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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 14, 2024 18:29:00 GMT -5
Little update. As part of my attempts to create more physical intimacy. I had asked a couple days ago if we could spend some time cuddling and massaging as she had previously agreed to. . So being the nice guy I am I ask to postpone to Saturday, she agrees. So, I get into bed she puts a pillow against me and leans into me while she reads. Later on I had said that it was nice but wasn't enough, I want her to touch me. I do want to commend you on your continues effort.. reflecting on my own experience of all the years of continues rejection , and how it killed any desire or attraction for my now ex "W" at the time we where married. I'll ask" do you think the desire (getting a lasting,sustainable erection) is going to happen while being with her? and the fear of walking on eggshells?" (many men/and women- figure out the sex is not going to work) This gives the abbreviation E.D. a new meaning :Emasculation Definition. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 15, 2024 6:57:43 GMT -5
aquacat, m76Do you both have a will? Everyone should and it's a very useful thing if ever there's a need to split assets that you already have a list of everything you know about. Like seeing a lawyer, you don't have to divorce just because you have the information handy. Disclaimer: I have not made a will, but I know I should.
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m76
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Post by m76 on Jan 22, 2024 8:58:25 GMT -5
So I don't know what to make of this situation except to think that my wife doesn't really care about me.
Last week we saw a couples councilor. The "homework" was to schedule some regular us time that would include physical contact. It could be something as simple as going for a walk and holding hands.
So far my wife's suggestions have been to go out for dinner or go bowling. Which we did, but there was no touching.
We had an unexpected free evening when my son was going to be out of the house so I suggested some cuddle time and she got angry because one of the therapist recommendations was that our "us" time be planned and this was not planned so we didn't do anything.
Going to bed last night my wife once again put her pillow up against me to lean on me while she read. That was the closest touching in a while.
So as much as I was hopeful for her to put in the effort with the therapist, I don't think she's really willing to make any changes.
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Post by worksforme2 on Jan 22, 2024 9:17:23 GMT -5
So as much as I was hopeful for her to put in the effort with the therapist, I don't think she's really willing to make any changes. It was when I came to the conclusion that my now X really did not love me that I knew we were headed for a seperation. During the times we had "talks" about the poor state of intimacy in the marriage I would say at some point to my then W that " I loved her". She never echoed that back to me. During our 5-6 yrs. of marriage i don't think she said she loved me more than a couple times. Funny that I did not key into this until I was done with trying to fix the sex. Later I thought of a # of her responses to my suggestions and wishes that i realized she wasn't making much effort. Her focus seemed to be on travel and finding things to do that others perhaps would envy when they heard it. I didn't realize that until I was some distance away from the marriage. You may be putting together the clues and actions on the part of your W that really define the state of your relationship, much faster than I did. Just remember, actions speak louder than words. Inactions speak even louder at times. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 22, 2024 10:18:29 GMT -5
So I don't know what to make of this situation except to think that my wife doesn't really care about me. Last week we saw a couples councilor. The "homework" was to schedule some regular us time that would include physical contact. It could be something as simple as going for a walk and holding hands. So far my wife's suggestions have been to go out for dinner or go bowling. Which we did, but there was no touching. We had an unexpected free evening when my son was going to be out of the house so I suggested some cuddle time and she got angry because one of the therapist recommendations was that our "us" time be planned and this was not planned so we didn't do anything. Going to bed last night my wife once again put her pillow up against me to lean on me while she read. That was the closest touching in a while. So as much as I was hopeful for her to put in the effort with the therapist, I don't think she's really willing to make any changes.
So as much as I was hopeful for her to put in the effort with the therapist, I don't think she's really willing to make any changes.
You are correct, your wife is not willing to make any changes. I can say this with 100% confidence based on my own experience of taking the same route with a therapist. Instead your wife is using your time and money with this therapist to buy herself more time,to stall,avoid, manipulate,and continue on her , one way street paved with double standards.Lets take your wife's lame convoluted, selfish,controlling, excuse of "us" time has to be planned or nothing happens? What if all your nothing time has to be " planned" or something - cuddle physical contact- happens? Why the double standard? My guess is she's putting that pillow between the two of you, like a wedge, and intentionally deflecting you away with her hands, eyes, mind,etc...on a book, so that You-- you- will be the one to leave the bed, leave the room, leave the marriage. Then she can blame you for it, even though she decided to detach herself from you ( and the marriage) years ago. My own ex W actually said in counselling "I detached myself from you years ago" and acts to this day quite proud of it, playing the victim. |
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Post by DryCreek on Jan 22, 2024 10:46:54 GMT -5
So I don't know what to make of this situation except to think that my wife doesn't really care about me. [...] So as much as I was hopeful for her to put in the effort with the therapist, I don't think she's really willing to make any changes.
First impressions from the outside... she's self-centered. Her mindset is to do the minimum necessary. To satisfy the therapist, not to improve the relationship.
That she would turn down a non-sexual opportunity suggests that she doesn't value it, and isn't really striving for the improvements that you hope for. Her later actions sound more like she just wants companionship. A warm body to validate / enhance her life, without much consideration of what the other person needs.
I may be projecting a bit because I've lived a similar scenario. She was happy to spend my income and take my companionship as long as she wasn't being inconvenienced.
There's no subtle way to express this to her, but does she think she can replace you with this level of effort? If she took half a minute to think about it, she'd realize that it's far easier to maintain her lifestyle by investing herself in you. It's an attitude that needs to be changed, and that might not happen until you've slammed the door behind you.
DC
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Post by isthisit on Jan 22, 2024 12:49:47 GMT -5
So I don't know what to make of this situation except to think that my wife doesn't really care about me. [...] So as much as I was hopeful for her to put in the effort with the therapist, I don't think she's really willing to make any changes.
First impressions from the outside... she's self-centered. Her mindset is to do the minimum necessary. To satisfy the therapist, not to improve the relationship.
That she would turn down a non-sexual opportunity suggests that she doesn't value it, and isn't really striving for the improvements that you hope for. Her later actions sound more like she just wants companionship. A warm body to validate / enhance her life, without much consideration of what the other person needs.
I may be projecting a bit because I've lived a similar scenario. She was happy to spend my income and take my companionship as long as she wasn't being inconvenienced.
There's no subtle way to express this to her, but does she think she can replace you with this level of effort? If she took half a minute to think about it, she'd realize that it's far easier to maintain her lifestyle by investing herself in you. It's an attitude that needs to be changed, and that might not happen until you've slammed the door behind you.
DC
is it me, or are you using the past tense there? |
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Post by csl on Jan 22, 2024 12:57:53 GMT -5
On October 16, you wrote: “ “So wife finally said to me today that as far as physical contact goes, she'd be willing to massage me. But she's planning this in a week from now when she gets back from a business trip.
That's it, that's what I have to look forward to for the rest of my life until she gets bored of that too. After telling her how much it hurts that we don't have sex I get to look forward to what will likely be a once a month massage.”
This isn't enough, this isn't what a marriage is supposed to be. Fml.”
It might be in it interesting intellectual exercise to have your counselor parse the difference between these incidents to see if any progress has been made. Or not.
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Post by warmways on Jan 22, 2024 20:48:07 GMT -5
I’m really sorry you’re going through this.
When I was married from 2001-2019, I experienced a very similar dynamic.
My ex husband and I sought help from a certified sex and marriage counselor, a family therapist as well as another LMFT (licensed marriage and family therapist). She spent time asking my ex how to work out technical issues she was having in her MacBook during some of the last few minutes of our sessions. He pretended - they all believed him or just kind of gave up on him. We had one therapist who was excellent. He saw my struggle. Problem was that my ex wouldn’t and couldn’t and didn’t want to change.
I’m going off topic.
As others may do I may be projecting onto you what I felt but the sad truth is: she - will - never - change.
It’s cruel to make a person have false hope.
What may be helpful for you is to focus your time and energy on little and bigger ways to make you feel a little better. For me I got a huge stuffed animal that helped during years of abject rejection and cold silence. I had cats! I slowly built myself up. I learned to back away from his anger and coldness and not react so I could begin to think about how to get out.
Moving into the guest bedroom was the best because I could make it my own space and create needed distance to heal / cry.
I slowly (it’s a miracle I ever had the guts to leave) - healed while living with him. The truth is that it will be hard but it will be so worth it when and if you do leave.
This site and so many people here helped me immensely. Find sources like this and take care of you and your son first.
Wishing you all the best. 💛
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Post by DryCreek on Jan 22, 2024 23:25:03 GMT -5
DryCreek is it me, or are you using the past tense there?
I do not yet have a new story to share... ;-) Keeping my head down and barrelling forward!
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m76
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Post by m76 on Jan 23, 2024 8:15:45 GMT -5
I’m really sorry you’re going through this. When I was married from 2001-2019, I experienced a very similar dynamic. My ex husband and I sought help from a certified sex and marriage counselor, a family therapist as well as another LMFT (licensed marriage and family therapist). She spent time asking my ex how to work out technical issues she was having in her MacBook during some of the last few minutes of our sessions. He pretended - they all believed him or just kind of gave up on him. We had one therapist who was excellent. He saw my struggle. Problem was that my ex wouldn’t and couldn’t and didn’t want to change. I’m going off topic. As others may do I may be projecting onto you what I felt but the sad truth is: she - will - never - change. It’s cruel to make a person have false hope. What may be helpful for you is to focus your time and energy on little and bigger ways to make you feel a little better. For me I got a huge stuffed animal that helped during years of abject rejection and cold silence. I had cats! I slowly built myself up. I learned to back away from his anger and coldness and not react so I could begin to think about how to get out. Moving into the guest bedroom was the best because I could make it my own space and create needed distance to heal / cry. I slowly (it’s a miracle I ever had the guts to leave) - healed while living with him. The truth is that it will be hard but it will be so worth it when and if you do leave. This site and so many people here helped me immensely. Find sources like this and take care of you and your son first. Wishing you all the best. 💛 Thank you  I'm slowly coming to the realization that even by some chance she does touch me, it will always be a chore and not something she really wants. |
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Post by worksforme2 on Jan 23, 2024 8:57:02 GMT -5
Thank you it will always be a chore and not something she really wants. My X was actually honest when speaking about sex the final year we were together. When I ask how she felt about intimacy in our marriage, she answered and depicted it as a chore. It was just "one more thing she had to do". It reads like your W is of the same mindset. She hasn't vocalized it to you yet, but I'd bet a dollar in the dark that is what is going on in her head. |
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Post by warmways on Jan 23, 2024 22:24:50 GMT -5
Exactly.
And who wants to be just a chore to be checked off?
We are worthy of respect. And we all know that. It just is such a maze to get out of it.
You will.
Best way for me was to inch along slowly. Everyone takes as long as they need to and sometimes the choice is staying. It is what works for you and only you will be able to know that.
Keep following your own heart. You got this. It will be hard—but you have the support on here.
I know it’s a true miracle I got out. I backed out. I had so many people asking me to leave. I had to turn over every stone again and again and again.
If I stayed I don’t think I’d be able to have had the ability to be happy again. Tiny fleeting moments (maybe) but those moments were still clouded by the knowledge I was stuck.
Good luck….. 🍀
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 23, 2024 22:39:17 GMT -5
It’s cruel to make a person have false hope. What may be helpful for you is to focus your time and energy on little and bigger ways to make you feel a little better. Thank you I'm slowly coming to the realization that even by some chance she does touch me, it will always be a chore and not something she really wants. I'm glad that you are making slow progress! Slow? Yes! Slow progress. What has taken years to develop, has given you years of trauma and years of a damaged, almost annihilated sense of self worth... A quick recovery would be a band aid approach at best. Healing,rebuilding takes years to unravel and rediscover your self again!Her problems, narcissism, asexuality, and who knows what else? Are just that..... Her problems! Start small like warmways@ suggested. My first post on this site was 8 yrs. ago... the healing, self esteem, and rediscovery of myself,... S L O W L Y continues. ( How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time!) |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 24, 2024 8:41:46 GMT -5
I'm so confused. My wife never even touches me or kisses me. And since we talked about the issues and we each started seeing councilors we haven't so much as hugged. She continues day to day like everything is good even though she hasn't even attempted any of the "homework" from her own councilor and stopped seeing them after 2 appointments. Meanwhile I'm in a haze day to day just trying to make it past Christmas. This morning for the first time in years, not in front of anyone, she stroked my beard and kissed me. Its like feeding crumbs to a starving man, just reminding him how hungry he is. Why do narcissists avoid kissing their partners? Narcissists do not enjoy kissing as much as most people do, because they lack empathy and the ability to genuinely feel. Kissing is an intimate act that requires emotional connection and vulnerability, which narcissists avoid Narcissists kiss only to fulfill their own needs, such as getting attention, admiration, or validation from their partners. They do not kiss to express love, affection, or care for their partners. Kissing is a means to an end for them, not an end in itself Narcissists may have an aversion to kissing due to their fear of intimacy and rejection. They may feel insecure or threatened by the closeness and intimacy that kissing entails. They may also fear that their partners will see through their false self and reject them for who they really are Narcissists may avoid kissing because they are bored or dissatisfied with their partners. They may lose interest in their partners after the initial phase of attraction and idealization. They may also seek novelty and excitement from other sources, such as new or multiple partners, and neglect or devalue their current ones |
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