no assurance at all that it won't be treated like an affair eventually - a distinction without a difference. Meanwhile, there is enormous effort on your part to maintain a deception. |
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