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Post by worksforme2 on Mar 16, 2024 8:49:50 GMT -5
Once again, a refuser hears but doesn't care. If she hasn't "heard you" by now, with your repeated expression of dissatisfaction, depression, and not to mention therapy sessions, she's trying really, really hard to not hear you. I mean, she doesn't even want to touch you at night unless she thinks you are unconscious, so there's no way she will ever flirt with you or think about it. I know I am being harsh, but she deserves it. Telling you...you, her husband, that you aren't respecting her boundaries when you text her a flirtation?? You might as well be a co-worker of hers. What a vile human being. The one positive is that it led to the talk, which hopefully gave you more confidence. And please do yourself a favor and look into your plan of escape. Her saying she needs time to "figure it out" means she needs time to figure out how to screw you over on the way out. Protect yourself. Ironically I've been having some really great chats with a couple of coworkers. But even though both seem willing to push the conversations more flirtatious, I'm keeping that dialed back. It is nice to know, that when I do split, I really think I'll be able to find someone that's a better match. So I have hope and no longer feel trapped. I'm sticking it out for now but my limit will be when my son is done high-school. If we're not in a fulfilling relationship by then, I'll have no reason to stay. I am in the boat with deadzone75. My 1st thoughts are that she is probably opening bank and credit card accounts in her name so she can transfer money or other assets. Once she has everthing set up she may even start moving money and getting set up so she can leave you. i am calling BS on her coming around to being a loving affectionate spouse. If she hasn't done it by now it ain't happening. Don't kid youself. |
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Post by isthisit on Mar 16, 2024 15:10:02 GMT -5
Well... guess I pushed things too far. Sent my wife a text at work suggesting we could have a shower together. Thinking i was being flirty and maybe get her thinking about it. I expected a no or and eye roll but... Text I got back was "you're not repeating my boundaries and we'll talk when I get home". Oh no! Is she going to cut off sex? But, now that I've opened this door it might be the perfect time to talk about my not wanting to be celibate. Just a reminder if you need it. Your text inviting naughtiness is perfectly normal behaviour and would be welcomed by most normal women in a normal marriage. Given your wife’s expertise in gaslighting let’s get ahead of her nonsense there, and get that fact established. I might be being pedantic here, but I am interested in her choice of vocabulary with I am *hearing* you. Sure, we can’t turn our ears off so she has no choice but to hear. The important part is, is she *listening*? |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Mar 16, 2024 15:43:35 GMT -5
Well... guess I pushed things too far. Sent my wife a text at work suggesting we could have a shower together. Thinking i was being flirty and maybe get her thinking about it. I expected a no or and eye roll but... Text I got back was "you're not repeating my boundaries and we'll talk when I get home". Oh no! Is she going to cut off sex? But, now that I've opened this door it might be the perfect time to talk about my not wanting to be celibate. Just a reminder if you need it. Your text inviting naughtiness is perfectly normal behaviour and would be welcomed by most normal women in a normal marriage. Given your wife’s expertise in gaslighting let’s get ahead of her nonsense there, and get that fact established. I might be being pedantic here, but I am interested in her choice of vocabulary with I am *hearing* you. Sure, we can’t turn our ears off so she has no choice but to hear. The important part is, is she *listening*? I'm not sure about the listening side. We had a pretty long talk yesterday. I had said we should have resolved this a long time ago and she admitted that I tried to bring it up years ago more then once and she brushed it off then. This fall when I brought it up again she heard but didn't understand how important it was. She said she finally understood a couple of weeks ago when our councilor described our needs as different buckets. My wife's bucket is filled with time together, and my acts of service. My buckets are acts of service and physical affection and those buckets are not being filled. And yet she's only really put a few drops in those buckets in the time that she "understood". I'm not really expecting any changes, I know she just doesn't want to. |
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Post by isthisit on Mar 16, 2024 15:55:35 GMT -5
I might be being pedantic here, but I am interested in her choice of vocabulary with I am *hearing* you. Sure, we can’t turn our ears off so she has no choice but to hear. The important part is, is she *listening*? I'm not sure about the listening side. We had a pretty long talk yesterday. I had said we should have resolved this a long time ago and she admitted that I tried to bring it up years ago more then once and she brushed it off then. This fall when I brought it up again she heard but didn't understand how important it was. She said she finally understood a couple of weeks ago when our councilor described our needs as different buckets. My wife's bucket is filled with time together, and my acts of service. My buckets are acts of service and physical affection and those buckets are not being filled. And yet she's only really put a few drops in those buckets in the time that she "understood". I'm not really expecting any changes, I know she just doesn't want to. So, in many ways that’s good- it sounds like she is grasping what is at stake. But without wanting to piss on your chips, she is listening to the counsellor and not you. But, regardless of who is influencing her, she can’t hide from the reality of your collective situation, and that will help to bring this situation to a resolution. I hope it works out for you and you find a happier life, whatever that looks like. |
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catsloveme
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Dwelling in the possible
Posts: 207
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Post by catsloveme on Mar 16, 2024 16:01:58 GMT -5
That is a common issue - facing the same undefined timeline with my spouse - Therapy is challenging her to own it and deal with her pushing it off (so to speak). A lot of lip service to working on it happens, and then nothing from an effort after the first day or 2. Just head games and evasion. I’m bracing myself for this to happen again with my husband. His next therapy appointment is April 1. (That being April Fool’s day hasn’t escaped my notice.) What he does will indicate how I proceed. I’m done with being celibate and done with sneaking around to get my needs met as I have done in the past. So much empathy for everyone else dealing with this. On the surface, it all seems like an issue that’s rather simple, but in reality it’s complicated and so damaging. |
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m76
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Posts: 419
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Post by m76 on Mar 18, 2024 10:53:34 GMT -5
New information came out today from our therapy session.
#1 after my son was born, my wife had postpartum depression and was on medication.
#2 she's still on a low dosage of that same medication for anxiety. I didn't know this.
#3 she has severe social anxiety where rather then go to a party she would rather say she's tied.
So these 3 things add up to the problems we have today. She's never had a high libido other then when were teenagers. Whatever she had was probably killed by the medication and the anxiety extends to sex where she wants to withdraw and just say she's tired.
However, once again she's said she's willing to do more knowing its important to me. What I've said I will do, which I always would anyway is that if she initiates some kind of sexual touch but gets anxious about it, i will not pressure her and give her time.
These revelations bring new light, and i don't want to be the a--hole. I still have needs though.
Note: The positive takeaway from this is that we've gone from her saying I would need to compromise and be celibate to her recognizing she has an issue.
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Post by jim44444 on Mar 18, 2024 18:25:19 GMT -5
New information came out today from our therapy session. #1 after my son was born, my wife had postpartum depression and was on medication. #2 she's still on a low dosage of that same medication for anxiety. I didn't know this. #3 she has severe social anxiety where rather then go to a party she would rather say she's tied. . . . These revelations bring new light, and i don't want to be the a--hole. I still have needs though. Brother m76 it appears that you have more problems in your marriage then the sexlessness. You have gone all these years not knowing these revelations? Either you are oblivious which I do not believe or your wife is duplicitous. Why would she keep this information from you? She said "she's willing to do more knowing its important to" you, can you trust her words? What is her time frame? Without a time boundary the ultimate end point is never. |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Mar 18, 2024 19:22:32 GMT -5
New information came out today from our therapy session. #1 after my son was born, my wife had postpartum depression and was on medication. #2 she's still on a low dosage of that same medication for anxiety. I didn't know this. #3 she has severe social anxiety where rather then go to a party she would rather say she's tied. . . . These revelations bring new light, and i don't want to be the a--hole. I still have needs though. Brother m76 it appears that you have more problems in your marriage then the sexlessness. You have gone all these years not knowing these revelations? Either you are oblivious which I do not believe or your wife is duplicitous. Why would she keep this information from you? She said "she's willing to do more knowing its important to" you, can you trust her words? What is her time frame? Without a time boundary the ultimate end point is never. I knew all these things, just not that her anti-anxiety medication was the same anti-depressant. What was new is how all these things could have played together to kill her sex drive. That being said, she's always known that I wanted more intimacy, this may just be more excuses. She has said that she will talk to the doctor about her medication. Although, when we talked later she told me she already knew the loss of libido was a side effect, she just didn't care. She's told me she's open to trying more but she's said that before.. I still have my personal deadline of next year when my son is done high-school. If I end up leaving I'll be certain I tried. |
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Post by deadzone75 on Mar 20, 2024 6:41:58 GMT -5
Brother m76 it appears that you have more problems in your marriage then the sexlessness. You have gone all these years not knowing these revelations? Either you are oblivious which I do not believe or your wife is duplicitous. Why would she keep this information from you? She said "she's willing to do more knowing its important to" you, can you trust her words? What is her time frame? Without a time boundary the ultimate end point is never. I knew all these things, just not that her anti-anxiety medication was the same anti-depressant. What was new is how all these things could have played together to kill her sex drive. That being said, she's always known that I wanted more intimacy, this may just be more excuses. She has said that she will talk to the doctor about her medication. Although, when we talked later she told me she already knew the loss of libido was a side effect, she just didn't care. She's told me she's open to trying more but she's said that before.. I still have my personal deadline of next year when my son is done high-school. If I end up leaving I'll be certain I tried. I think you already know there is no way she is going to talk to her doctor about her medication. She already admitted she didn't care about her absent libido. And she is NOT open to trying new things, as evident by all her refusals of these "homework assignments" given by the therapist. She's open to new things, yet won't even hug you at night. |
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Post by toughtiger on Mar 20, 2024 8:06:00 GMT -5
New information came out today from our therapy session. #1 after my son was born, my wife had postpartum depression and was on medication. #2 she's still on a low dosage of that same medication for anxiety. I didn't know this. #3 she has severe social anxiety where rather then go to a party she would rather say she's tied. So these 3 things add up to the problems we have today. She's never had a high libido other then when were teenagers. Whatever she had was probably killed by the medication and the anxiety extends to sex where she wants to withdraw and just say she's tired. However, once again she's said she's willing to do more knowing its important to me. What I've said I will do, which I always would anyway is that if she initiates some kind of sexual touch but gets anxious about it, i will not pressure her and give her time. These revelations bring new light, and i don't want to be the a--hole. I still have needs though. It makes me wonder what other then killing her libido did this medication do .... I am assuming she still does not want to engage in social activities etc. I used to have some what would be categorized as social anxiety but at a certain point i saw that my always being Tired or busy to attend eventually ended up with no more invitations ... so i just forced myself to not fall back on the easy excuses to avoid things. I just listened to a ted talk on the subject of avoiding sex ... the person compared the situation like being invited to a party at the end of the week...... as the week goes on you think i do not really want to go not sure who will be at party... chit chat is boring and think up a reason to have excuse that you are tired from a long week etc....... NOW imagine you go meet or catch up with several friends and have a good time.... a really good time and you wonder why you did not accept more invitations for gatherings... Now the speaker said to apply this to sex ...... we may think of all that goes wrong or other issues we are thinking of ........ instead of laying naked with your partner even just in an embrace .... much like the party as you relax and enjoy the atmosphere ..... you may find you are in the mood and you DO enjoy the event.... |
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diode
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Post by diode on Mar 20, 2024 17:57:50 GMT -5
m76 , there is a searchable term, "hysterical bonding." It is a state of mind your wife is likely to go through once she realizes she is going to lose you, and if so she will become hypersexual and may actually enjoy her encounters. The bad news is, the emotion will fade as she gets comfortable and within three weeks or so she will be back in the same state of mind that has caused all this trouble in the first place. If I were you, and, yes, it happened to me, I would enjoy it, but not push for anything, and observe the cycle as it moves back to the normal nothing. With that confirmation, it will be time to prepare for that leaving thing. Yep, H attempted this when I told him that I could not be his wife. I felt differently than you ironhamster , by that point what I had longed for, for a good 15 years, felt pretty unwelcome and for the first time in a 23 year relationship, H got declined. We are all different and every situation is unique. I'm glad I kept reading (rather than immediately responding) after studying your post ironhamster. isthisit succinctly summed up some important points. The decision as to whether to indulge hinges on risk-management. If the relationship is already burnt and in the bin, then counter-refusal is an appropriate action leading up to the intended split. If "we're gonna give it one last try to see whether an enduring fix is afoot," then by all means giving it one's most ardent effort is appropriate. What I would not personally do would be to take any advantage of desperation-driven (or overtly manipulative) sexual overtures. I can only foresee unwanted complications arising therefrom. |
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Post by ironhamster on Mar 21, 2024 2:49:20 GMT -5
diode, I have no issue with that approach. I don't believe hysterical bonding is an act of desperation, or, at least, not on the conscious level of their being. I believe it is an honest reaction on the conscious level. Those refusers experiencing it can actually enjoy sex while in this state of mind. My wife was extremely enthusiastic the first three days. The problem is, this state of mind is very temporary. In three weeks she was back to disinterest.
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m76
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Post by m76 on Mar 25, 2024 7:12:10 GMT -5
So, another week of no physical intimacy even after she "heard" me. I'm going to have to be more direct, before I had said I don't want to be celibate. I just have to tell her directly I will not be celibate and it's up to her if she wants me to be with her.
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Post by worksforme2 on Mar 25, 2024 7:36:50 GMT -5
diode , I have no issue with that approach. I don't believe hysterical bonding is an act of desperation, or, at least, not on the conscious level of their being. I believe it is an honest reaction on the conscious level. Those refusers experiencing it can actually enjoy sex while in this state of mind. My wife was extremely enthusiastic the first three days. The problem is, this state of mind is very temporary. In three weeks she was back to disinterest. I want to agree histerical bonding isn't an always an act of desperation. Perhaps sometimes it is. Near the end of my SM I spoke several times to my W about me having a FWB. I went to some lengths to assure the W I wasn't looking to totally replace her, just needed a woman for intimacy. She instead reset me for roughly 3 months (3rd or 4th time) and then back to refusing. My W was also enthusiastic and readily orgasmed, but it didn't mean mush over the longer time frame. |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Mar 25, 2024 7:48:41 GMT -5
diode , I have no issue with that approach. I don't believe hysterical bonding is an act of desperation, or, at least, not on the conscious level of their being. I believe it is an honest reaction on the conscious level. Those refusers experiencing it can actually enjoy sex while in this state of mind. My wife was extremely enthusiastic the first three days. The problem is, this state of mind is very temporary. In three weeks she was back to disinterest. I want to agree histerical bonding isn't an always an act of desperation. Perhaps sometimes it is. Near the end of my SM I spoke several times to my W about me having a FWB. I went to some lenghts to assure the W I wasn't looking to totally replace her, just needed a woman for intimacy. She instead reset me for roughly 3 months (3rd or 4th time) and then back to refusing. My W was also enthusiastic and readily orgasmed, but it didn't mean mush over the longer time frame. I really don't get this. How can our spouses be so adverse to something that we know we both enjoy in the moment. Creates the intimate bonds and has so many other mental health benefits. My wife has also told me she always enjoyed it once we got going and we almost always both orgasmed. But now it's some kind of great hardship she's unwilling to endure even if it means me leaving her. I just don't get it man. |
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