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Post by mirrororchid on Feb 9, 2024 6:41:55 GMT -5
... I had a confidante who understood (even though he was more stuck than I was and stayed in) and he helped me believe I could do it and get through. Others use a counsellor, friend, sibling. Maybe try to think of someone you can rely on to be invisibly by your side to share the difficulties and encourage you to believe you can do it. This, and a wider circle of associates to fill time currently spent with the Mrs. The "social circle building" part of the SM countermeasures often suggested. Get your new life without Mrs. m76 started and at least a kernel to grow from. Obey the Baza and get some preliminary steps done in advance. Pulling the trigger can unleash chaos. It'll help if you have routines to carry you through, day to day and you'll be finishing what you started, rather than figuring everything out while perhaps experiencing new traumas never before encountered. As for Mrs. m76 enjoying sex early on and teh kissing? Passionate kissing can be a supreme boost to one's ego, in healthy ways and not. She can feel extremely desirable, and that can be gratifying, even if it can be diminished by teh thought that a husband is supposed to feel that way and it is taken for granted. Similarly, new relationship energy (NRE) and the "honeymoon phase" that lasts 3-4 years for women, 10 for men, if Esther Perel's research is to be trusted, there can be pleasure in the power to drive a partner to ecstasy. Such generosity and compersion can last beyond the honeymoon, but is likely entirely absent in sexless marriages. She may well have enjoyed lovemaking an enormous amount, maybe as much as you, but for different reasons. Even physical rapture may be diminished because of sex negativity. They may be okay with it as a gift but5 enjoying it makes them feel morally incorrect. Not sure what Mrs. m76's attitudes were, early on. |
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Post by worksforme2 on Feb 9, 2024 9:35:49 GMT -5
I'm like you m76 in thinking that the financial hit may not be so bad in comparison to the rest of my life without the sex and intimacy that I want. You don't really know what your W would do if you found a FWB or even a "pro" for some relief. Your income is the main source of money for her. She will not want to give up her lifestyle just so she can have her way deneying intimacy to you. Make her know that you intend to out her to her family, her friends and the church members. Perhaps knowing her behavior will become a topic of conversation for everyone she knows will be all that is required to impliment a "don't ask don't tell" agreement with her. Shame is a powerful arrow in your quiver of tools in a SM. Might be time to consider having her think you may be using that arrow soon. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Feb 12, 2024 7:02:35 GMT -5
I'm like you m76 in thinking that the financial hit may not be so bad in comparison to the rest of my life without the sex and intimacy that I want. You don't really know what your W would do if you found a FWB or even a "pro" for some relief. Your income is the main source of money for her. She will not want to give up her lifestyle just so she can have her way denying intimacy to you. Make her know that you intend to out her to her family, her friends and the church members. Perhaps knowing her behavior will become a topic of conversation for everyone she knows will be all that is required to implement a "don't ask don't tell" agreement with her. Shame is a powerful arrow in your quiver of tools in a SM. Might be time to consider having her think you may be using that arrow soon. It bears repeating here that I gave my wife warning I'd start dating with the intent to outsource in a couple months. No threat to talk to anyone about it. I said I was done being celibate and I hoped it was her I'd be intimate with. Some ILIASM member don't want that anymore, so different strokes for different folks. Public shaming is the weapon a "betrayed" spouse thinks they have. Worksforme2's threat is one I left for Mrs. Mirror Orchid to conclude on her own. I think our side is the more potent. If anyone asks "How could you do this to him/her?" The refuser is not going to like the truth being out there and a goodly bunch of people who do hear it will take your side. The refuser may lie about what you did, they might try to justify sexless marriage itself, or they could explain why an hour twice a month to keep marriage vows was too much to ask of them. This may even include stating legit complaints that they didn't see fit to share until there was adequate incentive. If there's anything you can learn from this too-late confession, you win in all four scenarios. |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Feb 12, 2024 18:34:23 GMT -5
This will be my last update for a while.
We had another councilling session where I brought up that kissing will not be enough for me in the long run.
With it having been so long since there was any kind of intimacy I'm giving her time to rediscover if she can reach any arousal with me at all. We're doing the dates and all the thoughtful gestures, etc.. and I'll continue to be engaged and help her but at some point if she won't have sex I'll move on. I don't have a timeline but it'll be clear when things aren't going to progress further. For now she is making the little efforts like reaching out to hug me or rub my back in bed.
Thank you to everyone on this forum for giving me a place to discuss my thoughts and be a sounding board. I've reached point that I'm at peace and know the path forward even if I don't have a specific time.
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Post by mirrororchid on Feb 12, 2024 20:12:09 GMT -5
This will be my last update for a while. We had another counselling session where I brought up that kissing will not be enough for me in the long run. With it having been so long since there was any kind of intimacy I'm giving her time to rediscover if she can reach any arousal with me at all. We're doing the dates and all the thoughtful gestures, etc.. and I'll continue to be engaged and help her but at some point if she won't have sex I'll move on. I don't have a timeline but it'll be clear when things aren't going to progress further. For now she is making the little efforts like reaching out to hug me or rub my back in bed. Thank you to everyone on this forum for giving me a place to discuss my thoughts and be a sounding board. I've reached point that I'm at peace and know the path forward even if I don't have a specific time. Look forward to hearing back, whatever happens, whenever you feel is a good time. |
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Post by lonelyhubby on Feb 13, 2024 8:04:43 GMT -5
As far as public shaming goes - if the wife doesn't seem to be able to recover - I absolutely will divorce her regardless of the financial ruin and child support cost - I will also most definitely tell everyone, including her family exactly what has been going on (or not going on) - because she relies on keeping this a little hidden secret.
EVERY - SINGLE - PERSON will know the "Why". She isn't ashamed to do it (or not do it to be exact) - then she shouldn't be ashamed for anyone to know.
Hopefully the marriage and sex therapist we start with next week, will be able to talk some sense into her Perimenopause skull - and at least get her to go see a specialist. The SM preceded the Perimenopause, so while hormones are now the giant challenge, her mental / emotional loss of libido is something a therapist is going to have to help her get past.
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Post by week5of35years on Feb 13, 2024 8:30:47 GMT -5
This will be my last update for a while. We had another councilling session where I brought up that kissing will not be enough for me in the long run. With it having been so long since there was any kind of intimacy I'm giving her time to rediscover if she can reach any arousal with me at all. We're doing the dates and all the thoughtful gestures, etc.. and I'll continue to be engaged and help her but at some point if she won't have sex I'll move on. I don't have a timeline but it'll be clear when things aren't going to progress further. For now she is making the little efforts like reaching out to hug me or rub my back in bed. Thank you to everyone on this forum for giving me a place to discuss my thoughts and be a sounding board. I've reached point that I'm at peace and know the path forward even if I don't have a specific time. good luck m76 |
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Post by worksforme2 on Feb 13, 2024 12:31:27 GMT -5
This will be my last update for a while. We had another councilling session where I brought up that kissing will not be enough for me in the long run. With it having been so long since there was any kind of intimacy I'm giving her time to rediscover if she can reach any arousal with me at all. We're doing the dates and all the thoughtful gestures, etc.. and I'll continue to be engaged and help her but at some point if she won't have sex I'll move on. I don't have a timeline but it'll be clear when things aren't going to progress further. For now she is making the little efforts like reaching out to hug me or rub my back in bed. Thank you to everyone on this forum for giving me a place to discuss my thoughts and be a sounding board. I've reached point that I'm at peace and know the path forward even if I don't have a specific time. Hoping for both of you that this works. But if it does'nt you can know that you went the extra mile for her. Best of luck to you... |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Feb 19, 2024 23:03:29 GMT -5
I'm going to cancel the councilling sessions. This morning I set a kissing date with my wife for tonight and she agreed. Tonight before our normal bedtime she started saying she was tired and going to bed early. So I went to bed before her. While she was scrolling on her phone I tried to initiate holding a couple of times and was ignored so I went to sleep. 2 hours later I woke up and she was still scrolling on her phone so I reached over again and was ignored. Started to drift off to sleep and she held me as the big spoon for a bit and then she went to sleep.
I don't understand what she's doing or why but I can't do this anymore.
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Post by DryCreek on Feb 19, 2024 23:58:50 GMT -5
I don't understand what she's doing or why but I can't do this anymore. I think you are finally accepting that the emperor has no clothes. She makes obvious excuses. And you preempt them instead of pretending to believe them. And, surprise, her claims turn out to be false. (I swallowed the excuses for a shameful number of years, so don’t feel too bad.) Her behaviors clearly demonstrate that she is unwilling to make the effort for you, but she still expects to take what she needs. If you have an extra bedroom, I’d suggest that sleeping apart is needed for her to realize that she won’t get her needs met if she ignores yours. And if you’re fed up enough, you should insist that she leaves the marital bed, not you. She can share your bed when she’s prepared to act like your wife, and you’re not going to put up appearances until then. If she can’t see the signs that this is the express lane to divorce, she’s dumber than a box of rocks. DC |
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Post by aquacat on Feb 20, 2024 12:02:14 GMT -5
It's as if you are describing my wife right there. We've set time aside for intimacy in the past and it always has to be right before bedtime. She will be laying there scrolling on her phone while I'm waiting and then she just turns the lights off and goes to sleep. Sometimes she will try to snuggle with me or hug me for a little then turn over and go to sleep. What irritates me is before she lays down she will tell me how tired she is. If she's so tired why does she spend 30+ minutes scrolling on her phone??
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Missingout
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Age Range: 46-50
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Post by Missingout on Feb 20, 2024 12:15:34 GMT -5
It's as if you are describing my wife right there. We've set time aside for intimacy in the past and it always has to be right before bedtime. She will be laying there scrolling on her phone while I'm waiting and then she just turns the lights off and goes to sleep. Sometimes she will try to snuggle with me or hug me for a little then turn over and go to sleep. What irritates me is before she lays down she will tell me how tired she is. If she's so tired why does she spend 30+ minutes scrolling on her phone?? Part of why chasing... 30 minutes when I only need 3 unless she wants to continue and doesn't ask are ya done yet 😉 Ask her that very question why she's so tired and continues to scroll. My wife throws it back at me like it's some kind of prize to be won for the amount of work I put in that day. I have come to find out it doesn't matter how much work you put in for the day.. moving goal posts,she just doesn't want to fuck. And I'm starting not to give a fuck. |
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Post by worksforme2 on Feb 20, 2024 12:20:26 GMT -5
The way a refusing spose seems to be tired immediately before sex is really selective. My X also was too tired on occassion. But she was never too tired to stay up late and watch a football game. Or to have a conversation with her daughter ( who was also at this time and may still be a refuser).
She was never too tired to forgo shopping or taking a weekend at a B&B out of state. Funny how wearyness can be so selective when it manifests itself.
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Post by week5of35years on Feb 26, 2024 7:00:23 GMT -5
I'm going to cancel the councilling sessions. This morning I set a kissing date with my wife for tonight and she agreed. Tonight before our normal bedtime she started saying she was tired and going to bed early. So I went to bed before her. While she was scrolling on her phone I tried to initiate holding a couple of times and was ignored so I went to sleep. 2 hours later I woke up and she was still scrolling on her phone so I reached over again and was ignored. Started to drift off to sleep and she held me as the big spoon for a bit and then she went to sleep. I don't understand what she's doing or why but I can't do this anymore. My W did this, but only one time, the next AM I properly hit the roof and did not/refused to let her come up with any bullshit excuses for her not going through with what she had agreed.... like some little kid who promises to eat their greens and then does not, and sulks about it and makes excuses... After a 3 day blow up... proper bad few days, she conceded she had done it on purpose and asked that if she did it again "on autopilot", I was to hold her to account immediately so we could discuss/get over it/get back on track etc etc. Big part of what I think has worked for me is just using that "adrenaline confrontation feeling" to out the issue immediately and tell her its not acceptable or what was agreed or what will fix things....rather than stewing over night/day/week and then "letting it go".... F that with a capital F. (PS- I also told my W she spent more time watching soap opera than even thinking about how to save our marriage and she needed to step the fuck up... m76 sounds like your W's thing is her damned phone...) |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Feb 26, 2024 7:11:11 GMT -5
I'm going to cancel the councilling sessions. This morning I set a kissing date with my wife for tonight and she agreed. Tonight before our normal bedtime she started saying she was tired and going to bed early. So I went to bed before her. While she was scrolling on her phone I tried to initiate holding a couple of times and was ignored so I went to sleep. 2 hours later I woke up and she was still scrolling on her phone so I reached over again and was ignored. Started to drift off to sleep and she held me as the big spoon for a bit and then she went to sleep. I don't understand what she's doing or why but I can't do this anymore. My W did this, but only one time, the next AM I properly hit the roof and did not/refused to let her come up with any bullshit excuses for her not going through with what she had agreed.... like some little kid who promises to eat their greens and then does not, and sulks about it and makes excuses... After a 3 day blow up... proper bad few days, she conceded she had done it on purpose and asked that if she did it again "on autopilot", I was to hold her to account immediately so we could discuss/get over it/get back on track etc etc. Big part of what I think has worked for me is just using that "adrenaline confrontation feeling" to out the issue immediately and tell her its not acceptable or what was agreed or what will fix things....rather than stewing over night/day/week and then "letting it go".... F that with a capital F. (PS- I also told my W she spent more time watching soap opera than even thinking about how to save our marriage and she needed to step the fuck up... m76 sounds like your W's thing is her damned phone...) I'm not going to fight her and guilt her into doing something she clearly doesn't want to. I've told her how important it is and how much I care about physical intimacy. At this point she's shown that what I want/need is not important to her. |
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