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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 25, 2024 21:07:13 GMT -5
We tell each other what we do not tell our spouses because we are heard here and we're told that what we wish isn't unreasonable. This, in most cases, has been ignored, criticized, or ridiculed by our refuser. In some instances, the refused has made the attempt, been hesitantly received, and compromises have been made. "The Talk" is the last attempt to do so by those out of hope.
m76 "For me the answer is easy. When I've tried to talk to my wife about sex I'm made to feel selfish and guilty since it's not something she wants therefore I'm only thinking about myself." Is it ever okay for you to "only think about yourself"? If you keep your lips zipped 28 days per month and bring it up twice, is that too much? I'd be asking out of cynical curiosity, not expectation of reason. Are there things you have zero interest in that she'd appreciate you indulging in? Antiquing? Visiting her mother? Yard work? Gardening? Afternoon tea? Foot rubs? Or must everything you do together always be only of mutual interest. Never a sacrifice made by either for the benefit of the other? That's more characteristic of a social club, rather than a marriage, or even a friendship. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 26, 2024 10:16:37 GMT -5
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m76
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Post by m76 on Jan 26, 2024 10:41:10 GMT -5
Link didn't work but I found the video. More tough truths there. This is relatable with my constant requests for more help around the house and my requests to just massage each other for the physical touch I need. The fact that she refuses even these minor requests make it clear she really doesn't have any respect for me. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 26, 2024 11:07:47 GMT -5
Link didn't work but I found the video. More tough truths there. This is relatable with my constant requests for more help around the house and my requests to just massage each other for the physical touch I need. The fact that she refuses even these minor requests make it clear she really doesn't have any respect for me. I deleted the link and was able to post the video! Where this video related to me is when I do get to speak to my children again, and they tell me " dad, you do seem to get mad and angry a lot". Seem too? A lot? mad and angry? Yet they can't give me examples? ( there mother has braiwashed their thoughts about me) So I give them examples with an explanation of what it's like being married to their mother for 20 yrs, and being constantly rejected and disrespected. Funny how much they agree that their mom'e favorite word is " No" and how mom never apologizes for anything, is always right, .etc... yet.... they stay with her out of fear and... she has the $$$!! There was also the built in " intruder - home invader" 13 yrs of her father living in the same house with us, constantly at every meal, every event, and seated in his chair looking out his door monitoring everyone's actions at the house, reporting back to the dictator wife (his daughter). A perfect example of triangulation. ( a good example of your invalidation) |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Jan 27, 2024 13:15:13 GMT -5
I had an epiphany today after watching some more YouTube videos. And once again it echos back to what more senior members have said to me when I first joined. I don't think the problem is that my wife doesn't want sex or is asexual as she claims. I emasculated myself by being the nice guy, taking care of food, cleaning, taking the kids around. I became something other then a husband. I became something else, something she doesn't need to chase or impress or doing anything for, I was always here for her and seemed to be a constant.
Since she no longer sees me as a sexual partner her desire and arousal is gone. Videos I've been watching say there's a 50/50 chance of turning this around but only if I stand up for myself and earn her respect again. You know what? I'm not going to play that game. I'm a nice guy, I'm not going to change wanting to do things for the person I love and I'm not going to beg for scrapes anymore. If she doesn't respect me enough to put any kind of effort into changing after I identified the problem, she's not the person I want to spend the time I have left on this world with.
Damn, that felt good to write down.
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Post by worksforme2 on Jan 27, 2024 15:41:01 GMT -5
I had an epiphany today after watching some more YouTube videos. And once again it echos back to what more senior members have said to me when I first joined. I don't think the problem is that my wife doesn't want sex or is asexual as she claims. I emasculated myself by being the nice guy, taking care of food, cleaning, taking the kids around. I became something other then a husband. I became something else, something she doesn't need to chase or impress or doing anything for, I was always here for her and seemed to be a constant. Since she no longer sees me as a sexual partner her desire and arousal is gone. Videos I've been watching say there's a 50/50 chance of turning this around but only if I stand up for myself and earn her respect again. You know what? I'm not going to play that game. I'm a nice guy, I'm not going to change wanting to do things for the person I love and I'm not going to beg for scrapes anymore. If she doesn't respect me enough to put any kind of effort into changing after I identified the problem, she's not the person I want to spend the time I have left on this world with. Damn, that felt good to write down. hhmmmm....The 1st response that comes to mind is "what is the definition of insanity"? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. But maybe I am missing something here. Explain to me how believing you know the "why" in your SM, you are going to continue being the same nice guy who engenders no respect and no desire on the part of his spouse. Doing the same thing over, unless you are accepting of the result. It may be mysogystic of me but I am of the opinion that most women are submissive in thier nature. There are exceptions of coarse, but painting with a broad brush I am going to stick with my story. And so my question to you is, how you are going to reclaim your masculinity if you don't make some changes? |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Jan 27, 2024 16:09:15 GMT -5
I had an epiphany today after watching some more YouTube videos. And once again it echos back to what more senior members have said to me when I first joined. I don't think the problem is that my wife doesn't want sex or is asexual as she claims. I emasculated myself by being the nice guy, taking care of food, cleaning, taking the kids around. I became something other then a husband. I became something else, something she doesn't need to chase or impress or doing anything for, I was always here for her and seemed to be a constant. Since she no longer sees me as a sexual partner her desire and arousal is gone. Videos I've been watching say there's a 50/50 chance of turning this around but only if I stand up for myself and earn her respect again. You know what? I'm not going to play that game. I'm a nice guy, I'm not going to change wanting to do things for the person I love and I'm not going to beg for scrapes anymore. If she doesn't respect me enough to put any kind of effort into changing after I identified the problem, she's not the person I want to spend the time I have left on this world with. Damn, that felt good to write down. hhmmmm....The 1st response that comes to mind is "what is the definition of insanity"? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. But maybe I am missing something here. Explain to me how believing you know the "why" in your SM, you are going to continue being the same nice guy who engenders no respect and no desire on the part of his spouse. Doing the same thing over, unless you are accepting of the result. It may be mysocstic of me but I am of the opinion that most women are submissive in thier nature. There are exceptions of coarse, but painting with a broad brush I am going to stick with my story. And so my question to you is, how you are going to reclaim your masculinity if you don't make some changes? That's a fair question, and maybe its too much to expect to find someone who appreciates a "nice guy". Sounds like my next journey may involve even more self discovery. Maybe once I'm out of my current situation my younger confidence will return. |
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Post by csl on Jan 28, 2024 8:02:36 GMT -5
Damn, that felt good to write down. hhmmmm....The 1st response that comes to mind is "what is the definition of insanity"? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Otherwise known as "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got." |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Jan 28, 2024 8:57:43 GMT -5
hhmmmm....The 1st response that comes to mind is "what is the definition of insanity"? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Otherwise known as "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got." I get what you guys are saying. But I don't think I can my make that change with my current wife. Having been friends since elementary school I know her pretty well. Asking her to do things will just make her push back and do even less. Maybe this would be easier with a younger girlfriend that would see me more as a mentor/provider. My wife is well educated and makes almost as much as me, so I'm neither of those things for her. One of the things she has mentioned a few times is that she wishes I would fight more. She grew up in a home where her mom and dad would yell at each other to settle arguments. I've always picked my battles, if something doesn't bother me much I let it go. So what she probably wants is someone more assertive. However she's very much into women's rights and talks a lot about toxic masculinity and how she appreciates that I'm a good guy. I guess she doesn't really respect me and sees me as pushover. I don't know if I can make that drastic of a change in our relationship after 24 years of her walking over me. I also don't know if I really want to now. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 28, 2024 22:04:33 GMT -5
Otherwise known as "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got." I get what you guys are saying. But I don't think I can my make that change with my current wife. I guess she doesn't really respect me and sees me as pushover. I don't know if I can make that drastic of a change in our relationship after 24 years of her walking over me. I also don't know if I really want to now. I'm going to say, that's the depression in you talking. Totally understandable, and many people who have come and gone on this forum have been/and are in your shoes. I'm hoping that in time ( anywhere from a season to a year) you can/will get the support you need and continue to turn things around for your own improvement. A divorce recovery group near you would be very good for you. You don't have to be divorced, or in the process of divorcing, but you already have all the makings for someone about to divorce and can benefit from a support group. |
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Post by aquacat on Jan 29, 2024 7:36:44 GMT -5
hhmmmm....The 1st response that comes to mind is "what is the definition of insanity"? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. But maybe I am missing something here. Explain to me how believing you know the "why" in your SM, you are going to continue being the same nice guy who engenders no respect and no desire on the part of his spouse. Doing the same thing over, unless you are accepting of the result. It may be mysocstic of me but I am of the opinion that most women are submissive in thier nature. There are exceptions of coarse, but painting with a broad brush I am going to stick with my story. And so my question to you is, how you are going to reclaim your masculinity if you don't make some changes? That's a fair question, and maybe its too much to expect to find someone who appreciates a "nice guy". Sounds like my next journey may involve even more self discovery. Maybe once I'm out of my current situation my younger confidence will return. I'm in the same boat with being a "nice guy" and I can tell my wife sees it too as she is doing similar things as your wife does to you. Would you consider your wife a gatekeeper when it comes to sex? Mine certainly is. If I tell her I want us to have sex she will either deny me or tell me yes but then later make an excuse for saying no, but when we do have sex it's because she suggests it "if you want to do it go shut the door". I'm so sorry you are going through this too. |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Jan 29, 2024 7:44:05 GMT -5
That's a fair question, and maybe its too much to expect to find someone who appreciates a "nice guy". Sounds like my next journey may involve even more self discovery. Maybe once I'm out of my current situation my younger confidence will return. I'm in the same boat with being a "nice guy" and I can tell my wife sees it too as she is doing similar things as your wife does to you. Would you consider your wife a gatekeeper when it comes to sex? Mine certainly is. If I tell her I want us to have sex she will either deny me or tell me yes but then later make an excuse for saying no, but when we do have sex it's because she suggests it "if you want to do it go shut the door". I'm so sorry you are going through this too. I'll answer that with my experience yesterday. She was up before me, I was still in bed. She came out of the bathroom dressed to go downstairs and I asked for a hug. She said no, she has a headache and went downstairs. There's not really any gatekeeping. The gate is locked and welded closed. |
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Post by csl on Jan 29, 2024 7:53:28 GMT -5
I'm in the same boat with being a "nice guy" and I can tell my wife sees it too as she is doing similar things as your wife does to you. Would you consider your wife a gatekeeper when it comes to sex? Mine certainly is. If I tell her I want us to have sex she will either deny me or tell me yes but then later make an excuse for saying no, but when we do have sex it's because she suggests it "if you want to do it go shut the door". I'm so sorry you are going through this too. I'll answer that with my experience yesterday. She was up before me, I was still in bed. She came out of the bathroom dressed to go downstairs and I asked for a hug. She said no, she has a headache and went downstairs. There's not really any gatekeeping. The gate is locked and welded closed. As I am wont to say, you will tolerate things until things become intolerable. Until you decide to do something, the status quo is what it is. How many more years? 5? 10? 20? |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Jan 29, 2024 11:26:39 GMT -5
I know I need to leave. I keep hoping that I'll get through to her somehow. But I also have a son that's got another year of high school and I don't want to disrupt his life that much. I just feel trapped. So I put on the mask in front of family and friends that everything is OK.
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Post by worksforme2 on Jan 29, 2024 12:13:16 GMT -5
I know I need to leave. I keep hoping that I'll get through to her somehow. But I also have a son that's got another year of high school and I don't want to disrupt his life that much. I just feel trapped. So I put on the mask in front of family and friends that everything is OK. OK, so it seems you can't leave at this time. But all is not lost. You son has another year in h.s. Use this time to make preparations to leave. Build up a support network. Save as much money as you can for a restart. Pay off as much debt that is in your name. In short, do whatever you can to facilitate your leaving as soon as possible. Do not, I repeat, do not give your W any notice of your intentions. Forwarning her gives her a change to make things difficult for you. |
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